Topic: Game of the Decade -- Vote After Listening to RFN 183!

[Mop it up]

I'm not surprised at all by Metroid Prime getting the most votes, but Zelda: Majora's Mask? I guess I just don't get what makes that game so great, I felt it was kind of substandard and forced.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I'm not surprised at all by Metroid Prime getting the most votes, but Zelda: Majora's Mask? I guess I just don't get what makes that game so great, I felt it was kind of substandard and forced.

Majora's Mask was designed around a short development cycle, many of the "innovations" were most likely out of necessity to get it out the door on time. To me MM feels like the most non organic Zelda in the series, and LOOKS designed.

[Armak88]

I'm not surprised at all by Metroid Prime getting the most votes, but Zelda: Majora's Mask? I guess I just don't get what makes that game so great, I felt it was kind of substandard and forced.

Majora's Mask was designed around a short development cycle, many of the "innovations" were most likely out of necessity to get it out the door on time. To me MM feels like the most non organic Zelda in the series, and LOOKS designed.

This is an interesting criticism of MM. I think that it has possibly created the most organic world in any game that I've played. There are something like 25 people that you can help in your bombers notebook and each person has there own schedule that they follow with windows of opportunity for you to help. There are only four dungeons but before each dungeon there is a task that must be completed in the dungeons respective town that is like its own dungeon. This is the most organic integration of dungeon like problem solving in any zelda game, better than the yeti's house in TP and better than the well where you get the eye of truth in OoT. Each mask comes with a story and has a function, not to mention that you get a different reaction out of everyone you talk to.

I also think that the locals are much better than in OoT. They are much more specialized and intricate. Clocktown is bigger and more intricate than Hyrule Castle town and Kakariko village put together, the swamp is detailed and introduces the deku scrubs as serious third race, the Gorons are more developed than in death mountain. I always liked Zora's domain better than the Great bay though.

I think that the time limit throws people, and that a lot of people got put off early and didn't really give the game a chance. The game really gets more and more awesome the further into it you play. One thing that I really liked was that right from the start of this game link was a badass. He doesn't have the master sword, and it's not even clear that he has the tri-force of courage, but he has this composure from his previous adventure that stands out to me.

[vudu]

So here are the results of the rankings.

Game	Points	# of No. 1s	Rank in Poll
Metroid Prime	41	6	1
Mario Galaxy	58	3	4 (tie)
Smash Bros. Melee	62	5	3
Majora's Mask	65	5	2
Resident Evil 4	71	0	6
Wii Sports	102	0	4 (tie)

The Points column indicates the total number of points each game received.  A number 1 rank was worth 1 point, while a number 6 rank was worth 6 points.  Obviously, the lower number of points the better the game did.  The # of No. 1s column totals the number of times each game received a rank of 1.

There were 19 total votes, which is about 20% of the number in the poll.  It's obviously not a perfect comparison, but you can infer some interesting points.

Mario Galaxy tied for 4th in the poll and it was 4th in number of #1 votes in the ranking system, but it received the second lowest number of points.  Even though the game wasn't #1 for most, it consistently ranked high on everyone's list.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, Majora's Mask placed 2nd in the official poll and it tied for 2nd in the number of #1 votes in the ranking system, but it placed 4th in the total number of points.  It seems people either love this game or hate it.

Resident Evil 4 only received 8.2% of the votes in the poll--the lowest number by far--by it beat Wii Sports in number of points by a wide margin and was very close to both Majora's Mask and Smash Bros. Melee in total number of points.

Even though Wii Sports tied for 4th place in the official poll, it received the highest number of points (a bad thing) in the ranking.  The game was ranked #6 by 13 of the 19 people who participated in the ranking!  Then again, no one who participated in the ranking ranked it above #3, so obviously we don't have a fair sample of the general NWR population.

[Mop it up]

I think that the time limit throws people, and that a lot of people got put off early and didn't really give the game a chance. The game really gets more and more awesome the further into it you play.

I beat the game. It only got more annoying the more I played it.

[ejamer]

I think that the time limit throws people, and that a lot of people got put off early and didn't really give the game a chance. The game really gets more and more awesome the further into it you play.

I beat the game. It only got more annoying the more I played it.

Sounds like this is supporting the "love it/hate it" observation listed above.  That said, my personal opinion is more in line with what Armak88 posted earlier.
 
I've been thinking about it more, and there are two other reasons (beyond the surreal story and symbolism) that I love Majora's Mask:
(1) Time actually matters, and you have to set out with a defined goal if you want to accomplish anything.  This gives a sense of urgency when you are playing
(2) Non-playable characters actually do something, instead of staying in the same place and saying the same thing.  I don't remember many games doing this successfully before Majora's Mask - but the idea of a living and evolving world is great, even if the game limited how long it could live for before having to travel back in time and trying to accomplish something different.

[TJ Spyke]

Majora's Mask was easily the worst 3D Zelda, and maybe the worst "canon" Zelda game, so I don't get the love it receives. It was definitely not even the best game of 2000, so I am disappointed it managed to get 2nd place. At least a great game like Metroid Prime won.

