Topic: Reggie Fils-Aime Responds to Declining Wii Sales

[UncleBob]

Millions of happy NEs customers didn't stop anyone from jumping ship to the Genesis. Millions of happy SNES customers didn't stop anyone from jumping over to the USS PlayStation.  Hell, millions of happy PS2 customers didn't stop anyone from going to the 360 or the Wii.
Face it - with a few exceptions from outliers, most gamers buy the system with the games on it they want to play.  Parents buy the system that has the games on it their children want.  There's little-to-no brand loyality when it comes to these things.  If anything, it's going to be the exact opposite and not work in Nintendo's favor - Nintendo is teh kiddie and that's as far as some folks will consider them.  One token game (an RPG at that, one that isn't even Fallout/Mass Effect "mature") isn't going to make a dent in that shell any more than having an exclusive, M-rated GTA title on the handheld did.

[Chozo Ghost]

One token game (an RPG at that, one that isn't even Fallout/Mass Effect "mature") isn't going to make a dent in that shell any more than having an exclusive, M-rated GTA title on the handheld did.

That's why I said it would be the first step in that direction, but many more steps are required. You can't just release one game and then wash your hands and expect that single game to completely change your image. I'm not saying after Nintendo releases all the Rainfall games (which hopefully they will) they can just rest on their laurels and go back to their 80% casual focus and expect everything to be just fine. I'd like to see it flip around and Nintendo to have only a 20% casual focus, and everything else be for traditional video games. If that's out of the question then maybe 60/40 or in a worse case 50/50. It pains me to see casual games getting the lion's share of Nintendo's attention.

[SuperTrainStationH]

... that's out of the question then maybe 60/40 or in a worse case 50/50. It pains me to see casual games getting the lion's share of Nintendo's attention.

Do you realize that the overwhelming majority of what Nintendo themselves published and marketed for Wii consisted of titles and genres that were already a hit with Nintendo's traditional "hardcore" market prior to their audience expansion campaign?

In terms of the Mii games and their sequels and spin offs that's perhaps only a dozen explicitly casual offerings from Nintendo, and you may or may not consider the Mario Party games we would have gotten regardless of the casual push part of that as well.

How is that the "lion's share of Nintendo's attention" when on the other hand they've released DOZENS of traditional games to offset those Mii games?



These numbers only apply to North America of course, and fails to consider the 1% who were too busy partying in their penthouse apartments lording over their exploitation of the working class to take part in this chart.

[Chocobo_Rider]

Wow. A lot of chatter over a typical non-story. You don't really have to spin too hard when you have a console as successful as the Wii reaching the end of a typical life-cycle. 

Personally, Bit.Trip Complete, Kirby and Skyward Sword are still in their plastic wrap with about 7 other Wii games still on my backlog.  That should tied me over 'til DQX or Wii U - whichever comes first.

[Kairon]

That is an awesome chart.

...It includes Animal Crossing in the "traditional hardcore" segment, right? I think the thing that really gets me sad is when people somehow make it out that Animal Crossing isn't a game for Nintendo's core of fans. The mere anticipation of that franchise is 50% of the reason why I own a 3DS.

[Adrock]

/Pac-Man joke

[SuperTrainStationH]

/Pac-Man joke

When I plugged in the data and saw the result in pie chart form, a Pac-Man reference became mandatory.

And yes Kairon, that includes Animal Crossing under "traditional".

[Kairon]

And yes Kairon, that includes Animal Crossing under "traditional".

Good. ^_^

[Chozo Ghost]

In what way is Animal Crossing a "traditional hardcore" game? It came out before the Wii, sure, but its still a casual game. I can't take your pie chart seriously, because I can't help but wonder what else you counted as hardcore.

[Kairon]

The methodology of the chart states "genres, titles, and series popular with gamers prior to the Wii launch," which at least is a quantifiable, non-subjective way of categorizing games compared to "I say it's casual so it is, it just is."

And seriously, Animal Crossing dates from the N64 era in Japan, and America got it in the GC era. It wasn't the Wii's blue ocean gamers who played the game back then, it was those diehard purple lunchbox owners who were still standing by Nintendo at their lowest point in console history.

[UncleBob]

Someone take the list of Nintendo published Wii games and post them on the console forum.  Then, we can sort the list between "Core", "Casual", and "Disputed" and vote on the "Disputed" titles, then remake the Pac-Chart.

[nickmitch]

This is from Wikipedia:

