Topic: N64, DS Games Coming to Wii U Virtual Console

[broodwars]

DK64! I didn't think I'd ever see the day! As much as I loath this game in my memories I am going to get this and see if I dislike it as much as I think I do.

The game has its issues, but I remember the boss fights being superb and the mine cart stages being some of the best in the series.  Plus, we don't get exploration-based 3D platformers anymore, especially since Nintendo abandoned them with Mario Galaxy.

[Caterkiller]

DK64! I didn't think I'd ever see the day! As much as I loath this game in my memories I am going to get this and see if I dislike it as much as I think I do.

The game has its issues, but I remember the boss fights being superb and the mine cart stages being some of the best in the series.  Plus, we don't get exploration-based 3D platformers anymore, especially since Nintendo abandoned them with Mario Galaxy.

I don't disagree. I think I was in the 8th grade when this came out, maybe 7th but I remember playing the game and enjoying it but I also remember my cousin and I sitting around playing a 2nd play through and we both out of the blue just said something like "I never really liked this game."

I love the DK series to absolute death and DK is my main in Smash Bros. Believe it or not I refuse to use Diddy in Smash because I loath the fact that the peanut pop gun and jet pack originated in DK64. Retro made them more excusable so I've begun to accept them but Smash Wii U and 3DS still use the 64 Rocket Barrel design and it once again pisses me off. Silly I know, but I can't change the way I feel.

Aside from having to collect all them bananas I think the one thing that really irked me about DK64 was it's tone. Now I'm not the type who needs to look into things as being something deep or dark that only the mature can accept but the first 3 Country titles had an eerie realistic and seriousness to them. With each game the characters got a little sillier and they always popped their eyes and such but DK64 felt like Banjo Kazooie to me. The music, characterization, sound affects, and well everything just seemed so silly to me! Sure DK punched the moon in Returns but that was serious business! Even with Jungle Beats random jelly kingdom that game was serious business all day ere day!!

Dk 64 turned the massive DK isle into that little rock. The ambient noises from the Country titles turned into story book Banjo Kazooie songs. They weren't bad but just didn't fit for me. The humor was really bad for me unlike every other Rare game before and after it.

But I tell you what angered me more than anything after I finally beat the game 102% or 201% or what ever it was. I realized Dixie wasn't mentioned in the game at all! Only the blasted manual! What an F U to fans who loved Dixie but got her stinky little sister instead! A character who was designed and functioned in almost the exact same way as Dixie! Same almost goes for Kiddy but I was never attached to him! I mean why was Dixie not in the game? Why did Rare have to go all Sonic Team and invent Tiny! With a full on outfit as well. Take half of those clothes off and go climb some trees!

Luckily with Tropical Freeze the sins of the paste were vanquished.

[azeke]

..the first 3 Country titles had an eerie realistic and seriousness to them...

wat

[Soren]

Playing through Mario 64 for the first time in over a decade.

Holy crap the camera is worse than I remembered.

[Caterkiller]

..the first 3 Country titles had an eerie realistic and seriousness to them...

wat

They did! I don't just mean the visuals either. I think it was mostly the music. Sure it was about primates looking for bananas but the ambient music and the setting gave it a creepy realism. The kong's looking for bananas was serious business I tell you! In DK64 everything was joke.

[ejamer]

...
So while an N64 could be ported to the 3DS with vastly superior graphics, actual emulation of the original is out of reach.
...

Super Mario 64 ds, Ocarina of time, Majora's mask?
r u Serious?



So yeah, question answered before it was asked.
(Porting a game to a new platform is different than trying to emulate it.)


I'm not suggesting that 3DS couldn't emulate N64 games. I have no idea how true that claim is. But pointing to improved ports as "proof" that it could be done isn't valid.

[Khushrenada]

I get what you mean. DK64 has a weird tone and feel to it compared to the DKC games. It has some similarities to the titles but the shift to 3D creates some different gameplay from what came before. I get what you mean as well about the graphics. With the 2D rendering, it had a bit more detail and realistic look but with the blocky 64 polygons, it's a more cartoonish look. Just compare the way a regular green Kremling looks in DKC and how it looks in DK64.

