Topic: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?

[Stogi]

I think it is, to be frank, immature and honestly self-delusional to think the Super Wii is anything but another console in Nintendo's long line of consoles. So many factors are at play, whether inside or outside the game industry, that unless we were somehow faced with a semi-apocalypse that crippled us to where the only system that was even viable to make was the SNES, that we will never see anything even similar to SNES. Even then, I'm unsure.

[Kytim89]

"I think it is, to be frank, immature and honestly self-delusional to think the Super Wii is anything but another console in Nintendo's long line of consoles."
 
Everyone seems to agree that the Wii is the NES of its time, so what is wriong with contemplating the Super Wii as the next SNES?

[Stogi]

Who? Who is everyone? The NES and Wii are nothing alike except for the fact that they both sold games and were popular.

[Kytim89]

Who? Who is everyone? The NES and Wii are nothing alike except for the fact that they both sold games and were popular.

The Wii is this generation's version of the NES and the Super Wii will be to the Wii what the SNES was to the NES.

[Sarail]

I disagree with this, Kytim, immensely.

I absolutely adored my NES. I only somewhat like the Wii. Please don't bunch me in this "everyone" group you're claiming. Thanks.

[Chozo Ghost]

Can we drop this nonsense of referring to the console as "Wii 2" or "Super Wii"? There is zero evidence to indicate these are possible names, and the rumors are pointing towards the names "Stream" and "Cafe". The Wii brand name is history. Get over it. Core gamers do not take it seriously, and Casual gamers have no brand loyalty to speak of. There is nothing to gain by retaining the Wii brand, especially if recapturing the hardcore market is Nintendo's objective, because the brand has zero credibility with that demographic.

[Mop it up]

Both the NES and the Wii were marketed as a family system with simple games that just about anyone can play. That's the main similarity between them, and why some people say they are parallel. Now, I know an argument is that the NES has difficult games that make them restrictive, but that's just because they were so short. They had to be hard to keep people from beating them in one sitting on their first try. But the thing is, the games are difficult by deign and not by complexity. Take Super Mario Brothers for example, it's pretty easy to understand the concept and control the game. Even something like Mega Man is easy to get into despite its difficulty in level design. That's the key.

[nickmitch]

I think it's fair to draw the comparison between the Wii and the NES because it is all in retrospect. However, all the rumors going on about Cafe would lead me to think that it'll be a more significant leap than the SNES was. For crying out loud, Nintendo is drastically changing the controller again (probably). That's 2 gens in a row. The SNES just added more buttons to the controller and more colors on the screen.

[Ceric]

I think it's fair to draw the comparison between the Wii and the NES because it is all in retrospect. However, all the rumors going on about Cafe would lead me to think that it'll be a more significant leap than the SNES was. For crying out loud, Nintendo is drastically changing the controller again (probably). That's 2 gens in a row. The SNES just added more buttons to the controller and more colors on the screen.

Thats unfair to the SNES controller.  It had more colors too

[Ymeegod]

Sigh, "So once again, pretty much all of these games were the only major third party games the Wii got in terms of competing against anything similar to what the PS3/360 have in terms of hype and appeal"

But they sales simply don't match what the sell on other consoles.  Why do you think Capcom dropped support for RE to the WII?  RE5 sold more on Xbox 360 alone than RE4 on the GC and WII combined that's why.  Monster sold a million but the other versions like on the PSP sell multimillions.  Who do you think Capcom is going support.

As for your ToS logic doesn't make alot of sense considering Tales of Graces isn't even getting localized in the states :0. 

A killer example would be Activision's Call of Duty Black Ops.  MS took killer sales (somewhere's near 15+ million) and the WII took in a million.  Can you honestly expect them to dropped support for MS in favor of the WII 2?  Nope at best you'll get an port if you get it at all.

Let me ask you one question, if you were funding an 3rd party game what console would you aim at?

[NWR_insanolord]

The Wii 2 will certainly get ports, assuming it's as powerful and developer-friendly as we've been led to believe. I'm sure some developers will include bonus features that could only be done on the system, because of the controller screen or added power or whatever. If (and this is a big if) Nintendo actually manages to get it to the point that it's the PS2 to the PS4 and Xbox 720's GameCube and Xbox, that and launching first should ensure the power and user base to get most third party games.

If they do all that, and (another big if) drastically improve their online infrastructure, along with being lower-priced (pretty much a given, as they're launching first and they're Nintendo), there really aren't any glaring flaws, and I could see them being competitive in terms of sales. That's a best-case scenario, though, if Nintendo doesn't make any really stupid decisions (again, we're talking about Nintendo here) and gets a few lucky breaks along the way.

