Topic: New Iwata quotes

[Ian Sane]

Gamespot's got some new Iwata quotes regarding the Rev.

One interesting point is that the Rev will use the same application program interfaces (APIs) as the Cube.  I don't really know what that means but if it makes games cheaper to make and attracts third party support then I'm all for it.  The suggestion of a better reception from developers than Iwata expected is positive particularly since he earlier this year suggested the concept of no third party support.

The other interesting parts have to do with the controller.  Iwata feels controllers have gotten too complex for non-gamers.  My natural response to that is "and I should care why?" since I'm not a non-gamer and don't care if others don't "get it" provided I do.

Another interesting quote is "For the next-generation console, we plan to introduce a friendly user interface so that, for example, a mother who's watching her child playing a game might say, 'Oh, I'd like to try that too’."

This quote makes me fear the posibillity of Nintendo dumbing things down.  The truth is I like it when my mother isn't interested in something I am.  She has much lower expectations of entertainment than I do.  We like a fair bit of the same things but I find the BEST stuff is often stuff she's not interested in but I am.  She listens to Celine Dion, finds Garfield funny, and is turned off by non-linear plots in movies.  She likes things that are non-offensive and simple to get.  I like some things like that too but I find that often anything that appeals to a very wide audience does so at the expense of being interesting.  If everyone likes it it has to be bland.  If everyone understands it it has to be dumb.  That's just how it works.

I like the fact that not everyone likes Nintendo games.  I wish Nintendo had a better public image and sold more consoles to attract more third parties but I don't want everyone to like them.  If everyone liked them they would be boring like EA.  Well actually I wouldn't care if everyone liked them for who they are but that probably won't happen.

So there's a problem.  How can Nintendo make a controller that everyone, regardless of experience (or intelligence), can use that can effectively play the types of games they make now?  A one button controller for example would be easy for anyone to understand BUT you can't play Zelda on it, or Metroid, or Mario or virtually ANY of Nintendo's franchise games.  Well you CAN play Zelda but only if they significantly alter what Zelda is.

Anyone can play and enjoy Pong for example but it would be very boring if Pong was all there is.  Entertainment is insteresting when it only appeals to certain people.  It's boring when it appeals to everyone.  I'm worried that Nintendo is changing from Led Zeppelin to Air Supply.  I read Iwata's quote and I picture adult contemporary gaming.

[PaLaDiN]

He said "everyone". "Hardcore gamers" form a subset of "everyone".

I prefer to think of it in terms of pizza... catering to everyone, hardcore gamers included.

Do you seriously think they're just going to abandon their existing fanbase? Why should everyone else's gain have to be our loss? I've yet to see any indication that Nintendo's sacrificing us, especially after all the amazing games they released this gen.

I think Donkey Kong JB is a good indication of where they're heading next gen... look at the simplicity of the controls, it's just two big buttons and a clap sensor, and yet it works amazingly well and has tons of depth.

I also like this quote: "Iwata said the Revolution came in for more positive reviews from developers than he had anticipated."

[Bill Aurion]

Iwata feels controllers have gotten too complex for non-gamers. My natural response to that is "and I should care why?" since I'm not a non-gamer and don't care if others don't "get it" provided I do.

Guess what, Ian?  You need to pull your head out of your ass and realize this isn't "Ninty's chance to please only Ian"...They are trying to expand the market, and to say "Oh I do not agree because I don't care about non-gamers" is hilarious...And I love how you keep on assuming "simplicity = bad game" when Jungle Beat proves the exact opposite...

The truth is I like it when my mother isn't interested in something I am.

So is this supposed to be a reason?  Oh noes, my mom likes something I do...IT IS NOT COOL ANYMORE!

How can Nintendo make a controller that everyone, regardless of experience (or intelligence), can use that can effectively play the types of games they make now?

*once AGAIN points at Jungle Beat*

And you are seriously underestimating the ideas behind controllers...You don't need lots of buttons for functionality...

[nemo_83]

In that interview I will say Iwata dropped the ball.  Everything cool he has said over the past few months just went out the window.  He makes it sound like there will be a touch screen on the Revolution controller, and that the Revolution will be wifi for LAN rather than online.  The website still twists what he said into confirmation that Revolution will online even though Iwata made it sound like the DS is going to be online and the Revolution won't.  He uses the word LAN.  Online to me represents voice chatting, access to several forums, and the ability to chose who you are playing with and what weapons, stage, and rules you are playing with.  Nintendo makes it seem like they want to create either an online service for Revolution that is just wildly random, or they are just going to waste our money making it only wifi for short range LAN.  My advice is if you are not going to step up to the plate to include the modem hardware and charge us for that extra hardware it better be for going online and not for short range LAN which will never happen because noone but three people will buy the Revolution if it does not have online built in.  

