Topic: Adult content in videogames bordering on exploitation of disasters

[Gamebasher]

Good-day young Gamecube Knights.

I went over on my favourite alternative gamenews website, Gamesindustry.biz, and here I found a most interesting editorial: "Opinion: Bad News shouldn't be Fair Game for entertainment" written by a Rob Fahey on April 22. this year.

His editorial argues that even though recent conflicts around the world, provide rich opportunity for developers to find inspiration for the content in their games, developers should perhaps think more closely about the moral implications of turning tragic events into entertainment!

He writes that the developers of such games, with such themes, often walk a fine line when it comes to good taste. He says that it´s obvious that if a game or any other media product adressing recent worldevents stand out having a certain topical appeal which can help boost sales. And that recent historical conflicts which actual people have lived through (my comment: and who may still be alive today) and still hold strong opinions on also is a potential minefield in terms of taste and tact. He includes that naturally time changes things, heals wounds, so that nobody is likely to take offense at in-game portrayal of events from hundreds of years ago.

But as he then points out, even this week there are games being released based on the events in Afghanistan and Iraq and that both topics are still raw in the minds of many people as they are conflicts where still many people are dying and families grieving. He lists developer Pivotals Conflict Desert Storm II: Back to Baghdad and developer EA´s Command & Conquer: generals about a fantasy war between Arab terrorists and US troops.

He concludes that we need to ask ourselves if it is justifiable to take such kinds of events and turn them into entertainment for an audience made up of teenage boys and young men. He ends by saying that the videogamesindustry is an entertainment industry and that all kinds of cultural and historical sources are used as entertainment concepts, but that sometimes developers and publishers need to stop and think carefully about the consequences of turning real life events and real world actual tremendous suffering into shoot´em up entertainment!!

Personally I couldn´t agree more! That´s why I never play anything other than Nintendo games, and a few select 2. party (METROID!!) and 3. Party games.

Several surveys and tests have revealed that people become more insensitive to violence, and themselves violent, when indulging in playing games with violent content! I would even go as far as to say that some people who enjoy killing, maiming, torturing and persecuting virtual people who are depicted as real people in a real world would be affected to the negative in this way, and could end up doing it for real! In example, there is the two teenagers who decided to play out GTA for real and killed a real person because they were "bored"!! (http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2003Sep/wbg20030911021706.htm)

This, if even one person doing it and saying that is why they did it, proves that it is true that such games makes people more violent! While the majority of us, don´t actually go out to react like they did, we should question the moral implications of such gamescontnet on those who are too weak, or too sensitive to react in a sound way to such games. Can our society afford to have some people affected to a point where they suddenly and without warning go out and "do it for real"? It could be me, or you who´s affected next! Do you feel safe in a society where the gamemedia is exploiting disaster and turning the blind eye when it turns ugly? I know many families where such games are banned from play. And I also know the reason!

Therefore this is a good reason for including this topic in the PGC Forum. For, even though Nintendo says it doesn´t make such games, recently they have caved into the pressure from a hungry gamingaudience, and started to make such content in games. One thing is for certain, the type of games with violent content that the PS2 is swimming in literally, is NOT the type of games that builds up the family values for adults and their little bright eyed kids that Miyamoto-san seeks to promote. Period.

Gamebasher.








 

[FOX McLOUD]

Yeah, but winning is all that matters.

[The Omen]

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Several surveys and tests have revealed that people become more insensitive to violence, and themselves violent, when indulging in playing games with violent content! I would even go as far as to say that some people who enjoy killing, maiming, torturing and persecuting virtual people who are depicted as real people in a real world would be affected to the negative in this way, and could end up doing it for real! In example, there is the two teenagers who decided to play out GTA for real and killed a real person because they were "bored"!!

Surveys and stats can be molded into anything that person/company wants.  74% of the population know that.

[Gamebasher]

FOX McLOUD, you´re right that "winning is all that matters". But it remains to be seen if not the new Nintendo strategy will back-fire on Nintendo so that perhaps their long-time fans will turn Nintendo down for including too many violent games in their gameslibrary. If it ever gets that bad, that is. I personally hope that they will walk a fine line between adult-rated content and child-rated likes to avoid angering the familes who know what too violent games content does to some people.  

[DrZoidberg]

what?

[KDR_11k]

Just because a single nutcase goes out and does what he sees in a game is NOT a reason to censor or restrict games, it's a reason to keep nutcases under surveillance because basically ANYTHING could have pushed them over the edge. It's like saying we should outlaw TVs because they can cause epileptic seizures. The majority has priority over the minority, basic democratic principle.
Of course, the US has stopped any attempts to prevent or disencourage minors from buying violent games (I wonder if people still feel like defending "free speech" if we're talking about tentacle porn?), which doesn't help the situation (especially young children tend to imitate everything they see, if there's a gun in the house it's even worse...). But I think we're drifting off into political stuff here, which isn't allowed at PGC (interestingly enough we don't see people cry for "free speech" on PGC, perhaps they realized that having free speech everywhere isn't always conductive to the situation).

