Topic: NBA Thread: Brought To You By The Tampa Bay Raptors Of Toronto

[ejamer]

The latter. I am sure that it is just Klays camp doing their job.

Most likely true... but wouldn't Klay be a perfect fit next to AD and James? Doesn't need the ball, lethal shot, tough defense, and incredibly durable.

Warriors fans shouldn't worry though. Klay is worth the contract, and his team knows that.

[Adrock]

Most likely true... but wouldn't Klay be a perfect fit next to AD and James? Doesn't need the ball, lethal shot, tough defense, and incredibly durable.

He would, but he also isn’t playing again until February or March. If the Lakers use the rest of their cap space on a single player, it would be prudent to spend it on someone who is ready to play at the beginning of the season.

That said, assuming Kawhi Leonard signs elsewhere and the Lakers have a chance to sign Klay Thompson, they would probably sign him and figure out the rest later.

[BeautifulShy]

I mean Kawhi and Kyrie are the two players that I would look at first in free agency and see if one of them want to sign with the Lakers. Kyrie has that chemistry with LeBron and he would be on the timeline of AD after LeBron leaves/retires.    If those two are not options then get D'lo and Beverly and get depth. I am with Adrock in that I kinda want a player who can play next season right away and unfortunately that isn't Klay.   

[BeautifulShy]

So I was reading about Kawhi's meeting with the Lakers and Lebron, AD, Magic and Jennie Buss were planning on meeting him but Kawhi himself has requested that only Magic and Jennie be there at the meeting. So it seems he is all business with the meeting.

[Adrock]

So I was reading about Kawhi's meeting with the Lakers and Lebron, AD, Magic and Jennie Buss were planning on meeting him but Kawhi himself has requested that only Magic and Jennie be there at the meeting. So it seems he is all business with the meeting.

That sounds made-up. Magic Johnson doesn’t work for the Lakers anymore. Yeah, non-employees have shown up during pitches. It’s still odd. Unless it was a troll request from Leonard’s camp, inviting only Buss and Johnson doesn’t make sense. Jeanie, by her own admission, isn’t that knowledge on the basketball side, and Magic isn’t involved with the team at all. Why wouldn’t at least Rob Pelinka be at the meeting?

EDIT: To clarify, I’m not saying you made it up. I saw this which mentions Magic and Jeanie meeting Leonard’s camp. It also mentions a source telling Sam Amick of The Athletic that James and Davis plan on being part of the pitch.

*puts on conspiracy theory hat*
Jeanie has been railing against the media and fake stories for months. What if, in the last month, she’s been leaking fake stories to the media? She’s one of the brightest business minds in the league. It wouldn’t surprise me if she decided to take matters into her own hands and let the media work to her advantage. For example, leak stories about Pelinka being grossly inept regarding the salary cap (despite all evidence to the contrary) so other teams have no idea what’s going on within the organization.

[BeautifulShy]

I saw it on ESPN about the Magic and Jennie part of it. I guess from my understanding now is that Magic can't formally be in the room for a official meeting with the Lakers organization but he can do something on his own.
 https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27076486/sources-kawhi-meet-magic-lakers-buss

This weekend is going to be exciting and chaotic.

[Adrock]

There it is.

Leonard, who is expected to speak to the Lakers in the next few days, had made a personal request that only owner Jeanie Buss and Johnson, the team's former president of basketball operations, be involved in the meeting, sources told ESPN's Stephen A. Smith.

1. Word-diarrhea pours out of Stephen A.’s mouth all the time.

2. Someone doesn’t know the rules whether it’s Stephen A. or his sources. Non-employees/celebrities show up in pitch videos all the time. I guess it’s possible the NBA doesn’t monitor who physically sits in the free agent meeting. Or Jeanie Buss is leaking more fake stories...

[Soren]

Either way there's legitimate reasons why Kahwi would be reticent to join the Lakers, including willingly taking on the third role after leading a Toronto squad. Bomani and Pablo lay it out perfectly. Possible 10(!) guys on minimum contracts!

https://twitter.com/bomani_jones/status/1144712073466777600?s=20

[BeautifulShy]

I was coming in to post about what the Suns have done since the draft since it is the team locally here but let me say something on the 3rd max or depth subject with the Lakers.


I feel if the Lakers get a 3rd star be it Kawhi or Kyrie or someone else I feel that Lebron is going to take a step back with being the main guy in part because of how old he is right now. Going to be 35 this coming season and I think he is going to be more of a facilitator and get his points where he can within the offense. He is a smart enough guy to do that and adapt his game to others. He did it in Miami and I think he can do it with the Lakers. I also think that with these 3 guys all of them can play off ball to a degree and that would be less taxing on everyone altogether so they can make it through the season.

