Topic: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs

[ShyGuy]

What do you need 100+ gigs for anyhow? Piracy?

[broodwars]

What do you need 100+ gigs for anyhow? Piracy?

Full downloaded games, demos/game trials, DLC packs, game installs, and videos.  That eats up space very quickly, even on the 360 where installing is not mandatory (but can help very much in speeding up loading times).

[Mop it up]

Did people complain this much about the lack of a hard drive in the 3DS?

[ShyGuy]

So wait, you care about speed when its dvd vs hard drive, but don't care about speed when it's hard drive vs solid state memory?

[BlackNMild2k1]

Loading times will already be improved therefore eliminating the need for game installs by not using a 1xBluray drive and instead using a much more recent 8xBluray drive instead1

Most DLC is under 100MB, demos can get a little big, but they can be made to be within a certain size limit if need be and I don't think Nintendo will be allowing full retail games to be downloaded.

I'm not sure why you would have videos (gameplay videos? videochat logs?), but I'm sure there would be better places to store them, like online?

[Jonnyboy117]

You can forget any kind of reliance on cloud storage. That is far outside of Nintendo's networking capabilities. Even if they hired an outside firm to manage it for them, it wouldn't be a key feature because a large percentage of console owners don't connect their systems online at all.

[Enner]

If this turns out to be true, I guess Gamecube games on Virtual Console will be out of the question at worst or difficult to manage at best. That is assuming the SD Card will work in the Super Wii as it does in the Wii.

Hey, maybe they'll let us use a hard drive through USB. That would be swell.

Why would you assume that? Why wouldn't you assume that it would work the same was as it does in the 3DS and allow you to launch directly from the SD card?

Oh!

Because I don't have a 3DS and wasn't aware of this particular ability.
Nintendo seems to be recognizing the importance of a system's storage solutions so I do hope that Project Cafe will have something that makes it easy to store gigs of stuff if I so choose so. I guess SD cards could work, but I would at least prefer the ability to hook up a hard drive.

[Adrock]

Loading times will already be improved therefore eliminating the need for game installs by not using a 1xBluray drive and instead using a much more recent 8xBluray drive instead1

You really think Nintendo would include a faster Blu Ray drive (this is assuming they go BR)? And I recall you mentioning a non-proprietary HDD in the other topic? Are we talking about the same Nintendo? Because the Nintendo I'm privy to makes everything proprietary and takes the cheaper option every single time. I sure would have liked a faster optical drive when playing Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

[Kytim89]

I am still going with my hunch that Nintendo will provide a HDD port for the Super Wii and expect the consumer to provide their own hard drive because the technology is so widely proliferated that anyone ahould be able to get a large enough HDD to accomodate their own needs and tastes. Let's also assume that Nintendo will allow external HDD support via a USB port, which would be another better solution. Nintendo got criticized big time for the way the Wii's system memory was handled with the SD card, so I see them bypassing all the BS and allowing consumers the quickest and easiest way to solve the storage issues: HDD.
 
But what about the longevity of the HDD technology? It would seem that although the technology does have moments of faultiness, overall the technology is relatively cheap and easy to replace that Nintendo should be alarmed with failing HDDs.
 
 

[happyastoria]

I have demos, games, HD movies on my PS3 and it's only taking up 17 gigs. Really, you people are crazy. You don't like it? Don't buy it, simple as that. Plus, most people don't but DLC. For instance, I don't and many of my friends who are "hardcore" gamers don't either.

[King of Twitch]

I doubt cloud storage would work for people in larger cities, it just isn't feasible.

[Oblivion]

I have demos, games, HD movies on my PS3 and it's only taking up 17 gigs. Really, you people are crazy. You don't like it? Don't buy it, simple as that. Plus, most people don't but DLC. For instance, I don't and many of my friends who are "hardcore" gamers don't either.

Same. In fact, I've only used around 4 GB on mine.

[BlackNMild2k1]

If this turns out to be true, I guess Gamecube games on Virtual Console will be out of the question at worst or difficult to manage at best. That is assuming the SD Card will work in the Super Wii as it does in the Wii.

Hey, maybe they'll let us use a hard drive through USB. That would be swell.

Why would you assume that? Why wouldn't you assume that it would work the same was as it does in the 3DS and allow you to launch directly from the SD card?

Oh!