My biggest gripe with the game is that the later levels aren't as compelling as the earlier levels. The jungle level, the desert level and the always popular factory are ones I always enjoy visiting. But then you get the ship graveyard, the fungi forest and the crystal caves and I always find those levels a bit of a slog. Gloomy Galleon just sort of depresses me because of the atmosphere and look of it but at least it fits the tone of past DKC games. Fungi Forest however feels like it belongs in a different game. Every time I've played it, I always though that this isn't Donkey Kong. Nothing about seems right for the Donkey Kong world. Plus, you play a lot of that level at night as well. Then you hit Crystal Caves and it's a lot more darkness. Moreover, I find crystal caves the least interesting world to explore. It's a pretty boring place. However, things pick up with the haunted castle world and then it is the raid to stop K. Rool's laser and end the game.

I think that middle portion though is part of why DK64 is often criticised. When the worlds become uninteresting, then all you're doing is playing them to get through and that's when you recognize how much you are trying to collect items to get through the world and onto the next. I don't mind playing the other 4 worlds and exploring them so finding items isn't really a chore but more of a reward for exploration. In those other 3 worlds, it's just a job to get done.

[Ian Sane]

DK64 is just taking that "collect stuff" design of 3D platformers to an insane degree where the game no longer is fun.  It's hubris.  Rare was trying to make the most ambitious and huge 3D platformer and it ended up just making the game feel bloated.  Still, I'll appreciate a game that tries to be ambitious and fails than a game like the DS NSMB which seems to not try anything ambitious at all and ends up dull.  DK64 is like if you have a Pokémon game where you had to catch 10000 Pokémon.  In theory bigger is better but if you made it that big it would become a chore to finish.

Having DS games on the VC is like getting the DS Player, except in a way that strongly favours the publisher since you have to rebuy the game to play it on the TV.  I love the Super Gameboy and GB Player but they're actually kind of dumb ideas from a corporate perspective.  "Hey let's provide a cheaper way for a console owner to play our handheld games!"  I guess the theory is that it would increase game sales by allowing SNES/Cube owners to have access to the handheld library but if I'm so interested in handheld games wouldn't it be better if I buy the more expensive handheld?  And if I own both systems and want to play my handheld games on the TV isn't it better for the company if I have to buy two copies to do it?

Though a real DS Player that accepts my existing DS cartridges would probably get a Wii U purchase out of me.  Right now I figure any DS game that would actually end up on the VC that I would like to play is one I already own a physical copy of and I don't care enough about TV play to buy it again.

And do they sell digital copies of DS games on the 3DS?  Is there any reason not to now?  You're doing it on the Wii U so why wouldn't you do it on the 3DS as well?  It doesn't even need emulation then because the 3DS has the hardware to play the games.

[ThePerm]

There's no way the 3DS can handle N64 games.  The system's just not close to powerful enough to emulate the N64 CPU.  (Make no mistake--VC games use software emulation of the original hardware running the original code, which is why no SuperFX games like Star Fox are available: it's a separate in-cart CPU and no one wants to worry about the sync issues).

So while an N64 could be ported to the 3DS with vastly superior graphics, actual emulation of the original is out of reach.

I'm surprised they don't have classic DS titles on the 3DS Virtual Console, to be honest.  I can only imagine it's a memory mapping issue.  (They could offer them as "Virtual Consoles" or not, but I think eShop access would be a boon.)

My computer from 2001 could emulate n64 games, upscaled at 1024x768.

I've seen amazing looking games on 3ds, im pretty sure it has a better processor/dedicated graphics chip than my computer from 2001(which was older than that)

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project64

[Ian Sane]

I think the simplest explanation for no N64 VC on the DS is that full priced retail remakes like Star Fox 64 and the N64 Zeldas sold well.  Why have an N64 VC that sells these games for a couple of bucks when Nintendo can sell full priced remakes and make more money?  The ports provide a reason for the VC not be done.

