Topic: FORCE FEEDBACK GYROS FOR THE REV---

[slingshot]

Wow- you must read this article:          http://www.projectcoe.com/Nin_SpecialFeatures/rev.html

Here is the meat of the article, but the beginning explains more technical stuff-  THis is AWESOME!

The idea would be to have the revolution controllers feature gyroscopic sensors that will act in a similar way as the experiment above. For example, if you have driven a car you know that when you turn the steering wheel it pushes in the opposite direction you want to turn because it wants to keep its original position. This same idea would be how the gyro sensors in the controllers would operate. Up until now, simulation in games have only been done through visuals, with the assistance of sound. As you play a racing game, you know you are making a turn because the image on screen shows your car turning. If it is a drastic turn, sound helps convey the idea because the tires might screech. Adding gyroscopes to the controllers would make the biggest impact though. Not only would you see and hear your car turning, but the sensors on the controller would make you feel the car turning, much like in real life. Of course, driving simulators would not be the only ones affected by the gyroscopes. Imagine a Zelda game; you will actually feel that you swing your sword horizontally because the the sensors would reply by stimulating your hands in one direction or the other. Firing a beam of energy in a Metroid game would make you feel as if you are pushed back due to the reaction of the shot. Adding this element to controllers would not only allow for precise control, but also allow for a life-like way to interact with your games. You no longer push or press buttons and move sticks in order to perform an action, that action will feel natural and help you progress through the game

[PaLaDiN]

Whee, more rumors.

I can't wait until E3 when Nintendo has to break a whole lot of hearts because all the rumors are physically impossible to reconcile.

And then there'll be a whole lot of bitching about Nintendo's disappointment and I'll have to hand out a whole lot of cookies.

[mantidor]

LOL its true, it doesnt matter what Nintendo does, the "dissapointed" people are going to abound all over the internet after E3, its going to be as annoying as the DS vs psp endless discussions....

[nickmitch]

It'd be the most hilarious thing if nintendo made a controller that was all the rumors put together.

[pudu]

Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
Whee, more rumors.

I can't wait until E3 when Nintendo has to break a whole lot of hearts because all the rumors are physically impossible to reconcile.

And then there'll be a whole lot of bitching about Nintendo's disappointment and I'll have to hand out a whole lot of cookies.

I agree.  There are tons of rumors about Revolution.  It's hardly anyone's fault though, it's just the nature of the internet.  Well...I guess I'm partially wrong, Nintendo has something to do with it.  Choosing the codename to be Revolution is perhaps the dumbest thing they could have done.  Who at Nintendo thought that choosing the codename Revolution and then not giving any details supporting their claim for months would help?  Sure it's helping hype it because of speculation and rumors but is this what they want?  The are setting themselves up for failure.  I don't think that this repetition of the word Revolution is going to convince anyone of its greatness before they experience it (*cough* Halo 2 *cough*) so they will blindly agree it's awsome because their isn't anything to base it off of.

Here's an example that comes to mind:  One of my all-time favorite movies is the Matrix (1).  With all of the hype the sequals had going for them while they were in production and the huge amount of fans of the original, people were expecting nothing but greatness.  When the next movie in the trilogy came out it was widely slammed as being uninspired, yada yada yada.  Unfortunately I even got affected by this general illwill and it affected how much I enjoyed watching it.  When it comes down to it though, if the movie had been seen without the knowledge of what it was SUPPOSED to be it would been deemed simply an average movie that was pretty good (what it should have been reckognised as), but by hyping it it was basically screwed before it was even released.

Has Nintendo screwed themselves over?  I guess we'll just have to wait for E3 as everyone's saying.  Thing is, don't get your hopes up too high, just take whatever Nintendo comes up with for what it is and let it sink in before you get angry many of the outlandish rumors and whatnot aren't true.

[nemo_83]

What is going to disappoint is if they show the Revolution with the gyros and everyone gets excited before being put back in their seats with the realization that like the DS there are no games.  Where are the shooters, RPGs, RTSs, etc?  That is what people are wondering about the DS and that may be what they are asking about the Revolution at E3 this year.  Where are the games that actually use this new hardware?  The hardware is there with the DS, but where are the games that use it for more than the novelty of slicing carrots?  I don't want to buy a new expensive system with gyros if the only games available are Wario Touch and Feel and Mario Lever Puller.