Because I don't have a 3DS and wasn't aware of this particular ability.
Nintendo seems to be recognizing the importance of a system's storage solutions so I do hope that Project Cafe will have something that makes it easy to store gigs of stuff if I so choose so. I guess SD cards could work, but I would at least prefer the ability to hook up a hard drive.

If you weren't aware of that, then you might not have also been aware that Nintendo packed in a free 2GB SD card with the 3DS too.

So it's entirely possible and plausible that if there is no HDD built in, that Nintendo would pack in a free SD card (already installed) to increase storage space out of the box.

I would guess at minimum 8GB and at best 32GB (like my phone)
4GB SD card goes for less than $10 ($4 - $8)
8GB SD card retails for close to $15 ($11 - $18)
16GB SD card goes for around $25 ($20 - $30)
32GB SD card will run you about $50 ($44 - $56)

I would imagine in the bulk Nintendo would order these things, they could get them at a fraction of the price I would pay above and cost them next to nothing in the grand scheme of things to include out of the box.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Loading times will already be improved therefore eliminating the need for game installs by not using a 1xBluray drive and instead using a much more recent 8xBluray drive instead1

You really think Nintendo would include a faster Blu Ray drive (this is assuming they go BR)? And I recall you mentioning a non-proprietary HDD in the other topic? Are we talking about the same Nintendo? Because the Nintendo I'm privy to makes everything proprietary and takes the cheaper option every single time. I sure would have liked a faster optical drive when playing Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

Nintendo didn't use proprietary SD cards even though they did sell a Nintendo branded version for 30% above retail value for those that didn't know any better.

I assume they might do the same with HDD's too just so that there is one in the console gaming section for the casuals to purchase without having to go shop around or wander around the store.

[Enner]

I have demos, games, HD movies on my PS3 and it's only taking up 17 gigs. Really, you people are crazy. You don't like it? Don't buy it, simple as that. Plus, most people don't but DLC. For instance, I don't and many of my friends who are "hardcore" gamers don't either.

Same. In fact, I've only used around 4 GB on mine.

My perception of data storage is not in-tune to home console systems at all since my gaming system other than a Wii is a PC with a 500 GB hard drive full of music, pictures, videos, and games. The Super Wii will probably have mostly games on a drive and little of the rest. Blindly assuming (once again) that Nintendo won't go Steam-y with all games, I can see how having a big SD card will be pretty okay.

If this turns out to be true, I guess Gamecube games on Virtual Console will be out of the question at worst or difficult to manage at best. That is assuming the SD Card will work in the Super Wii as it does in the Wii.

Hey, maybe they'll let us use a hard drive through USB. That would be swell.

Why would you assume that? Why wouldn't you assume that it would work the same was as it does in the 3DS and allow you to launch directly from the SD card?

Oh!

Because I don't have a 3DS and wasn't aware of this particular ability.
Nintendo seems to be recognizing the importance of a system's storage solutions so I do hope that Project Cafe will have something that makes it easy to store gigs of stuff if I so choose so. I guess SD cards could work, but I would at least prefer the ability to hook up a hard drive.

If you weren't aware of that, then you might not have also been aware that Nintendo packed in a free 2GB SD card with the 3DS too.

So it's entirely possible and plausible that if there is no HDD built in, that Nintendo would pack in a free SD card (already installed) to increase storage space out of the box.

I would guess at minimum 8GB and at best 32GB (like my phone)
4GB SD card goes for less than $10 ($4 - $8)
8GB SD card retails for close to $15 ($11 - $18)
16GB SD card goes for around $25 ($20 - $30)
32GB SD card will run you about $50 ($44 - $56)

I would imagine in the bulk Nintendo would order these things, they could get them at a fraction of the price I would pay above and cost them next to nothing in the grand scheme of things to include out of the box.

Oh, I was aware of the nice little SD card that came packed in. I just wasn't aware of the details in how the card can be used and accessed.

[ShyGuy]

Is the iPhone4 more powerful than the 360?

[Stogi]

I see no reason for an incredibly large HDD, and I also see no reason to limit that feature. SD cards are good enough for most people, but allowing people to install their own HDD's would be a much more elegant solution.

If they are really trying to capture the 'hardcore' market, they shouldn't contain themselves.

[BlackNMild2k1]

and for everyone that thinks that just because no HDD is in the box means that there won't be any HDD support, just remember that Nintendo almost pulled the trigger on HDD support for the Wii and even updated the firmware with some USB HDD & keyboard compatibility.

