Topic: Super Mario Galaxy 2

[ThomasO]

Thinking about it, a split screen co-op in Mario Galaxy would make the game even more disorienting than it already is to some. A friend of mine gets nausea from Mario Galaxy's wild gravity and rounded planets... imagine when the cameras are moving in two different directions at once toward these curved horizons.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I would love that.

[Peachylala]

Seems that Miyamoto is squishing Koizumi's attempts at making a good plot backstory for whomever Mario helps in Galaxy 2.

Doesn't anyone else find it distressing that sometimes your favorite moments in a Nintendo game from EAD had to be snuck around Miyamoto in order for it to get in? Sometimes I wonder if it's a good thing or a bad thing.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Seems that Miyamoto is squishing Koizumi's attempts at making a good plot backstory for whomever Mario helps in Galaxy 2.

Doesn't anyone else find it distressing that sometimes your favorite moments in a Nintendo game from EAD had to be snuck around Miyamoto in order for it to get in? Sometimes I wonder if it's a good thing or a bad thing.

Like what? I would consider the story of Mario Galaxy to be far from one of my favorite moments. While the story was good by Mario standards it was still very basic.

Without derailing another thread further, I want to address this ridiculous out of context quoting of Miyamoto in regards to how much of the game is new. For one, I would think after all these years we would learn that sometimes things don't come out quite right when translating some of Miyamoto's statements. Also he wasn't really specific as to what he meant about the 90% new, does he mean 10% of the worlds are the same? Some of the enemies are the same? Some of the abilities? We have ZERO idea what he meant, all I will say is 90% new is better then most sequels out there, and that doesn't even include EA with their various yearly franchises they sell at full price. To use that statement as a way to back up your fear shows sillyness to me, we have no idea what exactly Miyamoto was referencing. Also please check out IGN's rewind of the trailer, it really shows you the game is more new then people give it credit for if you pay attention to the trailer (I especially like it that you have a constantly changing item block, perhaps that means you'll keep your suits and powers until you get hit or something).

Unless you are willing to call most sequels out there "expansion packs" then it is asinine to call SMG2 that, even if Miyamoto's statement was true, the game is well over 90% new, that is pretty fancy expansion pack if that is the case.

[Peachylala]

Like what? I would consider the story of Mario Galaxy to be far from one of my favorite moments. While the story was good by Mario standards it was still very basic.

I guess I'd better back up some of my statement...

While the story in Galaxy wasn't really my favorite part of the game, it was still well-done, for a Mario game. It was completely optional, as Koizumi intended, but Koizumi wanted to do more with it. Miyamoto didn't let him. Whether this is good or bad, there is no real answer. I think Miyamoto gives great guidence to his development studio(s), but I find the whole "sneaking it past Shiggy" to be a bit...off-putting.

Yet that's what I personally think. I respect Shiggy just about as much as the next guy, but considering Yoshiaki Koizumi is the guy who made up the entire Zelda mythos in Link To The Past, and was the NPC/Story Director for Link's Awakening, Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask (unsure of Wind Waker), if we saw him have more story control, we would get something superb.

Unless you are willing to call most sequels out there "expansion packs" then it is asinine to call SMG2 that, even if Miyamoto's statement was true, the game is well over 90% new, that is pretty fancy expansion pack if that is the case.

Yoshi added into SMG2 is basically 120%.

Yet I still think Galaxy 2 won't make much of a mark on million copy sales as NSMBWii will.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Yoshi added into SMG2 is basically 120%.

Yet I still think Galaxy 2 won't make much of a mark on million copy sales as NSMBWii will.

Should be interesting to see how the sales compare, but I think you may be right especially since NSMB Wii is a holiday title. I think they'll both sell amazing, and really it is most likely both will deserve it. Yoshi's inclusion in SMG2 is going to be fascinating because it looks like the first serious use of Yoshi in a Mario game (Sunshine had limited use of Yoshi but it was more of a bonus). From what it looks like Yoshi is going to dramatically change how the game plays with both the pointer and some of his abilities. Should be fun.

[vudu]

A Mario game with co-op play involving Mario and Luigi would be like a dream come true. It would be a difficult thing to implement because I don't think split-screen would work well, so the levels would have to be designed to keep the two players nearby without the camera zooming out so far as to make them specks on the screen. If anyone could make it work, it would be Miyamoto.

It would work real well on the small planets that populate much of Mario Galaxy.  Nintendo would just need to make it so you couldn't travel to another planet unless both players jumped into the star transporter at the same time.

Co-op 3d mario would not work unless it's split screen.  Otherwise the camera would be behind only one of the characters, at any given time, and the other would have a near impossible time with the platforming elements.  This would be even worse in Galaxy, where the 2nd player could be on the opposite side of a sphere, competely out of view.  Should the camera follow the players equally, it would do so normal to the plane passing through both characters, making it effectively a 2d game.

They just need to implement partial transparency on the planet if one character runs "behind" it.

[NWR_insanolord]

I think Galaxy will sell well, most likely over a million units, but I'd be surprised if NSMBWii sold less than 10 million.

[Mop it up]

I think Galaxy will sell well, most likely over a million units

Most likely? More like the likeliest thing to ever happen in the history of the world. In fact I think Super Mario Galaxy 2 is going to surpass the sales of the original, but I guess we shall see. But 1 million? That's as safe as betting whether or not I'm going to take a breath within the next 5 seconds.

[IceCold]

No kidding... Galaxy 1 is at 8 million as we speak.

[Peachylala]

I think Galaxy will sell well, most likely over a million units, but I'd be surprised if NSMBWii sold less than 10 million.