About the controller.  When will Nintendo realise that there is a standard number of buttons and mechanics that have to be on the controller to attract the base of the market.  The hardcore gamers will not buy a console that does not meet standards.  If old people can opperate a keyboard then they should be able to figure out their kids game controller.  It is a law of nature that because our thumb is so flexible that it will be used for more things on the controller such as dual analog and four face buttons.  Sorry Nintendo, you were the ones who said the Atari controller was ludicrously simple with its stiff joystick and solitary button.  Nintendo invented the dpad, shoulder buttons, and four face button layout.  People are not going to choose the controller that is the most simple.  That is not what gamers think, and you cannot sell a console without the gamers.  Gamers choose controllers based on their functionality.  They think, "does this give me the advantage."  I'm not talking about turbo buttons.  I am speaking about how Nintendo shorted us a shoulder button, analog stick buttons, and a normal dpad with the GameCube.  Those things are disadvantages and handicaps in the eyes of gamers and developers and are a contributing factor to why nothing sells on GameCube.

[GamecubeBoy2005]

are you guys like nintendo makers cause you guys sound like people who invented this stuff

[Deguello]

Nemo, you are the very DEFINITION of TL;DR

[Galford]

Ian, I feel your pain.  Sony learned during the PS1 generation, if it's not broke, don't fix it.(Controllers that is)

The bit about the API being the same???  What kind of API does Nintendo use?  An OpenGL-ish one or custom propiertary?

[PaLaDiN]

nemo, what the hell are you talking about? Internet is mentioned explicitly several times in the article and Iwata himself mentions it. Are we reading the same article?

As for the controller, maybe you should wait until it's unveiled before you start complaining, hmmm? Perhaps its intuitiveness does away with the need for complexity.

[Djunknown]

Sounds like the usual song and dance that Iwata's been doing since e3.

While Jungle beat is an example of easy to access controls for anyone,  Jungle beat's a cut and dry platformer. The irony is is that most likely only the hardcore will be willing to continually reach higher scores. Casual gamers will be satisfied by getting through it, say it was a nice game while it lasted, and move on.

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are you guys like nintendo makers cause you guys sound like people who invented this stuff

We wish. We just have too much time on our hands

Its hard to comment on what the controller, since all we have are rumor's and Iwata's teasing. Let's face it: No one has a F'ing clue what this thing looks like, or how it will fully function.

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How can Nintendo make a controller that everyone, regardless of experience (or intelligence), can use that can effectively play the types of games they make now?

If we're good little boys and [some] girls, maybe we'll find out at e3? Or at least, we can analyze the Revolution software and make some more concrete speculation?

[Ian Sane]

"And I love how you keep on assuming 'simplicity = bad game' when Jungle Beat proves the exact opposite..."

Simplicity does not = bad game.  But inability to be complex = bad console.  Jungle Beat's cool but you couldn't play ANY game on the bongos.  Yoshi's Island is a better platformer and you could not play it with the bongos.  You couldn't play Metroid Prime or Pikmin or Super Mario 64 or A Link to the Past on the bongos.  You can make good simple games (IE: Tapper is one of my favourite games ever and it only uses one button and a joystick) but it is limiting to ONLY allow the creation of simple games.  I can play Pong or Pac-Man or Space Invaders on the Cube controller.  I cannot play Wind Waker on the NES controller.  If you limit the controller you limit the ENTIRE library of the console.  Sure you'll get some good games but certain "complex" games will be impossible to make.  A library of entirely "simple" games SUCKS.  It's one dimensional and limiting.  If I want that I'll buy an Atari 2600.

And even if the console can play complex games it would still suck if simple games were Nintendo's focus because their best games are reasonably complex.  They have such talent and it would be a complete waste for them to focus on going back to point based games that became outdated in the mid 80s.  Not only do I want a Nintendo console capable of complex games I want Nintendo to make them.  Once in a while that's fine but Iwata talks like the days of Nintendo classics as we know them are over and simple games is Nintendo's future.  Jungle Beat's cool but I don't want it to be the template for other Nintendo games to follow.  

[darknight06]

OK, I just read the article and now I have a question?  What's the problem again?  I'm not seeing the reasoning for this sudden mass Paranoia.  He basically just said everything that he's mentioned before.

"A recent magazine article sparked widespread speculation that the Revolution's controller would feature no buttons other than a DS-style touch screen."

I really wish the media would can it with these speculations.  Remember this thing's supposed to be backwards compatible.  The controller ain't going to change a whole heck of a lot at least for Cube support.  Besides, the DS already has a touch screen and all something like that would do is jack the price up even more than necessary, which is something they don't traditionally do with consoles at launch.  Not to mention the fact it wouldn't be able to recognize more than one input at all rendering it useless without buttons.  And I'm not worried about online either, DS will be online and the Revolution will follow it's plan.