I just assume that they figured there was no point to HD support on the Wii since none of the older games could even take advantage of it and they should save it for the next round of consoles.


Time for a trip in the way back machine
~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/03/29/nintendo-revolution-to-support-external-hdds-and-other-3rd-party-s/

During a recent conversation with CNN (focused on cheaper game prices), Nintendo President Satoru Iwata suggested that the Revolution would support a multitude of storage options. Referring to the console's USB ports, Iwata confirmed that "practically any storage method can be used."

The Nintendo Revolution will not feature an internal hard drive. Instead, the unit will utilize 512 MB of flash memory and built-in SD memory card support. In addition, Iwata's remarks imply that Nintendo intends to, ultimately, leave the best storage solution up to the consumer's discretion — a freedom that could give Nintendo an edge (in terms of consumer satisfaction) over Sony and Microsoft.

And we all know that Nintendo never lets an idea just die... it just get thrown back into the pot to cook some more until the time is ready.
I think that time is now. and I know that we are ready.

[motang]

As long as it's expandable I see no problem. The 3DS is expandable, it comes with 2 gig SD card, and I can swap it out anytime I want.

[TheBlackCat]

Maybe this is a misunderstanding and it is really the controllers that have 8GB of flash storage.  That would actually be reasonable, probably adding $3-4 to the price of the controller by the time the system actually comes out.

[ShyGuy]

there is no console, it's all in the controller.

[Enner]

The home console is actually just streaming the video and audio to the TV. The true power is in your hands!

[Chozo Ghost]

It isn't because they're doing it different, it's because they're doing it different and WORSE.

I legitimately consider it to be inferior because it blantantly is.

Its inferior in terms of cost and storage capacity, but you have to admit there are some aspects to it which are superior to a HDD. For example, you don't have moving parts which means it isn't likely to wear out. Plus even though the cost per GB is much greater than that of a HDD, it is cheaper to toss an 8GB flash thing onto the console than to add even the cheapest available HDD. 8GB of flash may cost $8 or something, but a hard drive might cost $50, so flash is still cheaper per unit. Its only much more expensive on a per GB basis. I guess the read/write access speed of flash is also much quicker than that of a HDD and that may be useful somehow. *shrug*

I wish it could be both instead of either or. $10 onboard flash and a $50 hard drive is still only $60 and if that meant paying that much more for the console I would do it. Having both would be the best of both worlds.

[Ceric]

Going to put another bit of my 2 cents in here.  Flash is fast.  I recently bought a MacBook Air for my wife because it has almost no moving parts, she couldn't break the power adapter tip like she normally does with the Magsafe plug on it, and the aluminum case and not moving part makes it relatively drop resistant.  Spec wise I opted for the tricked out 11 inch so it has the slightly faster processor but I really did that for the more memory.  All this is to tell you that spec wise its really equivalent to a computer from about 4 years ago.  My machine upstairs is technically faster.  The thing blazes.  10 seconds from power button to Useable OS.  3 Second Shutdown.  Instant waking and sleeping.  You click something and the animation is whats holding its back.  We are talking serious responsiveness here.  All that is due to its use of Flash for storage.

[TheBlackCat]

Going to put another bit of my 2 cents in here.  Flash is fast. 

Flash is fast for reading, but it is slow for writing.  The things people are talking about here, using it is a temporary storage location for streaming or in-game content, would see no benefit because they require both reading and writing. 

As I pointed out before, Microsoft tried using flash memory as a temporary storage location in Windows Vista, but the slow write times meant it had no real benefit.  Intel even released a dedicated mini flash memory drive to take advantage of this, called Turbo Memory, but once again the slow write times meant it didn't help in real life.

So it does not offer any benefit as a temporary storage locations, the space is too small to be useful as a permanent storage location, this is a console not a handheld so the small difference in power consumption is not a real issue, since this is a console it isn't going to move while running so the moving parts are not a major issue, and it costs about ten times more per GB.  There are simply no benefits whatsoever to using flash memory in a console for consumers.  None.  The only possible benefit is that the lowest-price flash memory might cost less than the lowest-price hard drives (it is already hard to find any flash memory below 2 gb these days, by late next year 4 gb will probably already be on the way out).  But that is simply Nintendo cutting corners to the detriment of consumers.