Topic: Sega to Scale Back M-Rated Wii Games

[NWR_DrewMG]

Sega Studio Director Constantine Hantzopoulos gives his thoughts on the market for Mature-rated games on the Wii.
 http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=20684

 Sega Studio Director Constantine Hantzopoulos said recently on a podcast from 1up.com that the developer would be unlikely to produce mature-rated titles for Wii in the future.  While acknowledging that two of their recently released Sega titles, House of the Dead: Overkill and MadWorld, were going to meet expected sales figures, Hantzopoulos cited Dead Space Extraction as an example of a Mature-rated Wii game from a major publisher, EA, with a strong marketing push that was unable to sell strongly.  Dead Space Extraction sold only 9000 copies in its release month of September 2009.    

Hantzopoulos said, "But that begs the question, are we going to do more mature titles for the Wii? And it's like, probably not. Look at Dead Space. We were stunned. That was my litmus test. Basically, it's like, okay, you got EA, who can put all the marketing muscle behind this, an established franchise that scored quite well on 360 and PS3. They should be able to actually hit this out of the park, right? We get numbers, real numbers aside from NPD, and I'm like, 'Woah'."      

Adding his thoughts on the differences between Nintendo's platforms and other consoles, Hantzopoulos added "Conduit's done quite well for us. It's been slow burn. That's the other thing you find out about the Wii. It's not necessarily first three weeks like most titles.  And DS.  It's a longer burn, actually."    

In an interview last August with Wired, Sega President and COO Mike Hayes had stated that it would be arrogant for Sega to pull out of the market for Mature-rated games on Wii.  Hayes said "Sega would be extremely arrogant to have a title that didn't do as well as we thought on a platform and then say, 'Those kind of games don't sell on that platform.'"

[BlackNMild2k1]

Hantzopoulos said, "But that begs the question, are we going to do more mature titles for the Wii? And it's like, probably not. Look at Dead Space. We were stunned. That was my litmus test. Basically, it's like, okay, you got EA, who can put all the marketing muscle behind this, an established franchise that scored quite well on 360 and PS3. They should be able to actually hit this out of the park, right? We get numbers, real numbers aside from NPD, and I'm like, 'Woah'."

 
They forgot the part where EA didn't actually put any marketing muscle behind this other than the initial announcement.

[Flames_of_chaos]

Dead Space Extraction is a terrible barometer for deciding if Mature games sell on Wii. Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles and Darkside Chronicles stomped Dead Space Extraction on Wii. While Resident Evil 5 on PS3 and 360 stomped Dead Space 1 on PS3 and 360. Also there was numerous mature titles on Wii that received a lot of success, and generally the companies supported those titles well or in some cases has a strong brand attached to it.

Dead Space isn't an established franchise since there was only two games released in the series with a third game coming up and a straight to video product. Resident Evil is more than ten years old, has many games across many formats and many movie products.

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

  They forgot the part where EA didn't actually put any marketing muscle behind this other than the initial announcement.

You beat me to it. EA and Visceral didn't make any substantive attempt to let people know that Dead Space: Extraction was there. Well, there's that, and it's in a niche genre.

Speaking of niche, that's exactly what both Madworld and House of the Dead: Overkill is catering to. Developers don't appear to be able to understand that a mature game doesn't sell solely on the fact that it has mature content. The audience that Madworld & HotD are aimed towards is the audience who tune into the reception surrounding games and they know that these two games are short, shallow experiences that if you would rent if you really wanted to try them.

Any company who uses this as an indication of how these games sell is missing the point. Sega seems to assume there's no audience for these games, but really it's the fact that these "litmus test" titles were extremely niche and poorly marketed.
 

[BlackNMild2k1]

It seems like 3rd party publishers are a lot like women when it comes to the Wii*.

Conducting all these secret little test that we didn't know we were taking and were designed for us to fail. We will never win because even if we do pass one of the stupid little test there will always be another one to take it's place.



*any jokes or puns that can be made from that statement are intended

[NWR_DrewMG]

Lucasz, if your argument for DS:E not being a good barometer has to do with the visibility of the franchise, then I would argue that DS:E does provide a barometer for whether a new IP Mature-rated game could sell on the Wii.  And say what you will about the marketing of the game, but if you look at the other games on the top 20 for September 2009, I see plenty of games that I don't remember seeing any marketing for.  Most of them are parts of established franchises, but it's not like Dead Space was a no-name series. 

In October 2009, Demon Souls for PS3 made the top 20, and I've to this day never seen a single advertisement for it.  Same goes with Borderlands.   On the HD systems, these types of games tend to sell more than 9000 copies without any more help than EA gave DS:E.

I know it's in vogue to say that these publishers put M-rated games out on the Wii to die, but there have been enough now that haven't done particularly great that I think it's time we looked at alternative explanations: the Wii userbase doesn't really care about them.

[BlackNMild2k1]

say what you will about the marketing of the game...  but it's not like Dead Space was a no-name series.

To Wii owners, Dead Space IS a no-name series.

To most PS360 owners Dead space is a no-name franchise.
The game sold barely over 1 mill over both versions WW last I heard and the movie was straight to DVD and practically unheard of. In fact, it was barely what one would consider a series until the 2nd game came out and they didn't even advertise it.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"but there have been enough now that haven't done particularly great"

And there have been enough to know they haven't be made to be particularly great.  The Wii userbase isn't particularly oblivious.  This is the alternative explanation.

[NWR_Neal]

The Conduit and other Mature Sega titles are more comparable to Dead Space than Resident Evil.

Resident Evil is a big, established powerhouse. The kind of Mature games Sega brought to Wii and might (not) bring to the system in the future are more in line with the kind of game that Dead Space, not Resident Evil.

