Topic: Kids Love Mario's GC Games

[KDR_11k]

In particular what Mario games do you judge not fun? (hence worthy of retiring Mario)

It's not so bad that they become bad games but they would have been better without that annoying plumber in them and maybe Miyamoto locked into the basement while they're making up the story (He reportedly vetoed a much deeper storyline in Wind Waker). Mario games are often VERY bad in the story department, even compared to other games in the genre (either very simplistic or downright stupid stories. Dance to retrieve the magical notes???).

Would Mario Kart be worse if it had original characters in it instead of the Mario cast? Do games like DDR with Mario, Mario Baseball, Donkey Konga, Mario Smash Football, Mario Tennis, Mario Golf, etc really need the Mario cast? Personally I'm tired of the Mushroom Kingdom and its inhabitants. I mean, how many new faces have joined Nintendo's lineup this generation (not counting the Pokemon because those aren't really characters)? If they keep up this pace they'll end up with no more characters they could add to Smash Bros succ(Revolution). As others are stagnating in gameplay Nintendo is stagnating in settings for their games.

its an excellent expansion of the Mario universe. You're a fool if you can't see this.

Poland was an excellent expansion of the Third Reich but that doesn't mean the Reich was any good now does it?
Come to think of it... A Kingdom of mushroom people ruled by a despotic human leader who needs to feed her flesh eating umbrella in order to feel anything, abuses the citizens for many things (Toad as a human/mushroom shield in SSBM?) and quells any uprising with the help of her two guards, judges and executioners, Mario and Luigi, who relentlessly use violence to kill the people of the neighbouring Koopa Kingdom and even enlist the help of a dinosaur that devours anyone in its path? But then again, Mario is more like Stalin.

odifiend: I don't know about you but I count Donkey Kong as "Mario cast".

[31 Flavas]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k

but they would have been better without that annoying plumber in them

Well, I think we've found the problem here. You have something personal going on with, or against, Mario. You do realize the rest of the world has no problem with Mario and infact enjoy him very very much, right? I mean .... honestly, what is this news post about? Hence, why we want Mario and cast, not anyone else, in DDR, gokarts, on the tennis court, and out on the baseball diamond.

[Mario]

I wont buy a game without Mario in it.

[odifiend]

Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
I wont buy a game without Mario in it.

Yeah and I'm sure you are not alone.  I don't mean to offend but you are the problem.  Games more solid than Nintendo games won't sell.  Even other Nintendo made games won't sell because Mario isn't in them- which means that as a business Nintendo would be stupid not include Mario in every game possible, even if they are 3rd party.
I love how Nintendo fans will talk about Nintendo being so innovative and then not give any of Nintendo's games without Mario a second look...  Oh well, Battalion Wars with Mario and Fire Emblem with Mario might be cool... :/

[KnowsNothing]

I won't buy a game without Daisy in it.

[mantidor]

None of these Nintendo fanboys gave Nintendogs or Pokemon a chance because Mario wasnt in the games

[odifiend]

Pokemon came out before any of this Mario proliferation was a problem.  Nintendogs apparently has struck a chord with nongamers (to the point people are buying all 3 copies like Pokemon funnily enough).  Nice try though...

[wandering]

Eh, Nintendo's been whoring Mario out sense the very beginning (see: tennis, Dr. Mario,  mario's time machine, etc). Sure, I think he's been overused a bit much lately, but I think it's understandable because Mario sells and Nintendo's been hurting financially lately.

Quote
Originally posted by: Odifiend
It would almost be better if Nintendo had made new characters to be having parties and playing sports... [...] If this stays the same and never changes, they'll wither and die.

Right, the problem with this is, there are already a million sports games out there. And now, there are million genric kart games and party games too. Besides, it's FUN to pit charachters you already know against each other in games like tennis. That's why most sports/party games use charachters you already know (either in the form of fictional mascot charachters or real-life sports figures). Heck, even racing games draw people in by using real cars. Who wants to play Generic Tennis 2006 with fictional humans?