[nickmitch]

For games like Call of Duty, the online is key. Most people I know who play shooters pretty much beat the story mode for the acheivements then only play online. The trick is to sell a **** ton of systems to convince gamers to buy the Cafe version over ther other two.

[Ian Sane]

Comparing the Wii to the NES is a huge insult to the NES.  The NES was the absolute videogame standard of its time.  The Wii was beloved by a very large group of casuals that bought Wii Fit and jack **** else and was generally ignored by everyone else.  The Wii was a fad and the fact that it is not only currently ignored by third parties but even Nintendo themselves proves it.  Once the frenzy was over and you could actually find the damn thing in stores on a regular basis no one gave a **** anymore.  Wii-mania was caused by insanely strong mainstream demand for Wii Sports and Wii Fit and it took a few years for Nintendo to meet the demand for these titles.  But once everyone who wanted a Wii for these two titles had one they proceeded to buy nothing else because they were not interested in games, just these few titles.  Meanwhile those legitimately interested in videogames had long given up on the Wii for one of the other consoles.  And here we are now where the best selling console this gen is completely irrelevant with NOTHING being released for it right now while the lesser selling consoles continue to roll on.
 
Cafe won't be the next SNES because it isn't going to be a conventional follow up to the Wii.  All we've heard is about how THIS time Nintendo will have the specs and that they're aggressively targetting the core.  This is a completely different approach than the Wii was.  Part of the Wii's identity is a casual-focus, outdated specs and lousy third party support.  Cafe is rumoured to avoid all three of those.  A Nintendo console with decent third party support would be a major shift in Nintendo's history.  What is rumoured is more or less the "revolution" the Wii was rumoured to be.  The rumour is that Cafe is going to be a drastic overhaul not just as a major change from the Wii but potentially a major change in how Nintendo does things period.
 
If Cafe gets the third parties back then it means Nintendo changed.  That would be a huge deal.  Cafe would not be a mere evolutionary change like the SNES was.

[Luigi Dude]

But they sales simply don't match what the sell on other consoles.  Why do you think Capcom dropped support for RE to the WII?  RE5 sold more on Xbox 360 alone than RE4 on the GC and WII combined that's why.  Monster sold a million but the other versions like on the PSP sell multimillions.  Who do you think Capcom is going support.

Capcom dropped RE support on the Wii long before RE5 was even released on the 360.  The fact that they used the RE4 Wii engine to make the sh!tty Dead Rising port that was released a month before RE5 on the HD systems, instead of you know, an actual Resident Evil game that could have been out on the Wii around the same time as RE5 on the HD systems, shows sales had nothing to do with Capcom not giving a sh!t about any real Resident Evil games on the Wii.

Oh and in the case of Monster Hunter, Capcom going to support both consoles.  If they can sell 1 million copies on the Wii, and then easily port it over to the PSP a year later to sell another 4 million copies, they'll continue to do that since they're basically getting an extra million in sales.  Of course with the Wii's sales dropping in Japan quite a bit since Monster Hunter 3 was released, the next Monster Hunter will probably be released on the 3DS and the PSP this time.

As for your ToS logic doesn't make alot of sense considering Tales of Graces isn't even getting localized in the states :0. 

I was referring to the Tales of Symphonia for the Gamecube that was released in 2004 that was a million seller, not the sequel that was released for the Wii in 2008 that did much less.  Of course it should be noted that the Wii sequel sold around the same as what Vesperia for the 360 did, despite Vesperia being considered the much better game and being on the system that you even say sells games much better.

Maybe if Namco actually cared about trying to make Tales popular in the West and made Gamecube ports of the PS2 games, they could have kept a good sized Tales fanbase on Nintendo systems.  Instead they just brought the PS2 games over to the West and kept them PS2 exlusive which all did terrible and because of that pissed of the Nintendo fanbase that made Symphonia so popular, which is why when it's sequel came out on the Wii, not that many Nintendo fans cared about it and so it sold much worse.

No surprise they're not going to bring the Wii version of Graces over since Namco did all they could to make the last Tales game on a Nintendo console sell as low as it did.  Of course I can guarantee you right now because of how incompetent Namco is with the Tales series in the West, the PS3 version of Graces will do poorly as well and end up doing around exactly what Vesperia and Dawn of the New World did.

A killer example would be Activision's Call of Duty Black Ops.  MS took killer sales (somewhere's near 15+ million) and the WII took in a million.  Can you honestly expect them to dropped support for MS in favor of the WII 2? Nope at best you'll get an port if you get it at all.