Capcom could fart a RE game out on Wii and it'd sell better than The Conduit and Dead Space: Extraction combined.

[Flames_of_chaos]

In October 2009, Demon Souls for PS3 made the top 20, and I've to this day never seen a single advertisement for it.  Same goes with Borderlands.   On the HD systems, these types of games tend to sell more than 9000 copies without any more help than EA gave DS:E.

Atlus never  airs any ads on TV, they may occasionally do some magazine advertisements.  Atlus primarily relies on email ads, PR to gaming media, word of mouth (just ask Lindy ), and occasionally online ads (I've seen a few of them). While Atlus is still considered a niche publisher they do have a strong following and fanbase, strong enough that the company can simply thrive with fan support.

Atlus also has a tendency to hook players with their spoils promotions where they add in a free goodies such as soundtracks and art books in the pre-order copies or the first print runs.  For Demon's Souls, Atlus included a bonus of a free art book and soundtrack, players also had an option to purchase a deluxe edition for $10 more which included a  comprehensive strategy guide and came with a nifty embossed case that housed both the game and the strategy guide.

You never saw ads for Borderland?! I saw plenty of them on TV and online. While I'm not a big fan of Take 2, they are pretty good with advertising stuff especially their big titles and practically anything from Rockstar Games.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Advertising for Borderlands was all over TV so I'm not sure how you missed it.

[NWR_DrewMG]

I guess I do most of my TV watching these days on Hulu via PlayOn, so it's possible that I'm just completely out of touch on what's being advertised.  I would say, however, that running ads on TV is only a very small part of what makes effective advertising.  A better way of advertising, in my opinion, is talking with sites like ours, and the major gaming blogs, so they will run news stories about your game to keep your game in the public mindshare leading up to release.  I remember reading lots of stories about Dead Space: Extraction in the months leading up to it's release.  Likewise, I remember thinking very little about Borderlands until it was pretty much on the store shelves. 

[Stratos]

I saw plenty of ads for Borderlands as well on both the internet and TV.

Hantzopoulos cited Dead Space Extraction as an example of a Mature-rated Wii game from a major publisher, EA, with a strong marketing push that was unable to sell strongly.  Dead Space Extraction sold only 9000 copies in its release month of September 2009.   
Adding his thoughts on the differences between Nintendo's platforms and other consoles, Hantzopoulos added "Conduit's done quite well for us. It's been slow burn. That's the other thing you find out about the Wii. It's not necessarily first three weeks like most titles.  And DS.  It's a longer burn, actually."   

It's also kinda ridiculous to talk about first month sales being poor being such a big deal then going on about your own titles having slow burn sales.

[ShyGuy]

Dead Space Extraction was on rails. That is the number one factor.


edit:Wait, does this mean Sega isn't publishing The Grinder?

[decoyman]

Sorry, guy-from-Sega, but you're over-reaching.

Sure, video game fans finally revolted commercially at "YET ANOTHER RAILS SHOOTER FROM A RESPECTED FRANCHISE WHOSE ROOTS ARE MILES FROM A RAILS SHOOTER." But you're surprised at that? And further, you're drawing the conclusion that M-Rated games don't sell based on that, EVEN THOUGH you have evidence to the contrary FROM YOUR VERY OWN COMPANY???

My good fellow, I regret to inform you that, unfortunately but unequivocally... you are an utter nincompoop.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Let's hope someone at Sega has to eat their words and The Grinder still has a publisher in Sega.

Last report on the Conduit, I think it was around 400-450k sold iirc, so If Sega is putting little of their own cash to publish and advertise(HVS is/was developing all on their own cash), then they should be happy with the sales.

[Stratos]

Studio Director versus COO: I think a COO's comments hold more weight even if they are a few months old. Or am I misunderstanding what their positions are in the company.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

If he's not Yuji Nakanakanakakano, why report on this guy?

"Sega Studio Director Constantine Hantzopoulos said recently on a podcast from 1up.com"

So did 1up get in touch with this guy in hopes of generating anti-Wii news from a Wii "supporter"?

[KDR_11k]

Oh noes, shoddy games aimed at a niche audience fail! Who would've thought! Everybody always points at garbage like The Conduit while ignoring the sales of the Call of Duty games on the Wii.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Let's NOT point at CoD Wii games, at all.

They're just gonna conclude

1)  Old quickie cash-in ports are still OK
2)  WWII shooters are best for success

[NWR_DrewMG]

Well, if they sell then it's clearly what the customers want.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

And since there aren't more of them, it's clear the other companies don't "get this" either.

[Peachylala]

Oh noes, shoddy games aimed at a niche audience fail! Who would've thought! Everybody always points at garbage like The Conduit while ignoring the sales of the Call of Duty games on the Wii.

Seriously, does this surprise us anymore? The Sega guy's comments just make me face palm.

[King of Twitch]

Well that's odd. Sega is usually known for hanging in there, staying the course, and fighting through the hard times.

[Urkel]

In October 2009, Demon Souls for PS3 made the top 20

Not a rail-shooter.
 

 Same goes with Borderlands.

Not a rail-shooter.
 

 On the HD systems, these types of games tend to sell more than 9000 copies without any more help than EA gave DS:E.

Those games are nothing like DSE. "Mature" is not a genre.
 

 the 80% of the people out there who go out and buy a Wii box are happy with Wii Sports and they don’t really need another game.

From the Constantine Hanztopomassina guy. Factually inaccurate considering the tie-ratio for Wii is something like 6 or 7 games per console. Either that, or he's admitting the other 20% on Wii is the most hardcore audience out there to buy so many games to make up the rest of the sales.