[PaLaDiN]

"Mario Lever Puller."

I want you to know that you are completely and utterly depraved. Is nothing sacred? I thought your "mature" Mario sketches were kind of pushing the limits, but that suggestion right there is truly the product of a sick, twisted mind. Go seek counseling.

"It'd be the most hilarious thing if nintendo made a controller that was all the rumors put together."

You mean, a gyroscopic supertouchscreen split into two halves and capable of giving feeling sensations?

Come on now. Consider the female anatomy and think about why that wouldn't work. The human race as we know it would die out.

[nemo_83]

Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
"Mario Lever Puller."

I want you to know that you are completely and utterly depraved. Is nothing sacred? I thought your "mature" Mario sketches were kind of pushing the limits, but that suggestion right there is truly the product of a sick, twisted mind. Go seek counseling.

"It'd be the most hilarious thing if nintendo made a controller that was all the rumors put together."

You mean, a gyroscopic supertouchscreen split into two halves and capable of giving feeling sensations?

Come on now. Consider the female anatomy and think about why that wouldn't work. The human race as we know it would die out.

I was just thinking they would use a gimmick like use the revolutionary technology to have us pull the levers in games by  tilting the controller.  How is that depraved?  I was just thinking worst case scenario joke.

[Truthliesn1seyes]

You can't compare the DS to the REV.  The DS was obviously a rushed product.  The REV I'm sure will be planned out alot better.  I highly doubt we'll see a lack of games on launch.  Nintendo has been outsourcing so many games as of late that I'm sure they're using that time and resources to get the REV up to snuff on launch.  If you look at the past generation onto the current one, Nintendo always fixes their mistakes.  The N64 launched with very little games and variety, it supported cartridges and lacked 3rd party support.  Gamecube released with a wider range of games, finally moved onto disks and their 3rd party situation is alot better now than it was during the n64 era.  They didn't launch with a mario this generation which some may argue was a mistake.  So far we're hearing the launch is going to launch with a mario game plus a zelda.  I'm not sure bout that but Mario should be a sure bet.  The launch lineup for the REV ( I believe) will be much stronger than the Gamecubes.  

As for everyone not applying the features of the DS for anything trully worth your while, give it time.  As has been discussed in other forums, the DS was rushed to take thunder away from the PSP.  We won't really see the true potential of the DS till sometime this yr.  As a result of the REV's release being much more planned out and focused, I'm sure we'll see their games take advantage of their features moreso than the launch games of the DS had.

[PaLaDiN]

"I was just thinking they would use a gimmick like use the revolutionary technology to have us pull the levers in games by tilting the controller. How is that depraved? I was just thinking worst case scenario joke."

Don't worry, I know you didn't meant it that way, I was just poking fun.

Your secret's safe with me.

"As for everyone not applying the features of the DS for anything trully worth your while, give it time. As has been discussed in other forums, the DS was rushed to take thunder away from the PSP. We won't really see the true potential of the DS till sometime this yr."

Or right now, if you're in Japan. I hear Kirby's quite a game.

[slingshot]

I don't think that the DS was meant for hard core gamers that love shooters.  I think it was meant to broaden and expand the
market more towards some people that DON"T like Shooters- or that think shooters are the definition of games.

There is a huge market out there for younger girls ages 8-12 that don't play games as much as boys in that age group.  
I think the DS could tap that market very slyly.  Interactive touchscreen shopping and dressup games- this virtual pup game
they have.  Basically all the toys that you see for girls now- turned into a video game with the touch screen interaction
would boom in the vacuum of the market.  Personally- I think the focus of DS is outside the hardcore gamer circle- but if
they cann include them with great "questy" RPG style games- they will have a wicked hit on their hands.

I also go back to the "virtual stock market" game idea for business folks- how about a "game" that is meant for the
house-wife, or professional mom, which is not a game, rather it is an interactive calander and scheduler with everything
from a grocery list to a datebook, calander, telphone directory, checking account organizer...

These are the ideas that Nintendo  could pursue that may be boring and pointless to us gamers- but could reap money
for Nintendo- More profits= better products.  Just think- Mom buys Nintendo DS because of the commercial she saw on
Home and Garden channel about how there are Garden Planning games where she can plant, organize and grow her
flowers- Kids are happy because they get DS too- maybe households would get 2 or 3 DS because kids, mom and dad
want it.