[vudu]

I LOVE STATING OPINION AS FACT.  IT GIVES ME A SENSE OF AUTHORITY.

[Jonnyboy117]

That's not fair, vudu. This is an inherently subjective discussion, so saying "in my opinion" or "I think" is technically redundant. Good writing principles are to avoid such phrases when the presence of subjectivity is clear. So yes, while writing "Game X is bad" is an authoritative way of putting it, it is also entirely correct and should not be seen as some kind of power grab.

[vudu]

In my defense, TJ Spyke's avatar causes everything he says to come off with a bit of arrogance.

[Mop it up]

Sounds like this is supporting the "love it/hate it" observation listed above.

I would definitely agree with that. I don't think that I've heard anyone say that Majora's Mask is just a good game or was all right, people tend to really love its style and characters or hate it for its structure. I guess I can see some appeal in it with how it is more character-driven and how different it is than other Zelda games, but the time element was just a bother and the dungeon designs were quite a chore and no fun at all. I've played through the game just once though, and as with any game I've been harsh with, I kind of want to give it another chance. The only reason I haven't done so is that I'd rather spend my game time on other things.

That's not fair, vudu. This is an inherently subjective discussion, so saying "in my opinion" or "I think" is technically redundant. Good writing principles are to avoid such phrases when the presence of subjectivity is clear. So yes, while writing "Game X is bad" is an authoritative way of putting it, it is also entirely correct and should not be seen as some kind of power grab.

This is how I tend to view posts on this board, at least when discussing games. Though depending on the subject, sometimes I do find myself writing "I think" or "I feel" just to be clear.

In my defense, TJ Spyke's avatar causes everything he says to come off with a bit of arrogance.

Ha ha.

[Stratos]

That's not fair, vudu. This is an inherently subjective discussion, so saying "in my opinion" or "I think" is technically redundant. Good writing principles are to avoid such phrases when the presence of subjectivity is clear. So yes, while writing "Game X is bad" is an authoritative way of putting it, it is also entirely correct and should not be seen as some kind of power grab.

Except TJ did not say 'In my opinion' or 'I think' right there. He stated it as if it was an agreed upon fact.

[Mop it up]

I think Jonny's point was that TJ Spyke shouldn't have to say "in my opinion" as it should be implied.

[Stratos]

I missed the art where Jonny said "redundant" in his post for some reason.

LOL, I need more coffee before work...

[ejamer]

In Vudu's defense, the lack of any supporting statement doesn't help.  Labelling something as good or bad without discussing why you hold that opinion is both less interesting to read and less useful for others who are participating in the discussion.
 
Of course, that doesn't invalidate the opinion that it could be the "easily the worst" game of the Zelda series.
 

[NWR_Neal]

From playing Majora's Mask for the first time in a long, long time recently. I see the good, and I also see the bad. That first boss was pretty terrible, and the dungeon wasn't too great either. However, the town stuff is a lot of fun, as are the areas around the dungeon.

[Rize]

I can't remember much from Majora's Mask.  I remember the intro scene, the moon, rolling around in the snow and the third temple which was like a water temple except most of the water was in pipes. 

I agree with mop_it_up and others that the game felt forced and insubstantial compared to other Zelda games.  It just seemed all wrong.  I didn't get very involved with the "sidequests" either.  I recall just wanting to finish the game and be done with it.

[RABicle]

WELL I LOVE SIDEQUESTS AND HATE YOU.

MM is amazing. Incredible art, incredible music and gameplay concepts that are still amazing because no one has dared tackle them since.

[ejamer]

Finished replaying Ocarina of Time recently and started on Majora's Mask (using the GameCube Collector's Edition disc).  Got almost to the end of the third day without saving when the game froze.  Immense frustration followed, and I can only imagine that if this happened to anyone experiencing the game for this first time it would color their view of the entire game*.
 
Oh well, will go back at it this weekend... this time with the Virtual Console release that is supposed to be a better emulation.
 
 
*On a side note, something similar happened to me when first playing Ocarina of Time on the N64.  The game froze in Zora's Domain while climbing up the big ladder.  I lost a couple hours of progress and all interest in playing further.  The game sat for weeks before I bothered to try again.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

WELL I LOVE SIDEQUESTS AND HATE YOU.

MM is amazing. Incredible art, incredible music and gameplay concepts that are still amazing because no one has dared tackle them since.

Reiterated for Justice.

[vudu]

Finished replaying Ocarina of Time recently and started on Majora's Mask (using the GameCube Collector's Edition disc).  Got almost to the end of the third day without saving when the game froze.  Immense frustration followed

Similar thing happened to me when playing Majora's Mask on GCN a few years back--the game froze with like an hour left on the third day when I had almost completed the Couple's Mask side-quest.  That quest takes over an hour to complete and I was pretty pissed off

[TheYoungerPlumber]

Yup, the GCN port is buggy. It froze on me as well. But that's a problem with the port, not the game itself. I suspect the Wii VC release is more stable.