Topic: Portable GC becoming more and more likely?

[Don'tHate742]

I didn't know where to put this so bear with me....

With the annoucement of the Revolution being backwards compatible, the statement strikes up many interesting questions. Before I get to those questions though, I'd like to add some other insight.....

If the DS is truely a third-pillar platform, then noone would deny that a new GameBoy is the works, or at least being contemplated. Also, during the official press conference regarding the GameCube media some years ago, Nintendo executives stated that using the GC-rom later for a handheld isn't out of the question. They never said "it's likely," but saying that future hardware might capitilize on the GC-rom's small disk size and high density brings me to the point that they are at least looking for ways to incorperate it. It is also more likely from a business stand point, since using a previous media by-passes thinking up a new propriety scheme as well as the securities invovled. Overall, it is just cheaper to do so (in the short run, definitely). Now it is fact that the Revolution is backwards compatible. What would compell Nintendo to do such a thing, since it hasn't been done in previous consoles? The obvious answer is the Digital Disk format. It's hard to incorperate backwards compatibility into a system if the system doesn't use the same media. Also another answer could be, because of pressure from outside companies, a.k.a. Sony. Nintendo doesn't want to look "under-featured" this time around, but that is a moot point. Nintendo sees the Revolution backwars compatibility extending the life of the Cube through software, even if they don't release any new games. Late adopters of Nintendo can go back and pick up highly-acclaimed videogames and enjoy them as we have. Of course Nintendo could end it there and be done with it, or, they could continue to support the Cube games, while making Revolution games. Supporting the Cube though, requires resources, resources that Nintendo cannot afford to waste on a "dead-console" come 2006. The only way I could see them putting enough backing behind the extension of Cube software is to some how get Third Parties to also develope for the system. No Third Party in their right mind would support a piece of software that belonged to a console that didn't have a huge userbase. They are more likely to develope for next-gen consoles, which would cost them more money, but in a business aspect, bring in more revenue.

So how can Nintendo persuade developers to keep developing for the Cube? And how can Nintendo afford to extend the GC's life with new software, while supporting other systems? Launch the Gameboy: Portable GC. It would have access to the many GC games already out, while leaving room for many future titles. A new GameBoy line would already attract many developers; couple that with the fact that it's cheaper to develope for and they already have the dev-kits, and you have a winning combination from the very beginning. Gamers who bought the Revolution, but not the GameCube will line up to buy it. The incentive would be there, for they already have a GC Player but not much of a reason to buy new/old software, until now. It would extend the sales of current GameCube games and with developer support lead to many more hits. Nintendo could then merge the two branches (GC and GB) of developing into one and with the experience, churn out games faster and games not visually seen before (i.e. REmake and RE:4). It would attract those gamers who did not buy a Revolution or GameCube soley becuase it has a large selection from the start, as well as being a new powerful system. Then after the purchase, they would give a Revolution purchase more consideration, becuase playing most titles would be better at home. It would use pre-existing hardware, cutting down costs for Nintendo. Adding WiFi, a mini-HD, and a SD-card adapter that allows for transporting saved game data as well as providing the possibility to play music or movies, all wrapped up into a sleek bundle that is the GBGC, and it'll sell. With the characteristics of a GC-controller, but unlike it, so it is comfortable yet easily carried. It would sell....period.

From soley a business prospect, it seems very likely. It cuts down on costs while effectively selling software already made. The only problem I see is the design and package. How could you make it play all GC games, and also make it easier to tote around?

Your thoughts?

[Deguello]

More like less likely.

[Ian Sane]

I think the Rev has backwards compatibility simply because it's an expected feature.  The PS2 had it and the PS3 is going to have it.  Nintendo got burned because the Cube didn't match features with the competition.  Nintendo seems to have learned somewhat from past mistakes so they want to make sure that a minor expected feature like backwards compatibility is included.  No one is going to not buy a Rev because it can play Cube games but some might not buy it because it can't play Cube games.

[BlkPaladin]

Not to mention that with the Revolution it the first time it is ecconomically feasible to put in backwards compatiblity, Nintendo's norm is to put backward compatiblity into its systems.

[Don'tHate742]

BlkPaladin -  I put that comment in my thesis

"What would compell Nintendo to do such a thing (backwards compatibility), since it hasn't been done in previous consoles? The obvious answer is the Digital Disk format. It's hard to incorperate backwards compatibility into a system if the system doesn't use the same media."