My oppinion is that both age restriction has its reasons (and hopefully keeps developers from making games more violent for violence's sake) and that censoring games because the other media blame their new "enemy" is absolute bullsh##. No, we don't need to accurately simulate a bullet tearing someone's head apart, but neither do we need government / "concerned parents" outlawing games because something in there goes against their own set of "ethics" (what if I said that evolutiuonism or non-christian mythology are bad subjects for children? Would you agree to censor games for "bad" representations of religion, politics, genders, minorities, majorities or whatever else I can pull out of my ###?).

[thecubedcanuck]

I think censorship is total BS.
I for one am sick of others trying to push THEIR morals, THEIR religion, and THEIR beliefs onto me.
I can think for myself, thank you very much.
You dont like it, then dont buy it, look at it, touch it, or whatever it may be, but dont for one minute try and tell me what to think.
Age restrictions are fine, but just because some people are too irrisponsible to watch over their children doesnt mean everyone else should suffer.
Should their be games about war, gang violence and so on. IMO developers are well within their rights to make such games as long they do not break any laws in the process. To force them to stop because of ethics is just plain wrong.
Just one rednecks opinion.

[Bill Aurion]

We had this censorship discussion a while back, and guess where it ended up?  Just a flame war between though who said "yes" and those who said "no"...Now let's just hope that Mouse doesn't find this topic... ^_^   (But my feelings are pretty much summed up by Ian ----v )

[Ian Sane]

My attitude on what content is acceptable in videogames can be summed up in four letters: ESRB.  Videogames have a ratings system that makes it quite clear what sort of content is in a game.  If it's got an 'E' rating then there is assurance that there is no nudity or sex or graphic violence in that game.  If there is then the ESRB screwed up royally.  With the slightest bit of research one can easily have an idea of what the content is like in a game beforehand.  If you don't read the rating on the box well you're lucky you haven't killed yourself when ignoring other warning.  Some people ignore stop signs but that doesn't mean that stop signs aren't doing their job correctly.

This sort of stuff isn't an issue with movies which like games have a ratings system.  Movies based on war or gangs or criminals are made all the time and no one complains.  Why do movies get off scott free and games don't?  Simple.  It's because movies have been around longer so thus everyone likes them.  Games have only been around long enough for people under 40 to really have any connection with them.  Thus they're a perfect scapegoat for the older generation since none of them would be affected by enforced game censorship or outlawing games outright.

I will agree that making a game based on a war currently in progress or a major tragedy is in poor taste.  But I handle that the same way I handle TV shows or music or movies that I think are in poor taste.  I don't give them my business.

[mouse_clicker]

Bill: The only reason that thread turned into a flame ware was because Grey Ninja had absolutely no clue what I was talking about. We were actually arguing almost the same point, but c'est la vi.

Nolimit also really gets on my nerves, and I'm sure the reverse is true as well.



Anyway, this caught my eye:

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Several surveys and tests have revealed that people become more insensitive to violence, and themselves violent, when indulging in playing games with violent content! I would even go as far as to say that some people who enjoy killing, maiming, torturing and persecuting virtual people who are depicted as real people in a real world would be affected to the negative in this way, and could end up doing it for real! In example, there is the two teenagers who decided to play out GTA for real and killed a real person because they were "bored"!!

Come on, how many times is this going to be brought up- do you want to know WHY violent games often make people who play them violent? Because most violent videogames are very frustrating by nature. I can tell you the most violent I've ever been while playing a game is when I played Super Monkey Ball 1 and 2, two of the most nonviolent games on the market, but also two of the most difficult. Whoever wrote this editorial assumes way too much- people have a tendency to take one small fact, completely blow it out of proportion, then run with it with the false sense that it's the case winning evidence when in reality it offers no support at all.  

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I will agree that making a game based on a war currently in progress or a major tragedy is in poor taste. But I handle that the same way I handle TV shows or music or movies that I think are in poor taste. I don't give them my business.

Exactly. We shouldn't have someone tell us what's in bad taste and what's inappropriate, we should be able to decide that on our own. It's their right to make whatever kind of game they want no matter what our opinion on it and it's our right to decide whether or not to buy it.

 

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

After skimming this aweful long mess of text called a thread, I found the words "tentacle porn".  *Thumbs up* to whoever mentioned it.

And Conflict: Desert Storm II is a decent(great) title that puts Ubisoft's previous GCN "ports" of Tom Clancy shooters to shame.