[box]                                          X    <------- nintendo is here.

[Spak-Spang]

Nintendo definately needs to show more than just the concept at E3.  I think they need to show at least ONE demo.  That is all it would take.  If Mario was pushed back to Revolution and they could have you playing a small Demo level of whatever they are planning that would sell E3 for Nintendo.  Completely.

And if Nintendo did only one demo it wouldn't take from the Gamecube, DS, and Gameboy Advance games they are showing.  What it would do is ensure people are over there at the Nintendo booth trying these games.  

You know Microsoft is going to be demoing there new system and probably have a playable Demo.  Sony will be showing hyped up movies of Monsters INC. graphics running real time gameplay...Nintendo has to show more than a concept to get the attention needed.

[PaLaDiN]

Are we even sure they'll show the concept at E3? They've been unusually vague about it.

[wandering]

If they don't, they're toast.

I think revolution will demo really well. I genuinly think they have something really cool on their hands that when people pick it up and play it, they'll say, 'wow, that's amazing-this controller is amzing! this mario game is amazing!'. They won't think it's just a gimmick. I just hope Nintendo realizes that they need more than that...because that's what the N64 had. Everybody was blown away when they played Mario 64, but... at the end of the day, sony redesigned their controller, had more games, and won.

[Spak-Spang]

Nintendo in an interview stated they will show something about Revolution.  They don't know how much they want to show.  There is obvious debate.  I think there is probably a big debate between people wanting to show as much as possible, and others wanting to show as little as possible.

I think a demo is a must.  If you let people touch and play with something, they will remember it more.  They will want to experience it again.  They will begin to dream about how great games will be with it.

If it is just a concept shown, then it will be too abstract to fully grasp and that dreaming, and desire won't be as strong...and could easily be swayed back to the PS3 or Xenon.

[Spak-Spang]

Wandering_Nintendo-Fan:  That wasn't exactly why Nintendo 64 failed.  Sony made it desirable to publish for the Playstation.  Cheaper fees, cheaper media to create games on, larger storage device.  

If Nintendo had a CD techonology instead of Cartridge then Nintendo would have probably held off Sony's advancements.  

Sony only succeed because of third party development.  

Revolution won't be the same.  Revolution could just demo a Mario game right now, and video some other stuff.  Then Nintendo can focus most of its show on the New Zelda, and the New DS games which will be going online.

[zakkiel]

As for a playable demo, methinks: "not a chance." If they haven't decided on their control scheme yet, how the hell could they have a playable demo? It would be a nice surprise, but I doubt they'll have one before whatever that event is in September.  

And the launch lineup on the Cube was pitiful, IMO, and it's worse on the DS. That's probably the single biggest thing Nintendo needs to wrap its mind around: the number and variety of games is the biggest factor in how well the system sells.

[BigJim]

I think that playable demos aren't just unlikely, there's no chance.

The Revolution will be like the Zelda of last year. The system and games are a year and a half away. Even if they had playable demos in rough forms, they could very well not even be the same games by the time they launched. It's way too early. Heck, anybody remember the Zelda and Wave Race videos? They were nothing like the final products.

The GameCube was demo'ed at SpaceWorld 2000 and made an effective impact with the 100 Mario demonstration, videos, screenshots, and prototype hardware on display. That is all that's necessary to create buzz.

Nintendo still needs to focus on the here and now, too. It's not important that Nintendo offer playable Rev games right now. Their focus will be on hyping Zelda and DS games. The Revolution will shine at next E3.

If Nintendo chooses to hold back Revolution's big secret, it wouldn't really matter anyway. As soon as 3rd parties get a hold of the hardware, which will likely be shortly after E3, everybody's going to know because it will get leaked. Nintendo's only hope of copy prevention is to get a patent pending for it, unless MS and Sony don't care about it.

[wandering]

It could actually be detremental for Nintendo to blow their wad and have Revolution playable. You need people to be saying that playing with the Revolution is an amazing expereince - not a mediocre one (which will most likely be the response with an early build). First impressions are killer. Once people find out that playing the Revolution is mediocre- there's no way to turn back. Then there'd be no more information to share, only spit and polish which will be added, but which won't make headlines.