I swear, some of ya'll will work yourselves into a coma.

[nemo_83]

You have to look at what he said from the point of view of someone who does not buy Nintendo right now.  That is who he says he is after, but the way he is wording things is confusing to non Nintendo gamers.  The people who are not up on the lingo are going to be lost in Iwata's ambiguous statements.  What do you define as online gaming?

Simply LANing over the internet is not enough.  You need to have access to statistics, user and friend information, forums, and other options.  Options is the key word.  If you are into random gaming done by some computer have at it.  I like the ability to log on and look up who is online.  I hope that when Nintendo says community they mean something similar to nintendo.com forums.   I believe one can if one chooses to get involved more deaply into online gaming.  I admire the idea that you don't even have to plug in to play let alone the prospect of not having to mess with all the setup if one chooses not to so that one can just hit power and play; but I don't want to see Nintendo offer a formless online plan allowing third parties to charge for their own service.  I like the idea of free online and believe if Nintendo can do it right then everyone can, but I hear a lot of skepticism from fans of MS's Xbox Live subscribers who enjoy that there is one bill.  I argue with them that with Nextbox online will not be standard since one must buy a harddrive to go online.  They argue that third parties will start charging for their own online or won't go online at all for Revolution.  I hope they are wrong.  But these quotes from Iwata are only going to fan flame wars.

Nintendo needs to confirm past comments that there will be no touch screen or screens on the Revolution controller.  If Iwata wants to say something to sell Revolution he should be talking about how Nintendo is going to keep present gamers gaming because if the PSP launch is any indication the same old same old approach from MS and Sony will fail with the next consoles.  This leaves Nintendo as the only hope left for gamers, but if they do something stupid and JUST slap a touch screen on the center of the controller people are just going to keep playing what they already own and not buy the new stuff from any of the companies.  Graphics are not enough to excite the gamer anymore.  Niether are gimmicks.  People are looking for THE solution.  People are looking for THE revolution.  If noone delivers then the door opens for a new era of gaming not owned by Sega, Nintendo, MS, or Sony.    

[zakkiel]

Nothing Iwata has said implies to me that the Rev controller won't be able to function like a perfectly normal controller. I think the major plan is to have a more flexible input device capable of acting like a normal controller. This is the direction Ninty's going right now by including extra features - microphones and tilt sensors - that don't compromise the ability of any gamer to pick up the controler and have it feel natural. Next gen it goes one step farther. Picture a GC controller - capable of MAGICALLY TRANSFORMING INTO BONGOS!!! Or - probably not.

Anyone who seriously believes the Rev isn't going online needs to have their head examined anyway, so who cares about exactly what Iwata says about it? Besides which, I believe he did say that they intended to go online and make it fully acessible - Gamespot just paraphrased that part rather than quoting.

[Caillan]

I like how he's focusing on making it easy for developers. After GDC, this is good timing (especially as his speech curried a little interest from devs anyway). Still, a familiar API should help developers produce Revolution titles quickly during the start of the next generation. Now I think they need good, cheap development kits that are quite accessible to small developers.

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Guess what, Ian? You need to pull your head out of your ass and realize this isn't "Ninty's chance to please only Ian"...They are trying to expand the market, and to say "Oh I do not agree because I don't care about non-gamers" is hilarious...And I love how you keep on assuming "simplicity = bad game" when Jungle Beat proves the exact opposite...

He didn't say that. He said he's concerned that in catering to 'non-gamers' Nintendo will neglect their core audience. You consistently misinterpret that statement.

[foolish03]

I fear what this supposed user interface might be.  What if it doesnt attract casuals and alienates hardcore fans.  Then what will nintendo do.  This E3 is going to be insane.  Cant wait.  

[ThePerm]

maybe they'll dup the kidney xy in favor of a snes style diamond layout..then people wont go...oh my god its different!

[darknight06]

Screw that, one of the things that's was cool about the controller was that every button had a defined feel to it.

[Savior]

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.They are trying to expand the market,

fine fine fine... expanding the market is good BUT not at the cost your hardcore base.  Nintendo needs a balance between the DK Jungle Beats and the Metroid Primes... Making a system full of simplistic games with two buttons might add moms and non gamers, but you risk having your base jump ship. And then that means your "Expanded market" means loosing market.


