Topic: 3DS Analogue stick/Circle pad

[HellsAttack]

Do you think the Circle Pad Pro is required for Snake Eater 3D?

[TJ Spyke]

It's already been confirmed that it's not required. No game announced to support it so far will require it and I doubt any ever will.

[Chozo Ghost]

It's already been confirmed that it's not required. No game announced to support it so far will require it and I doubt any ever will.

That will change later this year when the 3DS revision comes out with CPP built into it.

[TJ Spyke]

I don't think that will ever happen. For one, I don't see any game requiring it (I think we would have had one at least announced by now if they were gonna), and if they were gonna do it then I think the games would come out first and THEN the revision.

[ejamer]

Do you think the Circle Pad Pro is required for Snake Eater 3D?

Required to play Snake Eater 3D, no.  But all early reports (including from NWR) I've read so far say the game really needs an extra analog stick to play well... Maybe things have changed? I'm not buying the game without finding out.

[Chozo Ghost]

I don't think that will ever happen. For one, I don't see any game requiring it (I think we would have had one at least announced by now if they were gonna), and if they were gonna do it then I think the games would come out first and THEN the revision.

Well, the way I see it a revision of the 3DS is inevitable because every other Nintendo handheld has typically had at least two and sometimes three revisions, so it would be odd if the 3DS didn't have at least one. Also, its extremely unlikely that any revision would have the exact same size and dimensions as the current 3DS does. It will either be larger or smaller (most likely larger), so this means it would be incompatible with the CPP attachment which snugly fits the 3DS like a glove, so even a small change in size will make it not fit with the CPP.

This means either Nintendo will have to release a new modified CPP attachment to fit the revision, or (and I think more likely) the revision will just incorporate the dual analog directly into the system by default.

And once it is built into the system by default you can bet that developers will start designing games from that point on with those features in mind. The reason why there are no games out now which require the CPP is because development on those games started a long time ago before the attachment was announced, and so any game which uses it just tacked that on at the last minute as an option. It will take time, but eventually there will be games which have been built from the ground up with this feature in mind. We might hear something at E3 when a lot of future games will be announced.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Nintendo could make A 3DS revision thicker and it would still fit inside the CPP without a problem.

[Chozo Ghost]

Nintendo could make A 3DS revision thicker and it would still fit inside the CPP without a problem.

But making the system thicker won't allow the screens to become larger. The only advantage I can see in making it thicker is that would allow more room for a bigger/better battery, but that reason alone would hardly be enough to warrant an entire revision. There has to be something more to it.

[Adrock]

A thicker system would also make the Circle Pad Pro not flush with new design which could be uncomfortable. Making the entire system larger to accommodate a larger battery is trumped by the fact that Nintendo could easily just include a larger capacity battery that is the same size as the current one.

There are absolutely no downsides to just including the right circle pad in a revision. Nintendo can pretend it doesn't exist and never/rarely use it but it might as well be there for everyone else.

[Chozo Ghost]

A thicker system would also make the Circle Pad Pro not flush with new design which could be uncomfortable. Making the entire system larger to accommodate a larger battery is trumped by the fact that Nintendo could easily just include a larger capacity battery that is the same size as the current one.

There are absolutely no downsides to just including the right circle pad in a revision. Nintendo can pretend it doesn't exist and never/rarely use it but it might as well be there for everyone else.

What would including CPP to the 3DS add to the manufacturing costs? I bet it wouldn't cost Nintendo more than $5-$10 to do it, and that is no doubt less than the markup they are making on the 3DS now. So if they are making $20 markup, then they could include the CPP built into a revision and (assuming there are not other cost increases) they would still either be making a profit or breaking even and therefore not have to increase the price for consumers.

[Adrock]

It's probably less than that. It just doesn't seem worth it for Nintendo to make a separate CPP for a revision when the alternative for them internally is to pretend a built-in right circle pad isn't there (if they're against using it). They could potentially make a profit on the peripheral but it would never be a significant source of income for them. I definitely see Nintendo shrugging their shoulders and saying, "**** it." Why go through the trouble when adding a few cents to manufacturing completely solves the issue of marketing a separate product (a new CPP)?

[BlackNMild2k1]

It would cost them change to add buttons, not dollars... Well certainly not $10+

But I will only upgrade for an XL edition and that will have more than enough room for CPP additions built in.