Ian Sane - If you look at the PSone and how long it survived after the PS2, it is easy to see that backwards compatibility does have some effect at prolonging the previous generations life. Sony had only two systems to worry about and it showed. They made improvements to the PSone and gave it a screen and people gobbled it up along with many games (mostly pirate). Now that Nintendo already has a disk media that is the best DVD to carry around, I can't help but see them spending resources on a revamped GameCube a.k.a the new GameBoy. It just makes too much sense business wise to be ignored.

Also none of you even mentioned any rebuttal (sp) for the possible sales it could bring to itself, while helping both the Revolution and GameCube software.

[Rancid Planet]

Oh yes, the fact that the Rev is going backwards compatible with GCN software is going to help it out for sure. For one thing anyone who owns a cube can sell it to buy a Rev and that's always a good thing. Secondly anyone who didn't buy a GCN could get into TWO libraries worth of games with one system, so there's a major selling point as well.

And not to get too technical but knowing that the Rev will be backwards compatible with GCN software does not necesarily mean that the Rev will use the same media. It only really means that we know the Rev WILL in fact have an optical drive. Although you're probably right I'm just nitpicking here.  

[Don'tHate742]

Ya....about the media thing. It's a good point you made, but just to clear it up....

My point was that the Revolution is using the same type of media (DVD, not specifically the same media though). With the DS and it's backwards compatibility, you can see the two different types of media in effect. I think the only reason they included the BWC in the DS was because it used the same hardware as the GBA, and for future uprgrades (maybe). But for the GBA, it used the same hardware as well as the same type of input as previous gameboys, so it was relatively easy. Are the types of media the same for the GB? Yes. But are they the same? No. The GBA had a higher capacity catridge as well as it being smaller. I expect the Revolution to be higher capacity as well (not smaller though, HD-DVD?).

[Rancid Planet]

Perhaps. That would be cool for sure though.

By the way I like the tiny little Marley avatar.

[ThePerm]

I think it would be a good move to cut licensing fees for gcn to a 4th of what they are.....imagine

[SuperMario35]

People keep sayin that the Revolution will use a disk format similar to the UMD that sony created. Meaning a disc will be cased like a UMD. If Nintendo uses this format its going to be hard to make Revolution backward compatible. I think Nintendo should make the GBA next compatible with GC games and choose this format for its next handheld. I think its a mistake to make revolution backward compatible if your going 2 use a diffrent media like the UMD instead of a disc based console.

[KnowsNothing]

I heard that Rev games will be stored on carrot sticks.  Nintendo should not make the Rev backwards compatible because GC games are not on carrot sticks so nobody will want to play them.  In my own world, this makes sense.

[Don'tHate742]

The fact that it's already been announced that the Revolution will include backwards compatibilty, I think it's safe to assume that it won't use any UMD type media. It's more likely that it'll use a DVD of some sort (BRD or HD-DVD most likely).

The Perm - I don't think they would have to cut licensing fees. If they make a PGC (portable GC) then developers will have enough incentive to develope for the console even with the licensing fees as they are now. I bet they could even raise them higher if they wanted to, though I don't see that as a smart move. The possibility of developing a game that can be used on a console and a handheld, with no hidden fees or porting neccesary, is plenty alluring already; to both Nintendo and other parties. It's just all around a good idea.

The only problem is making the PGC a nice, clean handheld, with a long enough battery-life, WiFi, and a standard SD-memory card slot (maybe other features, like a HD). It has to be able to play all GC games, but how? An analog stick is hard enough to fit on a handheld without feeling dumb-down or ghetto *looks at the PSP*, not to mention putting two.

[lastexit]

It seems rather obvious that the design of the GC media had future portability in mind.  It would have been very easy for Nintendo to use larger discs with more capacity that cost them exactly the same to manufacture.  The design was carefully scrutinized and was no off-hand decision.  The key benefit of the small GC discs is that they could be used in a smaller, likely portable machine.

If Nintendo can engineer decent batterly life out of such a system, which seems possible considering advances in battery tech, etc, they have a KILLER APP on their hands.  Combining the GBA and GC lines in a future portable console has numerous benefits:  

1.  Expands GC library.  Game Boy has excellent 3rd-party support and if the next gameboy was a portable using the GC media and same internal software/chips the games would be INTERCHANGEABLE.  This way anyone who wants a new Gameboy gets a killer full-3D system that already has hundreds of games and current GC owners will see their library grow exponentially over the life of the portable as the GBA developers take advantage of the new market on the handheld.  This is a MAJOR advantage and a key reason it might become reality.