I trust Nintendo will field a balance. Take the DS for example, it had games that might atract Non Gamers, but stuff like Mario Kart, Metroid, Castlevania, and Animal Crossing are 100 percent Hardcore

So a Balance is nececary, and iwata needs to shut up. I personally hope Reggie gets more air time from now on. Reggie knows how to speak, and do it well. Everytime Iwata speaks it leads to controversy and discussion and doubt. Let him stay in Japan in an office somewhere and do his president thing. Let Reggie take point on all press.  

[ThePerm]

It'll be nice deving for revolution with the same api...because if they are already devs then they can start working on revolution without actually needing devlopment kits.

Also companies like ea who have all their code organised into little banks all set up neatly for updating.....well they just have to update it for more. The differnce between what rev will do vs gamecube.....more ai, more polygons, more lighting, more shading efffects, more textures...other than that alot will be the same

[Truthliesn1seyes]

Alright people, go have a drink and relax.  I don't know why everyone has to overanalyze everything Nintendo says then twist it in some way or another to become something negative.  

As for the online debate.  Think of it this way, the DS is supposed to give a look at where Nintendo is going with their online ideas.  SquareEnix is helping them in some way or another as Miyamoto has stated.  If Squareenix is willing to invest its time, money, and effort behind Nintendo for its online service, I'm sure it isn't some extremely basic LAN gaming.  Also, Gamespy is helping develope the online aspect of the DS.  I'm sure Nintendo isn't paying Gamespy to develope some extremely basic LAN network

As for the controller debate, who knows what it is.  Anyone's guess is as good as the next man's.  Nintendo has been the only company to set the standards for controllers so I'll just go on and assume they know what they're doing

As for Nintendo neglecting their core audience  in favor of "non gamers", don't worry so much.  I'm sure Nintendo will continue outsourcing games in order to have these genres filled.  This will leave them to continue doing what they do best (supporting us hardcore fans) while still being able to support the "non gamers".

Anyways, on to the good news that I got from the article.  I'm loving the fact that Iwata has been suprised at the responce they have recieved from developers.  In this current genneration where graphics and tech are all that developrs seem to be worried about, its good to see that developers are showing a positive responce to this Revolution concept.  Nintendo must be doing something right.  We'll find out soon enough though.

[darknight06]

Well put, a breath of fresh air amongst the hysteria of PGC as of late.  Seriously guys, some of ya'll really need to lighten up.

[nemo_83]

http://gamesradar.msn.co.uk/news/default.asp?pagetypeid=2&articleid=35046&subsectionid=1587  

[darknight06]

I'm still not buying it until I actually see what this controller is.  Otherwise I'm calling it speculation.   I still don't see them using a touchscreen for the controller, not with backwards compatibility in mind.  

[slingshot]

The butterfly effect...

Many times IWATA is quoted, and that quote is translated, and the quoted, and maybe translated again, and then quoted,
but each time it is "interpreted" by the writer for his readers.  by the time we hear anything, it is quite different than the
original comment.  Give me a video clip of Iwata speaking English, and I will take it more seriously than regurgitated ""s.

I believe Iwata has been saying for a while now that the REV will NOT have a touch screen.  I know I read it somewhere.
I think it was in his KEYNOTE speach?  

Nintendo DOES make simplistic games- they always have- AND they make awesome violent RES EVIL games, and cool
Metroid Prime games, and awesome! Zelda games.  They have diversity unlike any other system!  If you have to own a
console that only makes hardcore games, Nintendo is not for you.  But if you are okay with the fact that Nintendo makes
some of the coolest hard core games, and happens to make some really awesome I LOVE HALO 2 games that you don't care about,
and will never buy- but make the company tons of money so they can continue to be in the race, and make games for you-
then buy Nintendo.

Does it matter what Nintendo does outside of your gaming interests?  I don't sit here and wish that nintendo ONLY makes
games for hardcore gamers- let them make games for everyone.  They aren't sacrificing anything.    IF they want to source
out to DIsney to make some rad I LOVE HALO 2 games- they havn't wasted any money or time doing that.

I can't understand why people think that Nintendo is making a choice between styles of games.    Some consoles focus on
genres, Nintendo focuses on versatility- that is why they will always be around.

(As far as the online debate- )  I will buy it I could care less if they go online for myselft- so I guess I'm still buying.

[slingshot]

I didn't see anything in this article that quoted Iwata as saying touchscreen- I did see the auther of the article quote
another article as speculating that there could be a DS style touchscreen-   That doesn't even merit speculation.  WHY?  
you cannot use a touchscreen controller, because you would have to look at the touch screen to see where the buttons are,
and you would not be looking at the game screen- so you would not be able to play the game- and it would not be
'intuitive'!   Gyros however would be intuitive to nongamers, and gamers.    But we will only wait to see- and There are a
lot of words in this forum about the REV controller- that are way off base- so I hope you Nay-sayers are hungry.