SMG1 sold bucket loads in it's first month in sales, but it came no where near NSMBDS sales.

But it's really likely Galaxy 2 will surpass Galaxy 1 in terms of sales. Yet it has alot to do considering it's a direct sequal to the only next-gen sequal that wasn't H.ighly D.isappointing. (and in shades of brown)

[GoldenPhoenix]

I think Galaxy will sell well, most likely over a million units, but I'd be surprised if NSMBWii sold less than 10 million.

SMG1 sold bucket loads in it's first month in sales, but it came no where near NSMBDS sales.

But it's really likely Galaxy 2 will surpass Galaxy 1 in terms of sales. Yet it has alot to do considering it's a direct sequal to the only next-gen sequal that wasn't H.ighly D.isappointing. (and in shades of brown)

It is kind of sad actually when you think about it, as great as NSMB:Wii may be, it won't have near the production values or the depth of Mario Galaxy 2, yet it will mostly likely outsell it by quite a bit.

[Caterkiller]

Woah, did the first Galaxy reallly get all the way up to 8 million?

[Peachylala]

Considering it kicks massive amounts of ass, it should've.

I think Galaxy will sell well, most likely over a million units, but I'd be surprised if NSMBWii sold less than 10 million.

SMG1 sold bucket loads in it's first month in sales, but it came no where near NSMBDS sales.

But it's really likely Galaxy 2 will surpass Galaxy 1 in terms of sales. Yet it has alot to do considering it's a direct sequal to the only next-gen sequal that wasn't H.ighly D.isappointing. (and in shades of brown)

It is kind of sad actually when you think about it, as great as NSMB:Wii may be, it won't have near the production values or the depth of Mario Galaxy 2, yet it will mostly likely outsell it by quite a bit.

Mario Kart Wii is a great example of what you pointed out. Comparing it to Galaxy, the game looks and sounds like ass. It plays like a dream though.

Quite a pity.

[Mop it up]

SMG1 sold bucket loads in it's first month in sales, but it came no where near NSMBDS sales.

The game is still selling though, and New Super Mario Brothers has been out for two years longer.

]Mario Kart Wii is a great example of what you pointed out. Comparing it to Galaxy, the game looks and sounds like ass. It plays like a dream though.

I know what you mean, Mario Kart Wii is just downright ugly in some places. Making that worse is that multiplayer runs at 30fps for no reason. I wonder, did they have to sacrifice the graphics in order for the game to run smoothly online, or does that not matter?

[Peachylala]

Mop: The graphics were the same in the online multiplyer split-screen, like it was in game. However, like you pointed out, it runs slowly. That's because you've got a) an internet connection with multiple gamers and b) split-screen with two players.

The game is still selling though, and New Super Mario Brothers has been out for two years longer.

NSMB was released in 2006, Galaxy was released in '07. So there is really only a one year difference.

Or maybe, Malstorm's article about 2-D Marios selling more is correct? Hmm...

[GoldenPhoenix]

Mop: The graphics were the same in the online multiplyer split-screen, like it was in game. However, like you pointed out, it runs slowly. That's because you've got a) an internet connection with multiple gamers and b) split-screen with two players.

The game is still selling though, and New Super Mario Brothers has been out for two years longer.

NSMB was released in 2006, Galaxy was released in '07. So there is really only a one year difference.

Or maybe, Malstorm's article about 2-D Marios selling more is correct? Hmm...

Well I would not be surprised if that was true, the 2-D Mario's are less intimidating then the 3-D ones.

[Stogi]

But less fun?

[GoldenPhoenix]

But less fun?

Well consider SMB3 is my favorite game of all time, I would disagree. Now if it was NSMB: DS vs SMG/SMS/SM64 I'd agree.

[Mop it up]

Mop: The graphics were the same in the online multiplyer split-screen, like it was in game. However, like you pointed out, it runs slowly. That's because you've got a) an internet connection with multiple gamers and b) split-screen with two players.

There's no excuse for local multiplayer to run at 30fps, especially for a game this ugly. But my question was asking if the graphics in general aren't good because of the online mode, if the game wouldn't have been able to handle, say, Super Mario Galaxy-quality graphics for the online mode to be stable.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

The game is ugly in the first place cuz there's too much going on considering 12 instead of 8 AI (or human) racers, and the general speed at which objects have to enter the screen, which means these objects have to be loaded already and not intelligently streamed like Galaxy which has the advantage of "hiding" most of the stage since the screen focuses on very few, detailed, planetoids at a time.  Galaxy hides its environment just as Metroid Prime does.  Mario Kart can't get away with that.

[Plugabugz]

The game is ugly in the first place cuz there's too much going on considering 12 instead of 8 AI (or human) racers, and the general speed at which objects have to enter the screen, which means these objects have to be loaded already and not intelligently streamed like Galaxy which has the advantage of "hiding" most of the stage since the screen focuses on very few, detailed, planetoids at a time.  Galaxy hides its environment just as Metroid Prime does.  Mario Kart can't get away with that.

So how does F-Zero GX get away with it with more than double the AI players, and an engine originally meant for monkeys in balls?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Lots of low-poly crafts, smooth constant surfaces, geometry repetition tricks, limited animations, "no weird random item" events and stage activity, simple background structures, good art, and a very intelligent polygon pop-up system that works together with the art/track design.  And only 1 human player controller input to account for during full-screen play.

Even Melee will take framerate hits due to processing controller input from 4 players.

[GoldenPhoenix]

So Pro, super genius of all things graphics, is NSMB:Wii pushing the system so hard they can't do online?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Exactly.  Nintendo's incapable of having good graphics and good online at the same time.  Since Nintendo is smart, they'll skip online entirely.