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
and maybe Miyamoto locked into the basement while they're making up the story (He reportedly vetoed a much deeper storyline in Wind Waker).

Yes, just what Zelda needs....hour long cut-scenes.
Seriously, people keep talking about how videogames need to focus more on story....but, you know what, they don't. Videogames aren't about stories. Giving mario 64 an in-depth story about Bowser's attempt to take over the muchroom kingdom by invading on the ruse that princess peach was stockpiling bomb-ombs of mass destruction while ignoring international bodies like the the United Federation of Vegetables, wouldn't have made flying around in the clouds anymore magical and fun.

[Ian Sane]

One simple fact proves that Mario is overused: Super Mario Sunshine didn't sell Gamecubes.

Mario used to be a big deal.  A Mario game was an event.  Super Mario Sunshine should have been an event.  It was the first "real" Mario game in six years.  But nobody but us hardcores noticed that because to the general public Mario games come out every few months so Super Mario Sunshine wasn't anything special.  With Mario it should just be "a new Mario game is out" and BOOM million copies sold.

I think Mario would be a bigger deal if there just wasn't so much stuff with him in it.  A lot of it is redundant money grabs too and it just makes Nintendo look like unoriginal rehashers.  Do we need an annual Mario Party game?  No.  Do we need Mario in unrelated EA games?  No.  Was there any reason whatsoever for Camelot to make sequels to Mario Golf and Tennis when the N64 nailed the formula pretty much perfectly and there are tons of other sports Nintendo could use which they did ANYWAY with soccer, baseball and basketball?  No.  Do we need a Mario pinball game that plays like crap?  No.  Do we need every Mario related game under the sun ported to a portable system?  No.  Nintendo doesn't have to stop making Mario spinoffs altogether they just need to get rid of the filler and that would improve both Mario's and Nintendo's image.

"Mario sells and Nintendo's been hurting financially lately."

Mario spinoffs sell games to an existing userbase but they don't sell consoles.  If they did then the Cube wouldn't be in last place.  Nintendo needs something to sell more consoles and more Mario and more franchises period aren't the answer because the Cube is PROOF that those aren't enough to sell consoles.  No one who didn't buy a Gamecube to play a billion Mario spinoffs would buy any other Nintendo console to do the same thing.

[31 Flavas]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane

One simple fact proves that Mario is overused: Super Mario Sunshine didn't sell Gamecubes.

Yet, Mario DS sold millions of DSes and is top selling DS game.... Yep, Mario is really burned out and overused.

[nickmitch]

SM64 DS was something everybody loved but with extra stuff. which is why it sold. Let's not for get that it was also the only good game out on the DS for a while.

[mantidor]

Mario Sunshine didnt sell as much because it was recieved poorly by the stupid gaming community because it was so different, it had nothing to do with Mario being overused.

[wandering]

Well, I think all the mario games could've lead to sunshine's relatively low sales, that's an interesting point.
...but, more likely, I think, is that sunshine's late (i.e., not at launch) release date, combined with the game's somewhat underwhelming content (don't get me wrong, jumping around in that thing is INCREDIBLE....but you have to admit the game is no Super Mario 64), combined with a surprising number of apparently competent 3d platformers this gen (Jak and Daxter, etc), are what lead to the game's disappointing (though still quite good) numbers.

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Mario spinoffs sell games to an existing userbase but they don't sell consoles.

Regardless, they still sell well and make money.

Though I do agree with you that it's troubling that Mario (and Zelda, and Metroid) games used to be for everyone, but now it seems they're only really fro the initiated. Though I'm not sure spin-off games are necessarily to blame for that, so much as the advent of ultra-violent, ultra-freeranging, ultra-epic games that have eclipsed Nintendo games in the eyes of the average gamer.

What Nintendo needs at this point is something to draw gamers back. Something radical that will make gaming more fun and yet more intuitive. Something like, I don't know, a freehand motion controller.