[S-U-P-E-R]

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Can our society afford to have some people affected to a point where they suddenly and without warning go out and "do it for real"?

hahahahahahaha laughable

Today, I was working at the arcade at the redemption counter, and I had a toy airplane that a kid had won out of a machine and forgotten, so I built a pair of identical towers out of boxes of Jaw Breakers from the counter, and yelled "NEVER FORGET" and crashed the plane into them.

My point is that nobody needs to be a morality cop, I mean, we fans of the game biz just HATE that. Also, many of the best games ever are based on real life horrible albeit far previous wars, maybe you'd like to call them out, too?

If you still think games make people flip out and shoot people, you need your head checked.

[GoldShadow1]

I definitely agree about Command and Conquer: Generals.  While the demo was awesome (never played the full version) I much preferred the extremely satirical, B-movie/Dr. Strangelove- style of Red Alert 2.  

I also find Battlefield: Vietnam distasteful - or, for that matter, Battlefield 1942.  Playing as a Nazi trying to kill American soldiers doesn't appeal to me, although it is a fun game.

"Several surveys and tests have revealed that people become more insensitive to violence, and themselves violent, when indulging in playing games with violent content! "

Or is it that already-violent people like to play violent games?

[S-U-P-E-R]

I heard millions and millions of people play video games

Uh oh

[Mario]

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Personally I couldn´t agree more! That´s why I never play anything other than Nintendo games, and a few select 2. party (METROID!!) and 3. Party games.

Are you worried you might get the urge to run over Tony Hawk in a tank that has custom skins after you've robbed a few old ladies who may or may not have a grandchild who may or may not become the next hitler or hitlette? I constantly think about the possibility of myself just doing that if i ever get "bored". Oh hey, i'm bored now, WATCH OUT TONY HAWK.

Seriously, it's people like you who make me want to kill people, not videogames.

[mouse_clicker]

Quote
I heard millions and millions of people play video games

Seriously- if videogames are making people who play them into deranged killers, why aren't thousands, if not millions, of gamers running around killing everything in sight? My friend was in his (Catholic) religion class a few days ago and they were listing off things that cause kids to be violent and kill other people- one of the students said videogames and the teacher immediately praised him for coming up with "the" reason- the media's brainwashed people into believing everything they believe, and it's pathetic.

[DrZoidberg]

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if videogames are making people who play them into deranged killers, why aren't thousands, if not millions, of gamers running around killing everything in sight?

we are, or atleast i am, it's all a government cover up

[Ian Sane]

"Or is it that already-violent people like to play violent games?"

Bingo.  It's like how porn doesn't turn people into rapists but rapists probably really like porn.

"My friend was in his (Catholic) religion class a few days ago and they were listing off things that cause kids to be violent and kill other people- one of the students said videogames and the teacher immediately praised him for coming up with 'the' reason"

What sort of sh!tty religion class is that?  Back in my day "temptation" was always the best answer.  Though after 12 years in a Catholic school I have noticed that at any time there's always at least one teacher who has the attitude that if kids like it it must be bad.  Back in grade three my teacher thought Ninja Turtles were evil and accused them of SHOOTING PEOPLE WITH GUNS which must have happened in some one-time only episode that despite being a die hard fan I must have missed.  A few years later Mortal Kombat and Doom became the cause of all evil though in that case I can sympathize since there was no rating system in place at the time.

[KDR_11k]

We need something to keep devs in the ground. If we were to abolish any kind of restriction the suits would decide any game sells better with porn and extreme violence, so almost all games will contain porn and violence (and probably even Hip Hop!), which would limit the games a person disgusted with this behaviour to a small number of games. Granted, this is a worst-case scenario, but for me content like porn or unnecessarily gross violence devalue the game (I hate it when something disturbs my "flow".).

[S-U-P-E-R]

No way dude, the market for E games is too huge

[Gamebasher]

Yeah, once you get a big thing popular wit the mainstream there will be a huge outcry if you take it away from people. Kind og like candy from a baby, only this isn´t easy to take away!

So what can we do with those who do turn violent and go out and..erh...doitforreal?

Hey, I got some ideas:

1) We can throw them out of the window!

2) We can put them in a surrealistic gunslinger show aka Wild West competition turned real and see if they really "mean it" there! Then blow them away if they do, in "self-defense".

3) We can write on their backs (while diverting their attention with a baseballbat or a shotgun) "I am a videogame player turned Assassin, so arrest me...please!"

Any...other suggestions?  

[DrZoidberg]

4) buy me a coke.

[S-U-P-E-R]

5) post a thread about it and then let it die when it is ill-received

[Shift Key]

6) BUMP FOR HILARITY  

[KDR_11k]

7) -GrAyLaN