[Khushrenada]

DK64 is just taking that "collect stuff" design of 3D platformers to an insane degree where the game no longer is fun.  It's hubris.  Rare was trying to make the most ambitious and huge 3D platformer and it ended up just making the game feel bloated.  Still, I'll appreciate a game that tries to be ambitious and fails than a game like the DS NSMB which seems to not try anything ambitious at all and ends up dull.  DK64 is like if you have a Pokémon game where you had to catch 10000 Pokémon.  In theory bigger is better but if you made it that big it would become a chore to finish.

Perhaps. I think part of it is also the game design philosophy at the time. It was all about creating huge worlds to explore. However, you also need something in them. A common criticism of OoT was how barren Hyrule Field could feel. Rare made these large vistas but then used collectables to give them purpose. Aside from open world games nowadays which are full sidequests to give you a reason to explore around, a lot games are built with smaller world and levels. I would cite Mario Galaxy as an example of this. Heck, even Sunshine had smaller worlds and levels than what had appeared in Super Mario 64.

Having DS games on the VC is like getting the DS Player, except in a way that strongly favours the publisher since you have to rebuy the game to play it on the TV.  I love the Super Gameboy and GB Player but they're actually kind of dumb ideas from a corporate perspective.  "Hey let's provide a cheaper way for a console owner to play our handheld games!"  I guess the theory is that it would increase game sales by allowing SNES/Cube owners to have access to the handheld library but if I'm so interested in handheld games wouldn't it be better if I buy the more expensive handheld?

I see it as a trade off. Buying it for a console means it isn't portable which is or used to be a big reason to buy a handheld in the first place. Besides, pretty sure that Nintendo makes more money on software sales than hardware so if it increases the number of software sales to provide the console add-on, then it's still a smart business decision. And there's always that chance that people will buy both anyways to have the portability and home console experiences.

Though a real DS Player that accepts my existing DS cartridges would probably get a Wii U purchase out of me.  Right now I figure any DS game that would actually end up on the VC that I would like to play is one I already own a physical copy of and I don't care enough about TV play to buy it again.

Probably not going to happen. Looks like VC is the way things are going now. The Wii U is backwards compatible but Nintendo's started offering VC Wii games on it now also. Re-selling software is the name of the game.

And do they sell digital copies of DS games on the 3DS?  Is there any reason not to now?  You're doing it on the Wii U so why wouldn't you do it on the 3DS as well?  It doesn't even need emulation then because the 3DS has the hardware to play the games.

No digital copies. Perhaps we will see it in the future considering VC Wii games are on the Wii U despite the fact it can play Wii games so it would be the same situation to offer VC DS games on the 3DS. I suspect it is just a case of trying to make the Wii U more appealing and boost sales by being able to offer VC DS games on it right now instead of offering them on the 3DS as well.

[Mop it up]

My computer from 2001 could emulate n64 games, upscaled at 1024x768.

I've seen amazing looking games on 3ds, im pretty sure it has a better processor/dedicated graphics chip than my computer from 2001(which was older than that)

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project64

My computer from 1998 has a faster CPU and more RAM than the 3DS does, so I'd be willing to bet your computer also does.

Either way though, since Nintendo is charging money for these N64 games then they need to run perfectly, as if playing an actual N64. This takes quite a bit of resources to achieve, and so I really don't think the 3DS has the juice for it as its CPU has a pretty low clock speed. I've used Project64 and even on my current computer, it has some hiccups and weirdness that an actual N64 does not. Nintendo's emulators run better.

[ThePerm]

i think Iansanes reason is more logical. They would be better served making upgraded ports than emulating. As far as emulating goes. I think its easily possible. I have an Ouya and Mario 64 looks great on it. On wii u, it doesnt look as good, but the controlls are far better on wii u.

[Wah]

I feel like I am the only one who loved Yoshi's Touch and Go. I do understand the sentiment that there wasn't enough meat to the game. Still I was addicted and very disappointed I couldn't find enough people to rival me in scores.


DK64! I didn't think I'd ever see the day! As much as I loath this game in my memories I am going to get this and see if I dislike it as much as I think I do.

Touch and go?
Geez, your making this to easy..