 In regards to Pelinka I would say that everyone has doubted him since Magic left and I do think he has made some good moves with getting AD to come here and a week ago none of the pundents thought that the Lakers would even get max space but he has done that.  He made it so where it is flexable if they miss out on the top free agents he can craft a great team with depth.  He has that flexablity now.       

They also have options with the exception and different players who have been developing on two way contracts and the buyout market later in the year.

[Adrock]

Either way there's legitimate reasons why Kahwi would be reticent to join the Lakers, including willingly taking on the third role after leading a Toronto squad. Bomani and Pablo lay it out perfectly. Possible 10(!) guys on minimum contracts!

https://twitter.com/bomani_jones/status/1144712073466777600?s=20

And there are legitimate reasons why he shouldn't reticent to join the Lakers.

1. Why would Kawhi Leonard be the third option when he's better than both James and Davis at this point in their careers? James was better and maybe Davis will be better. The third option take doesn't make any sense from a basketball standpoint yet I haven't heard any analyst bring this up. If he signed with the Lakers, he would immediately be the first option on most nights. Maybe it would be Davis sometimes depending on the matchup.

Also, here's Leonard himself saying, "I just want to win, I don't care about being the best player."

2. Whether Kawhi Leonard should join a superteam when he led his team to a championship goes both ways. These analysts keep ignoring the fact that the 2019 Finals went to six games despite the Warriors losing two starters. The Raptors had to triple team Steph Curry and they still almost lost Game 6. The Finals were a cautionary tale regarding superteams, but we know they work. What are the chances that two superstars go down with catastrophic injuries in the same series?

Kawhi Leonard doesn't have anything else to prove. If he joins a superteam, no one is going to give him **** like they did with Kevin Durant. If Leonard cares primarily about winning and career longevity, he should join a superteam even if it isn't the Lakers. It's just easier on your body when you don't have carry so much. There were times in these playoffs when Leonard just looked tired. Dude is 28. Analysts and retired players like to dunk on superteams and wax nostalgic about the competitiveness of the 80s and 90s. We're in a different era now.

3. Who cares if the Lakers have to sign a bunch of players on minimum contracts? There are players who are overpaid and underpaid every year. Salary doesn't dictate skill or contribution. I don't like that players take less money. More importantly, we all know that they do for whatever reason.

"Depth" is like eight or nine deep and only 13 players can be on the active roster a night. It wouldn't be that difficult to find decent minimum contract role players after using the mid-level exception.

Anyway, I'm fascinated by but not sold on Kawhi Leonard signing with the Lakers. I just have a hard time taking these tired, one-sided takes seriously week after week. Honestly, I'm conflicted. A team led by Leonard, Davis, and James would be fun to watch but they'd be a lot more fun to watch against a fully loaded, healthy Warriors team which we won't get this upcoming season.

[Soren]

"Depth" is like eight or nine deep and only 13 players can be on the active roster a night. It wouldn't be that difficult to find decent minimum contract role players after using the mid-level exception.

Given that most playoff rotations shorten to 8 players, that means the Lakers, after signing 1 max player and 1 MLE player, would need 3 extra players worthy of playoff minutes that would also agree to sign for league minimum contracts.

Oh and good luck not getting injured.

There's a reason most championship contending teams have an end of the bench rotation held together by duct tape and elbow grease. The Lakers have a real possibility of not even having a good 6th man.

[Adrock]

Given that most playoff rotations shorten to 8 players, that means the Lakers, after signing 1 max player and 1 MLE player, would need 3 extra players worthy of playoff minutes that would also agree to sign for league minimum contracts.

There’s no shortage of thirsty vets chasing their first ring. There’s no shortage of vets who made the bulk of their earnings already and are just looking for a winning situation and/or meaningful playing time. The Lakers overpaid Rajon Rondo knowing they’d star-chasing so they could sign him for the minimum this season. Off the bench, sure. Playoff Rondo® is a real thing. There are always players on the buy-out market. If a team is good at scouting (and the Lakers are), there’s value overseas, the G-League, and the so-called “NBA Scrapheap.” People forget Wayne Ellington played for the Lakers in 2014-2015 on a minimum contract. Spencer Dinwiddie was unceremoniously tossed away before the Nets gave him a chance. He’s been playing for peanuts the last couple years before getting a decent extension in December.