2. Expands Revolution library.  It has been clearly stated over and over that Rev will be backwards compatible with GC games.  This means that Rev will have disc-based media but not necessarily the SAME media and most likely completely different media such as hd-dvd capacity discs.  It's not hard to make a disc drive read two types of discs, see your combo cd/dvd drive.  If the Rev has backwards compatiblity with GC and the GC has a new GB portable version then Rev OUT OF THE GATE has the current Gamecube lineup and a nice growing library of Portable GC games being steadily released.   Nintendo's biggest problems with consoles have been thin libraries early-on so this kind of functionality can MAJORLY address a problem Nin has had in the past.

3. It's cool.  The DS is cool because of its unique features/games and backwards compatiblity with GBA cartridges.  That was probably included on DS so the next GB wouldn't have to have that.  If the next GB is disc-based then adding a cartridge slot would be a bit cumbersome and also the screens/video hardware would be different.  A portable GC would immediately blast the PSP's specs out of the water.  GC has better specs than the PS2 and the PSP is not even a PS2.  

4. It's in line with previous Nintendo thinking.  The Super GB on SNES and the GBPlayer on GC are add-ons that gave console owners the ability to play portable games at home.  Rev would have this built-in from the get go.  Having THREE SYSTEMS all play the same games concurrently would be amazing and a brilliant way to increase software sales.


Now the difficulties and reasons not to do it:

1. Controller.  No way the GC controller can translate easily to a portable.  A GC portable would require major re-thinking of the controller to maintain the cross-platform compatibility.  Fortunately many people don't much like the current GC controller so if a good portable version could be crafted it might turn into quite a plus.  This is a major issue but Nintendo is capable of solving it.

2. GB line purity.  Nintendo may not want to simply take the GC, make it portable and slap "Gameboy" on the name.  They may have a new GB in mind that isn't disc-based and is more in line with what we've seen in the past under the GB banner.  Particularly the battery life issue as it's something the GB is known for.  

3. Development costs for games.  GBA development is cheaper than GC development and that is part of the reason the library is large.  Upping the stakes ups the costs and having to develop for a more complex system may reduce the number of third parties support Nintendo's portable although the reality is that they will have to do this regardless as the technology is clearly taking off and the DS would be the likely repository for developers not looking to develop high-end games.


That all considered I can venture a few safe guesses:


1. Nintendo has already developed a prototype in R&D.  No way in hell they haven't seriously considered this.

2. A move like this would shake up the market bigtime.  It would be ballsy and very aggressive.

3.  If the system can be built cheap enough and the battery life long enough, Nintendo will absolutely do it.

[kennyb27]

Lastexit, you may have many good points, but I couldn't help but disagreeing with you.  My idea for the next gameboy is not a portable GC.  I want it to be a new system.  Like Ian would tell you, the GC is a great system, but you don't want to carry the image over from the GC to the portable.

I wouldn't mind a portable GC, but I want my Gameboy to be separate.  I can't help but always think of my GB as my last safe haven for fun; games that are actually portable.  I mean, I take my gameboy out for 5 minutes sometimes.  There aren't many GC games that are like that.  

Also, your point about many people not liking the GC controller.  What are you smoking?  The GC controller is the best controller this generation, I think Nintendo did a great job with research and design on the controller.  

[Don'tHate742]

He meant many people other than GC owners not liking the controller. I've seen many people say they prefer the PS2 or Xbox S controller or the GC's.

Lastexit basically summed up everything I said before in a neat, organized, numbering system. There are too many positives in this situation for it not to be considered.

As for your complaint Kennyb, I know many people that are like you, playing on and off for 5 minutes at a time, but the PGC can solve that problem. I am assuming you played the same game for that 5 minutes, that you played a half an hour ago. Well, remember opening the lid of your GC? As soon as closed it, it went right back to what you were doing. Brilliant. This could be implemented into the PGC. It could have an option that instead of fully powering down, it could have a hibernate of somesort and of course, a standby. The hibernate would take about 10-15 seconds to load, but it would offer greater battery-life savage (haha made up a word). Standby would simply "wake up" the system for you too continue playing. I know what your thinking....You'd have to load the game properly first. Properly, as in booting up the game as you would on your GC. I don't remember how long it takes, but it's long enough. Well, once you have it loaded and are playing, it's all gravy from that point on. So even though it might not be ultra-portable as the GB's are today, it'll still be portable to some respect.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I Don't mean to Hate , but....

Quote
Originally posted by: Don'tHate742
The hibernate would take about 10-15 seconds to load, but it would offer greater battery-life savage (haha made up a word).

Savage - I think the made-up word you are looking for would be more like save-age

Quote
Originally posted by: kennyb27
Like Ian would tell you, the GC is a great system, but you don't want to carry the image over from the GC to the portable.

I actually think that could be reinventing the image of GC, it could get rid of the tiku tiku tiku!  image and become more of a cool item to own. Kinda like how everyone(casual gamers) thought that the Playstation Portable could play Playstation games.  