        Wii Sports
        Excite Truck
        The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
        WarioWare: Smooth Moves
        Wii Play
        Super Paper Mario
        Mario Party 8
        Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree
        Pokémon Battle Revolution
        Mario Strikers Charged
        Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
        Donkey Kong Barrel Blast
        Battalion Wars 2
        Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
        Super Mario Galaxy
        Link's Crossbow Training
        Endless Ocean
        Super Smash Bros. Brawl
        Mario Kart Wii
        Wii Fit
        Wario Land: The Shake Dimension
        Wii Music
        Animal Crossing: City Folk
        Mario Super Sluggers (Japan and North America only)'
        New Play Control! Mario Power Tennis
        New Play Control! Pikmin
        New Play Control! Donkey Kong Jungle Beat
        Punch-Out!!
        Wii Sports Resort
        Metroid Prime: Trilogy
        Wii Fit Plus
        New Super Mario Bros. Wii
        Excitebots: Trick Racing (North America only)
        Endless Ocean 2: Adventures of the Deep
        Sin and Punishment: Star Successor
        Super Mario Galaxy 2
        Samurai Warriors 3 (Published by Nintendo outside of Japan)
        PokéPark Wii: Pikachu's Adventure
        Metroid: Other M
        Wii Party
        Kirby's Epic Yarn
        FlingSmash
        Donkey Kong Country Returns
        Super Mario All-Stars 25th Anniversary Edition
        Mario Sports Mix
        Wii Play Motion
        Mystery Case Files: The Malgrave Incident
        Xenoblade Chronicles
        Kirby's Return to Dream Land
        The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
        Fortune Street

    Announced for 2012
        Mario Party 9
        Rhythm Heaven Wii
        PokéPark 2: Beyond the World

Edit: Scaled back for Non-US.

[nickmitch]

This is how I'd sort them:


Casual
        Wii Sports
        Wii Play
        Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree
        Wii Fit
        Wii Music
        Wii Sports Resort
        Wii Fit Plus
        PokéPark Wii: Pikachu's Adventure
        Wii Party
        FlingSmash
        Mario Sports Mix
        Wii Play Motion
       *PokéPark 2: Beyond the World

Hardcore
        The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
        Super Paper Mario
        Mario Strikers Charged
        Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
        Battalion Wars 2
        Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
        Super Mario Galaxy
        Super Smash Bros. Brawl
        Mario Kart Wii
        Wario Land: The Shake Dimension
        Punch-Out!!
        Metroid Prime: Trilogy
        Excitebots: Trick Racing (North America only)
        Sin and Punishment: Star Successor
        Super Mario Galaxy 2
        Samurai Warriors 3 (Published by Nintendo outside of Japan)
        Metroid: Other M
        Kirby's Epic Yarn
        Donkey Kong Country Returns
        Super Mario All-Stars 25th Anniversary Edition
        Xenoblade Chronicles
        Kirby's Return to Dream Land
        The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
       *Rhythm Heaven Wii

Distputable
        Excite Truck
        WarioWare: Smooth Moves
        Mario Party 8
        Pokémon Battle Revolution
        Donkey Kong Barrel Blast
        Link's Crossbow Training
        Endless Ocean
        Animal Crossing: City Folk
        Mario Super Sluggers
        New Play Control! Mario Power Tennis
        New Play Control! Pikmin
        New Play Control! Donkey Kong Jungle Beat
        New Super Mario Bros. Wii
        Endless Ocean 2: Adventures of the Deep
        Mystery Case Files: The Malgrave Incident
        Fortune Street
       *Mario Party 9

The asterisk is for 2012 titles.

[NWR_insanolord]

Why is Excite Truck disputable when Excitebots is hardcore?

[nickmitch]

Because the only people who would've known about Excitebots are hardcore gamers since it was released with zero marketing. Plus it technically had a prequel albeit on the same system.

Excite Truck I think could go either way, but is more likely hardcore.

[Plugabugz]

Someone needs to take that entire list and bust out the venn diagrams.

[NWR_insanolord]

The way I see it, it should be phrased as "Would Nintendo have made this if they didn't have the new audience they got with the DS and Wii?" That cuts to the core of the debate: the people who are complaining that Nintendo has somehow changed. Under that definition, most of the disputable games fall under Hardcore, which probably shouldn't be called that.

[SuperTrainStationH]

"Would Nintendo have made this if they didn't have the new audience they got with the DS and Wii?"

BINGO.

This notion that anything Nintendo publishes that's not a platformer, action/adventure, or a shooter constitutes Nintendo "pandering to novices" is completely revisionist and is the complete inverse of what the so called "hardcore" demanded and expected from Nintendo prior to the launch of Wii.

Heck, the very definition of "hardcore" that's come into common use in the gaming community since the launch of the Wii is revisionist, and the fact that "hardcore" and "casual" are, even in this thread, are being treated as though they were ranks of distinction, quality, or legitimacy, rather than a simple description of a game's play style or the personal habits of gamers, is sad, even if the intention is to necessarily malign games that aren't targeted solely at the most active, passionate, players who play games as a main hobby.

FYI, that chart is derived from a YouTube video on the subject of the percentage of traditional as opposed to expanded audience titles Nintendo published for the Wii in North America, listing both types of games exactly as others have suggested be done.

The crux of everything I can expect to argue in this discussion is this:

In terms of what Nintendo themselves published and promoted for Wii, I genuinely can't understand how the lineup of titles and franchises has come to be interpreted by gamers as "Nintendo abandoning the hardcore" when nearly every single major Nintendo franchise loved by Nintendo gamers on Super Nintendo, Nintendo 64, and Nintendo Gamecube has been represented over multiple titles on the Wii, including the first console Kirby game in more than a decade, significant revivals of classic Nintendo series, Punch-Out, Donkey Kong Country, and "Excite" racing, with Wii also becoming the first Nintendo console since the NES or arguably the Super NES to feature more than only one Super Mario platformer throughout its entire lifespan. The only significant Wii absentees from Nintendo I can think of are F Zero and Star Fox (EDIT: and Pikmin), which I haven't heard many gamers clamoring for in particular, and Pilotwings, which came out on the 3DS and was panned as "casual" merely for having Miis in it, in spite of that being exactly how the Pilotwings 64 characters looked back in 1996 anyway.