I’m not saying the Lakers will find a diamond in the rough like Dinwiddie. Bench players getting meaningful minutes will absolutely be available for the minimum on a superteam. Maybe they take the minimum for one year, get their ring then **** off. A team with three superstars in a big, warm-weather market can literally do this every year. Or they can do wink-and-nod deals and pay them on the backend when they get their Bird rights.

[ejamer]

Re: Kawhi as a first option on the Lakers, I don't see it.  Has LeBron ever ceded control? I mean, he has a history of making good passes and trusts others to make shots in important moments... but I haven't seen anything in his play or his behavior that makes me think he's ready to take a step back. I don't trust it. Yes, LeBron is older, but he's been the dominant force his entire basketball life, and I think that mentally it would be an incredible stretch for him to relinquish that position. The interesting question to me would be who gets to be the Robin to LeBron's Batman: Kawhi or AD?

Also, if Kawhi just wants to win, how appealing is a team with 10 minimum contracts vs rolling back with the defending champs in a season where most of their biggest opponents will likely be down a player or two from last year? Bird in the hand is worth two in the bush...  (The answer of course is that it's not really just about winning - there are lots of real-life factors that come into play too.)

[Adrock]

I saw it on ESPN about the Magic and Jennie part of it. I guess from my understanding now is that Magic can't formally be in the room for a official meeting with the Lakers organization but he can do something on his own.

Just an addendum on this. According to Tania Ganguli, NBA rules don't prevent teams from bringing in non-employees to free agent pitches. The league just didn't want Magic Johnson specifically involved in Lakers free agent meetings because of the bad optics. It would be as if Johnson quit just so he could tamper on his own time, unhindered by the collective bargaining agreement.

Re: Kawhi as a first option on the Lakers, I don't see it.  Has LeBron ever ceded control?

He just gave up his number for Anthony Davis. It sounds insignificant, but that matters to players. LeBron hasn't had to cede control because he was always the best player on the team which would no longer be true on a team Leonard and Davis. Dwyane Wade famously deferred to LeBron in Miami, and it got them two championships. That said, he's seen it first hand. I certainly have some doubts and understand why others would. At the same time, LeBron is 34 and seems far more self-aware than say, Kobe who was jacking up 20 shots a game at the end of his career.

Also, if Kawhi just wants to win, how appealing is a team with 10 minimum contracts vs rolling back with the defending champs in a season where most of their biggest opponents will likely be down a player or two from last year?

This is a hilariously reductive comparison. You very blatantly refused to mention he'd be joining two top seven players at worst. You guys can keep dunking on minimum contracts, but again, salary doesn't dictate skill or contribution. That's true across the entire spectrum. Kemba Walker is going to get paid the same amount of money as Kawhi Leonard next season. No one puts them on the same pedestal. Steph Curry is on a supermax contract now yet he's grossly underpaid and he's only earning ~$2 million more than Chris Paul. Just because someone signs a contract for X dollars doesn't mean that's how much they're worth.

The Raptors were one Steph Curry shot from a Game 7. It was a series they rightfully won under the circumstances, and rightfully would not have won under different circumstances. Ultimately, the Raptors are the defending champs so rolling it back with roughly the same team next year is an appealing option. My point is joining the Lakers is also an appealing option just for different reasons. Dismissing that option by focusing on minimum contracts as well as downplaying or even flat-out disregarding the benefits of joining two of the best players in the league is bad a look, man.

[ejamer]

Not so reductive at all, or at least no more than when a dominant, superstar player says "I just want to win...".
There is always more to the decision.

And while it's totally possible that he'll go to the Lakers, I still have to see it to believe it. Nobody - NOBODY - is worse for putting out rumors about how they are getting major free agents than L.A. and N.Y.  Sometimes it happens, sometimes not.

You are right that Kawhi would never have had two teammates so talented. Fingers crossed they can stay healthy though - because LeBron is aging and has a ton of wear on that body and AD seems to get hurt and miss time almost every year. Hopefully the Lakers medical team is strong.

End of story: Kawhi definitely might join the Lakers. People make bad choices all the time.

[BeautifulShy]

On the topic of LeBron deferring he did it his first year in Miami and he has shown that he will the little things to make his new teammate welcome by giving up the number 23 to Davis and going back to number 6.

There is also this. https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2019/6/29/19940481/lakers-free-agent-rumors-lebron-james-kawhi-leonard-pitch-defer-anthony-davis-jersey-number-heat   

From Sam Amick of the Athletic.