[Don'tHate742]

BlackNMild - I'm a jackass........thank you

*comes up with some excuse* I....I was...to use to spelling words correctly....*takes short breaths as if about to cry* SHUT UP!

hehe

I see NO downsides to this. None, nada, zip.....another made-up word abidklsiudkj.....(try looking that up )

It's seems to good to pass up, and that is why I'm going to officially (yes, officially) guess that it will be revealed E3 2006 to coincide the Revolution's launch plan. It's the perfect time to release information. Not only will the adopters of the DS not feel cheated (since they have online games and everything), but it will destroy whatever Sony shows and create hype for Nintentdo. I don't like hype, but in this case, it would be great. Then, they will launch the handheld in September, with a few new games (mario 128!) and the previous 100 or so gamecube games that we have today. This will allow for people to pick up the platform and also give them time to pick up previous games......then about the time they get annoyed because they can't play previous multiplayer games, BOOM! The Revolution launches with the PGC-GC playability advertized to death. The new found base of PGC owners turns into Revolution owners, and all is good in the land of Nintendo (if they launch with quality Rev software and online, that is). It's a win, win, win situation.

DO IT DAMN IT!
 

[wandering]

2 downsides: 1) there's too many handhelds on the market already 2) Nintendo trying to launch 2 new consoles at once would be utter madness.
I think 2006 is too early.
Christmas 2007, maybe.

[lastexit]

The DS is the key to all of this.  The DS is the continued line of the GBA.  Cartridge-based, fun, short-play type games that appeal to everyone.  The DS is where current GBA fans will get their fix (and me too once more games come out).  

[nemo_83]

If a GameBoyEvolution comes out this year or next backwards compatable with GameCube software I wonder if it will be backwards compatable with the DS and or GBA.  I would want it with a memory slot that fits normal GameCube memory slots, but they need to release the SD attachment for it so that we would be able to purchase it and use it to load large portions of games at a time so we don't have to constantly spin the disk thus killing the batteries.  It could feature gyration and track balls.  Some are still speculating that either the DS or GBE will really be the Revolution's controller.  I don't think Nintendo has made a decision yet.  

[King of Twitch]

They could mix gyration with battery charging so you could furiously shake the system to recharge the batteries.  

[n-phage]

I think that was lastexit said is right.  While the DS does not carry the gameboy name, it is in reality the continuation of the Gameboy line.  If the next "Gameboy" actually uses the Gamecube disks then it is really the new handheld line.  The DS would be more like the current Gameboys and is backward compatible with them while the new handheld would not be.

The only real problem I see with a portable GC is that it might not sell as well because people won't need to buy it to play its games.  Some people would just buy the Revolution or keep their GC to play the games.  Alot of poeple might not care and might buy the handheld anyway, but I do think it may be an issue.

[xts3]

There is way too much hardware on the market already, there is no way the market can support all these devices with software considering the length of time and cost of developing games for modern 3D hardware.

Right now in my mind there are too many crap games and not enough good games.   Everything I see on the shelf is re-hashed stuff from at least 8-10 years ago.  I think if the industry isn't careful its headed for a crash.

[KDR_11k]

Everything I see on the shelf is re-hashed stuff from at least 8-10 years ago.

You're just not looking hard enough.

[Don'tHate742]

xts3 - Do you realize what would happen to the software line-up for the PGC if this happens?

- Ports would be cut down MAJORLY, since you can't port something that's already for the system. This allows for newer stuff.

- Games wouldn't have to be steadily released parties, letting them concentrate on making a game to perfection, especially since more resources would be given to the Rev. This is a much need attribute to today's gaming biz. They can't do this for it's entire life-span, but for the first year, they can afford to.

- Developers who are already very use to GC's game developement style, don't have to re-learn anything, except for maybe WiFi and such. This allows major companies (like Capcom) to produce high-quality graphics quicker than usual. Who knows, there still maybe some undiscovered power from the GC allowing them to make even more beautiful games.

- 2D games would thrive as they have before. Imagine a much more dark and intriguing CastleVania. They ccould push the potential of the PGC and make the game more complex, with more moves, attacks, and souls to capture. Awesome. Plus, it wouldn't take terribly long to create either. Other 2D games, like maybe a new Mario, could potentially be killer-apps.

- Third Party support would be in abundance. They seem to cater to either the most powerful system, or the one with the biggest fanbase. I could see the PGC as both, since it's technically developing for 3 consoles without any issues of porting. I could also see games that weren't release for the GC, releasing for the GC. I'm pretty sure a Burnout game would make it to the system.

That's all I got for now........