[NWR_insanolord]

As for the absentees, Pikmin belongs on that list. I know it's coming, but it's skipping the Wii entirely. Also, it's fairly obscure, but I really would have liked a Custom Robo game. And Pilotwings Resort wasn't really panned for being casual as much as for being fairly lacking in content, which, although I loved the game, it was.

[Chozo Ghost]

Pikmin 3 is another example of a game which could have come to the Wii, but instead it was transferred to the Wii U. I don't blame Reggie for that though because that was an NCL decision. I also don't disapprove of it either, because at least we will get that one eventually and the Wii U also needs games so that's fine. If Nintendo said the Rainfall games were going to come to the Wii U I would be okay with that also. I'm not so picky about which console they come to, just so long as they get there at some point.

But the fact remains that there is a huge gap between when the Wii started experiencing a software drought until whenever the Wii U launches. There should have been more game releases to fill in this void. I'm sure much of the cause of this drought was Nintendo pulling the plug on a lost of projects in order to recast them as Wii U launch titles. I guess that is fair. But there still should have been more available for the Wii. If Nintendo's resources are too limited to support all their platforms simultaneously then they need to expand and buy or create more studios like Retro. History has shown over and over again that they can't count on 3rd parties to fill that void for them, so they have to do it themselves with their 1st and 2nd parties. Retro does great work, but they are one studio and they alone can't do everything that needs to be done. Nintendo needs like 5 more Retros.

[Adrock]

@insano

I think NPC Pikmin is being counted. I don't count it personally but that's the impression I got. Carry on with your discussion.

[NWR_insanolord]

Counting NPC Pikmin is like counting the VC versions of Star Fox 64 and F-Zero X as entries in those franchises. I'm glad it (and those VC games) exists, but for the purpose of this discussion that can't be counted.

[SuperTrainStationH]

I didn't count the New Play Control series in my chart or video, though I believe I may have counted Metroid Prime Trilogy on the basis that it struck me as more of a "proper Wii product" than the stand alone NPC games did due to the fact that it did include a Wii game on the same disk and wasn't being marketed solely on the basis of it being a rerelease of a Gamecube game.

Also, as I've said before, the whole notion of choosing whether or not to "blame Reggie" for this specific decision or that specific decision doesn't really have anything to do with how Nintendo of America is actually run, especially in the realm of choosing which games are and aren't considered for release, which Reggie may possibly have the least say in out of all his roles at NOA.

[thedefalcos]

I wonder if most of the people here that are critical of Nintendo are critical of them because the Wii is the only console they own. If so, then I can see why they would complain. Heck, my only console is the Wii. So, I totally understand when there is only ONE game that is worth looking forward to for all of 2012.
 
However, I have a feeling that most, if not all of you, own more than one console or are into PC games. So, I am not sure why it is so important to most of you to feel like Nintendo is not doing enough.  You have PLENTY of games to play. It's either because:
 
a) You are an old-school gamer and can remember the days when a Nintendo was all you needed for all genres and major franchises. We'll never go back to that, so good luck wishing for it.
 
b) You're expectations were probably a little too high when you first bought a Wii and are now feeling buyer's remorse. This is the most understandable. However, if you bought a Wii anytime from 2008 onward then that's on you. You should have known better.
 
c) You are a fan of Nintendo and want to see them succeed no matter what. I find these sorts of comments a little weird. Maybe it's based on nostalgia, but other than that- it's not like they are a football team. They're a company! Was anyone butt-hurt when SEGA stopped making consoles? No. Because two of the three last consoles they produced (SEGA CD, SATURN, and to some extent DC) sucked. We showed our loyalty (or lack of) with our wallets.
 
d) You are an armchair business consultant and see Nintendo's decisions in the past two years as poor. Okay, fine. Maybe they were. But, hindsight is 20/20. Why don't you go back and complain that Nintendo should have went to CD based technology in the 90s? Or made the Gamecube a multimedia hub? Or even as recent as 6 years ago when the Wii should have went HD. Sony has had two HOT consoles and one semi-dud console. MS hasn't been around enough to judge.  Atari had one. Sega had one. Ninty has had THREE (arguably five) great consoles! They will make mistakes, but they are doing just fine in comparison.
 
It's already been said in this thread that the Rainfall games wouldn't make a dent. It is too late!  You want those games? That's understandable. You and about 500,000 people in a country of 300,000,000 want those games. Be happy you're getting one of them.
 
I think people need to get off of Reggie's back, go play Xenoblade when it comes out, and play the gazillion other games on the other consoles, or do like me and save up to buy the WiiU on day one!
 
 

[Chozo Ghost]

Was anyone butt-hurt when SEGA stopped making consoles? No.

Actually, yes.