Where the hell in my original post did I ever say third parties should dropped Microsoft and give full support to Nintendo?  All I said was that third party games can do well on Nintendo systems and showed all the examples of when they did.  The fact that you even say the Wii version was able to sell a million copies proves my whole point.  I can guarantee you the Wii version of Black Ops probably cost much less to make then the HD version, so even though it only sold 1 million copies, that 1 million probably still made Activision some good money.  Yeah, no where close to the mountain of cash the 360 version brought in, but the Wii version like all the other Call of Duty games still did well enough to make money which is why Activision keeps giving the Wii Call of Duty games.

[Mop it up]

Comparing the Wii to the NES is a huge insult to the NES...

If you think it's an insult, you're taking the comparison too literally. No one's said that the two systems are exactly alike, the similarities between the two reside in marketing. Both systems were marketed towards families using simple games that anyone can understand and play, both systems used accessories to sell certain games, etc. I don't think Nintendo ever intended the Wii to be a "casual"-focused system, they just underestimated what it would take to keep some of their fans on board.

[Chozo Ghost]

which is why Activision keeps giving the Wii Call of Duty games.

Actually, its Treyarch who keeps giving the Wii COD games. The COD games which were made by Infinity Ward do not come to the Wii. Wii did not get MW1 (though it did get a watered down remake), or MW2, and if you look into the upcoming MW3 which is due for release on November 8 of this year the Wii is not mentioned among the supported platforms. If it were made by Treyarch it probably would have been, but Infinity Ward hates Nintendo for some reason.

[Mop it up]

The Wii version of Modern Warfare isn't a remake, it's the same as something like the Wii version of Black Ops, missing a couple of the extra features that need more system power.

I expect to see a Wii version of Modern Warfare 2 released on the same day as Modern Warfare 3.

[Chozo Ghost]

I expect to see a Wii version of Modern Warfare 2 released on the same day as Modern Warfare 3.

Why would you expect that? There's nothing that indicates this is going to happen.

The most I can find believable is that MW3 may get ported to the Cafe later on, but my money is on Black Ops being the last COD game for the Wii.

[Mop it up]

Because Modern Warfare on Wii was released on the same day as Modern Warfare 2. I think it was announced a couple of months before it came out, so we won't hear about it for some time.

[Chozo Ghost]

Okay... well, for the record I hope you're right.

[ThePerm]

haha that sounds like a dumb idea..why waste resources making a gimped port of a game when you can make the same game for the next system and have it ready for launch? I dont see how this always happens, at the third year mark developers should really realize that they should start making games for new systems. Every time a new system comes out the launch titles are usually rush jobs or ports. They can't guarantee what power will be behind the next systems, but they can guess it'll have at THE LEAST 20% more ram and wont be that much different then some pc video card setup that's already attainable,

[Chozo Ghost]

I dont see how this always happens, at the third year mark developers should really realize that they should start making games for new systems.

They can only start once they've received the Dev Kits. That said, the Dev Kits for the Cafe are now in the hands of developers, but keep in mind that they said that work on MW3 began two weeks after MW2 was released, and that was 2 years ago.

But I do agree with you that they might as well put MW3 on the Wii instead of messing with MW2. Treyarch released Black Ops on the Wii the same day as other systems, so there's no real reason it couldn't be done, except that Infinity Ward is prejudiced against Nintendo like I said...

And actually, I believe it was Treyarch or some other company who ported MW1 to the Wii. It may have been Infinity Ward's game, but someone else had to do the work to port it to Wii because IW simply would not touch it. So if MW2 or 3 ever comes to Wii its only going to happen if some other company does it.

[Mop it up]

Yeah, it was Treyarch who ported Modern Warfare to the Wii, I believe they said it took them about ten months to do it. They'd be the ones to port Modern Warfare 2 if it happens, and it might not even take as long to port it if they can reuse assets from the first game on the Wii.

[Chozo Ghost]

It is possible they began work on an MW2 port to the Wii right after they wrapped up their work on Black Ops. But I think it would make more sense for them to make an MW3 port instead, because it would be more up to date.

On a side note, IW are jerks and I think their games are inferior to the ones made by Treyarch anyway. MW2 was a piece of crap (in my opinion) because of how everyone would "boost" on it and get nukes and they never patched it or did anything about it, and from what I've heard the MW2 online has deteriorated badly to the point where its just full of hackers and cheaters. So its not a fun experience. At least Black Ops is actively maintained still, and Treyarch made it so you can report people via the game if they are doing bad stuff.