Want him to be the third option, a playmaker who breathes a new and different life into their games while making sure there’s enough oxygen in the locker room for everyone? Consider it done. Want him to use that third eye on the floor to make Leonard and Davis’ jobs that much easier? He’d love to.
After the disastrous debut season of LeBron in Laker Land, where he missed a career-high 27 games (18 because of a groin strain) and missed out on the playoffs for the first time since 2005 after EIGHT consecutive Finals appearances, he has no illusions about the height of the stakes here or the part that he needs and wants to play. And according to a source close to James, it’s this focus on being an incredible teammate that will be at the center of his message to Leonard.
He’ll make it clear that he’s truly willing to tailor his talents around theirs. He might dispel this notion that all the recent Lakers nonsense is their never-ending norm. He’ll candidly discuss the truth about the point he has reached in his legendary career, how his age and all those meaningful miles mean that Leonard and Davis could have the keys to this Lakers kingdom long after his playing days are done.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Not so fast on those Kawhi to the Lakers rumors....



but why everyone gotta come West!!!? LOL
The East gonna be wide open for someone to rise and FEAST.

[BeautifulShy]

So tomorrow is free agency and it is looking like a lot of the big pieces are off the board. 

Kemba is likely going to the Celtics, Irving is likely going to the Nets, and Klay is heading back to the Warriors according to some reports.

So the Lakers are opening up their options to include Jimmy Butler along with Kawhi as options for the max. If those two fall then they will spend their cap on multiple players.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Lakers Plan C = The Return of D-Lo

[broodwars]

So the NBA's now set the salary cap for the upcoming season at $109.14 million, which almost seems designed to **** over the Jazz (as the NBA has historically been want to do), because now the Jazz automatically have to cut a player just to complete the Mike Conley trade. The cap was only $100,000 short of where the Jazz needed it. Looks like our backup backup Point Guard, Raul Neto, will be the guy on the chopping block. No big loss, really, but it's a bad sign for the upcoming Free Agency Period.

https://www.slcdunk.com/nba-free-agency/2019/6/29/20165163/raul-neto-could-be-salary-cap-casualty-as-cap-is-set-at-109-14-million

[Adrock]

Lakers Plan C = The Return of D-Lo

You don’t say no if Kawhi comes knocking, but man, I’d love to see D’Angelo Russell back on the Lakers. I still follow all the former young core. I’m going to be rooting for the Pelicans. Haymakers aside, I remain a fan of Brandon Ingram.

Jimmy Butler is going to get a max contract. I’m on the fence on giving him one because the end of that contract may be dicey. Still, if you’re trying to win today, you could do a lot worse than Jimmy Buckets so let future you deal with aftermath if you can get a championship first.

The cap was only $100,000 short of where the Jazz needed it. Looks like our backup backup Point Guard, Raul Neto, will be the guy on the chopping block. No big loss, really, but it's a bad sign for the upcoming Free Agency Period.

Of course, it is because **** the Jazz. Now watch Raul Neto have a breakout year earning Most Improved Player and/or the Lou Williams award Sixth Man of the Year.

[ejamer]

Not so fast on those Kawhi to the Lakers rumors....



but why everyone gotta come West!!!? LOL
The East gonna be wide open for someone to rise and FEAST.

100% expected this rumor to come out.

Of course the top two free agents might go to NY. It's only logical, if you think about it... because the Knicks have good management, a history of making good choices and taking care of their players, and seem ready to win now.

Or maybe it's because NY talks about how they are players for the major free agents every year, despite having a pretty terrible track record for ever landing them. But that could all change this year when they pull two of the top 5 players in the NBA in a single off-season!

I was skeptical about the Lakers rumor, but it could happen; this one seems almost farcical.

[BeautifulShy]

The problem with the Knicks is their front office is not the best at making the right choices and that is why they haven't really been relevant since Carmelo was there and before that when they made it to the finals as a 8th seed in 1999.   If the above were to happen I would really only see it with the Clippers of those two teams.

[ejamer]

...   If the above were to happen I would really only see it with the Clippers of those two teams.

Agreed - the LA half of that rumor sounds possible. NY as a destination for two major free agents is a "believe it when you see it" kind of rumor though.

[ejamer]

Only a few hours left. Do you guys expect a lot of quick moves, or some delays? With Kawhi reported to be taking multiple meetings over a couple of days, and rumors that he and Durant might team up, will a lot of smaller deals get done quick while other teams are left waiting on the big fish?

Either way, it'll be exciting to see how things play out!