What they do need is to reaveal the basic control scheme, and show someone (or a video of someone) playing games on the revolution using that new control scheme. Also, they need to reveal that the graphics will actually be good and comparible to PS2/Xbox, reveal that the console will not in fact be purple, and maybe reveal the identity of a single big launch game (I'm thinking Mario or Metroid).

And, if it plays well, and if Revolution is genuinly different than the other two consoles, and not gimmicky but actually revolutionary- it will take the spotlight right off the competition. It will make the headlines - on mainstream newspapers as well as videogame publications. And when CNN reports that 'NINTENDO REVEALS GAMES WILL BE CONTROLLED WITH MOTION IN NEXT-GENERATION CONSOLE' And, as a smaller headline, they report 'Sony and Microsoft unveil next consoles - greater graphics capabilty impresses gamers', we Nintendo fans will laugh and cheer.

[Don'tHate742]

^^^ Agreed.

I don't think they even need to show the graphics, though they could if they wanted to. A Metriod demo would be sweet. If all is as I planned....then Metriod would be the all-star product to show. "LOOK NINTENDO SHOWED THAT YOU CAN CONTROL METRIOD MAN"S ARM!" Something like that wouldn't fade from people's minds and also let Nintendo not have to show any other software till next year (though they may want to, to supress the Xbox 2 launch....but they got Zelda for that ).

They at least....AT LEAST have to show what the hell this uber product is. Having nothing to show for at the biggest E3 yet, would be a disastrous, and I can't make that more of point.

[slingshot]

Oh, they'll show- and they'll glow, and they'll steel the light from that show.
Micro will go "OH NO'!
Sony will see and flee!

------------------Something crazy will be unleashed-

[Don'tHate742]

In that comment.....I just realized how much hope for Nintendo I have.....I need to cool it before I get very, very dissapointed.

[Spak-Spang]

When Nintendo stated they haven't decided completely yet on a controller.  I think that means they have the concept down, they just haven't decided on the look, and/or the design and number of buttons.

The demo that needs to be shown doesn't have to be an actual game.  It just has to prove the concept and direction is good.  The demo could be as simple as controlling a gamecube game with the new controller...or tech demos like the DS had.  

However, if they don't show a demo, then graphics are a must.  They are going to have to show the world that the concept comes with equal graphics to that of Xenon and PS3.

Those CNN reports could also easily be saying this:

"Despite Nintendo's revelation that games of the future will be controlled by motion, Sony and Microsoft scored huge crowds of fans eager to play the next generation systems."


Don'tHate742:  You are right this is the biggest E3 ever.  Microsoft is probably going to let the entire cat out of the bag.  Release Date, Specs, Games, and it will let people play something like a Halo 3 demo.  Just wait.  Sony knows this, and will come out with info for the PS3 as well.  Pontentially demos.

Nintendo needs to do the same.  They just can't sit on this hype of something revolutionary for another year.  It's stupid.  Right among these messageboards someone has got the concept for the Revolution written out.  I feel we have a pretty good idea.  Its not going to be a big surprise annoucement.  So they need that extra something special (like a demo) to prove the point.  

[zakkiel]

Slingshot, I just reread your original post, and I have to pont out a problem. There's no restoring force in gyroscopes. They resist being reoriented, but after you've moved them they stay put. It's not like a steering wheel or joystick where you constantly have a force pushing it back to zero. Gyroscopes just resist being moved, they don't care what way they end up pointing. So you won't get "force feedback." just a sort of resistance when you try and turn.

[nemo_83]

If they release November of 06 regardless of when Sony releases after the NextBox they need to have at least three minutes of video displaying graphics and games in development (Zelda and Metroid and new franchises), the Revolution's present casing and controller as well as demo on stage for us the next Super Mario Bros. and maybe a sword fighting game like Soul Calibur or shooter using the new controller.  Official specs would be nice too.  A portable GameCube (GBE) would boost interest.  If they wait until next fall for the Revolution launch then at this year's E3 they need to show some killer DS and GameCube software surprises.  Where are the games on GameCube?  Revolution is going to be backwards compatible so should the Cube not be getting the most third party support at E3?



If Nintendo launches fall of 05 against the NextBox then they have to show everything including publicly playable Revolution demos.

Nintendo has no competition in going after nongamers, and nongamers won't know anything about what happens at E3 so Nintendo needs to focus on hardcore gamers at E3.  Nintendog$#!+  is not going to convince anyone paying attention to E3 to buy a DS.