Edit: don't forget that the CPP is moor than just an extra slide pad. It's also the extra shoulder buttons.

[Chozo Ghost]

It's probably less than that. It just doesn't seem worth it for Nintendo to make a separate CPP for a revision when the alternative for them internally is to pretend a built-in right circle pad isn't there (if they're against using it).

That's what I'm thinking. There are several reasons why I would seriously bet money the CPP is going to be in a future revision.

1) The original rumor of the CPP said that it is, and since that rumor has already been proven half right with the attachment, what reason is there to doubt the other half?

2) Like you said, they would have to release a new CPP attachment for any revision, so its easier to just include it anyway even if they don't plan to use it.

3) I think its part of Nintendo's long term strategy to position the 3DS as an optional controller replacement for the Wii U, and as we've seen at E3 last year the Wii U's tablet controller has dual analog, so that means in order for the 3DS to serve as a fully functional Wii U tablet replacement it also needs to have the same buttons/inputs. The CPP attachment adds that, but its more ideal to just have it integrated by default.

So for those three reasons I would bet money on it because I think its a safe bet. The only thing that's hard to understand is why dual analogs weren't in the original 3DS model? Obviously someone goofed up. Maybe things were rushed... I don't know. But it looks like Nintendo sees they made a mistake and are trying to remedy it.

[Adrock]

3) I think its part of Nintendo's long term strategy to position the 3DS as an optional controller replacement for the Wii U, and as we've seen at E3 last year the Wii U's tablet controller has dual analog, so that means in order for the 3DS to serve as a fully functional Wii U tablet replacement it also needs to have the same buttons/inputs. The CPP attachment adds that, but its more ideal to just have it integrated by default.

As long as this is in addition to supporting more than 1 tablet controller. Using 3DS in place of the tablet controller works but doesn't work. Having a much smaller touch screen that's also a different aspect ratio limits its usefulness.

The only thing that's hard to understand is why dual analogs weren't in the original 3DS model? Obviously someone goofed up. Maybe things were rushed... I don't know. But it looks like Nintendo sees they made a mistake and are trying to remedy it.

Hardware is in development for years so it's doubtful that Nintendo rushed anything. This was deliberate. I was always under the impression that Nintendo was trying to discourage (but not eliminate) porting console games to 3DS. That's what made DS such a success. One simply couldn't find many of the same type of games on home consoles. Not having a complete controller, forces developers to think outside the box. That's typical Nintendo passive aggressiveness. However, instead of encouraging new solutions and alternative thinking, it just pissed everyone off. Normally, 3rd parties respond by shunning Nintendo but Nintendo's hold on the handheld market is too strong and dropping 3DS is simply leaving money on the table. Capcom played their hand beautifully by dangling Monster Hunter and most likely threatening to develop MH4 for Vita. With 3DS struggling and the prospect of taking a major asset from Sony, Nintendo folded. I doubt Nintendo will ever publicly admit that they made a major design faux pas but it doesn't matter. They'll be laughing all the way to bank, especially if they scored exclusivity.

[Mop it up]

This situation is surprisingly similar to what happened with the PlayStation, so I think we can look to that as a good indicator as to how this will play out. The analogue controller was introduced for the PlayStation fairly early on, and quickly became the system's bundled controller. However, the number of games which actually require the analogue controller could probably be counted on one hand (the only one I know of myself is Ape Escape). Even five years after it came out, games could still be played with the old analogue-less controller just fine.

Now, I think the 3DS has sold more than the PlayStation did before the analogue controller came out, and will sell millions more before any eventual revision with the extra circle pad and buttons comes out. So if the PlayStation with its small number of non-analogue controllers still doesn't require the analogue controller in practically every game, then the 3DS isn't going to require the second circle pad and shoulder buttons for practically every game. There's no indication to believe otherwise at the current time.

[Chozo Ghost]

Maybe Nintendo thought just one analog stick would be sufficient, because that was all the PSP had. Maybe they figured the Vita was just going to have one analog also... but then once they found out that the Vita was in fact going to have two, maybe that was the factor which made them decide to change things.

Maybe there won't be any games which outright force you to use the 2nd analog, but there will probably a lot of games which are really awkward and difficult to play without it, so even if its not required you probably want to have it anyway. I think it will be a requirement for Wii U compatibility, though.