Topic: Darker Zelda

[odifiend]

I am of the opinion that Miyamoto and his apprentice, whatever his name is... Anumora?, took the Zelda series in the lighter, cel-shaded direction partly because the previous Zeldas, OoT and MM, were becoming more and more dark.  These dark themed Zelda's were pushing the series toward the Teen rating which would destroy Miyamoto's vision for the series, of a video game for all ages.  Along with the darker themes, there were the darker images of Redeads and Skulltulas which would probably haunt many kids.
Darker themed Zeldas were so awesome, so,I think, a spinoff game(s) should be made with those themes in mind.  There is little chance that Nintendo would let Link draw blood or walk through skull covered caverns.  But guess who could get the ok?  That's right our favorite Gerudo, Gannondorf.  This is one awesome character completely untapped by Nintendo.  He is entirely badass in his leather, armor and cape.  Other than @ SW 2k, he has never used his wicked sword (had it in SSBM but never used).  The guy is a mage, he could bring all sorts of new magic to the Zelda series (I like Link's sword spin but it has been done to death).  He could acquire all these items of power (cape, rings, triforce, maybe justify those earrings to us ), build and break alliances. So many possibilities...  

[Bill Aurion]

Zelda and spinoff should never be in the same sentence...

And come on, Wind Waker wasn't taken in its graphical direction for the reason you listed...Ninty just decided that taking the series in a more realistic direction wasn't the way to go...And how can you say that Wind Waker wasn't "dark"?  I thought the ambience was much better than OoT's...

[mouse_clicker]

[SPOILERS!!!!!!]





Ganondorf is defeated by having the Master Sword embedded in his skull for crying out loud- don't let the cel-shading trick you into believing Wind Waker was all cutesy and light hearted.

[Polemistis]

Yes lol, I was suprised that they did that!

[Polemistis]

But back on topic, yes I agree that they should make Zelda darker and more mature then WW. No more cel-shaded Zelda after the next one, it just dosen't fit.

[Bill Aurion]

Quote
Originally posted by: Polemistis
But back on topic, yes I agree that they should make Zelda darker and more mature then WW. No more cel-shaded Zelda after the next one, it just dosen't fit.

Let's give a big "WTF!?" to that in bold...

[Gibdo Master]

Oh dear lord. I thought we had seen the end of this "MAEK Z3LDA DARK3R1!111 WTF" crap. That's all I saw on Zelda boards before and shortly after Wind Waker was released.

Quite frankly you don't get the Zelda series if you feel cel-shading doesn't fit the series. Go play your "mature", violent, bloody games with big polygonal breasts and leave the Zelda series alone.

[odifiend]

I'm saying that this could be an answer to all crying for "darker" Zelda along with a cool expansion into the series.  Gannondorf is cool but is always made out to be (until WW) a 2D villian.  Why not expand on him?

[odifiend]

Sorry guys I might have been unclear.  It's not that I'm disappointed with Link or the Zelda franchise, it's that I want to see more of Gannondorf.  In OoT, all he did was reflect crap back at you, and he should have been better than that.  Yes in WW you fought him but with Zelda's... interference and he had those two puny swords instead of the wicked one.

[thepoga]

still, that fight was awesome. it wasnt very hard, but it was just... awesome. ummm... ya....  

[Jale]

Zelda might get darker and I would probably like it if it did

What I dont want is Zelda gettin redder. Blood. Gore. Yawn pass the salt.

OoT is probably one of the darkest games I have played. Dark = Sinister not Violent

[odifiend]

No one is saying you need gratuitous gore but if blood can add to or seems right in a certain event don't not put it in.  Gore doesn't automatically make a game bad, nor does it automatically make a game good.

[Polemistis]

Quote
Originally posted by: Bill

Quote
Originally posted by: Polemistis
But back on topic, yes I agree that they should make Zelda darker and more mature then WW. No more cel-shaded Zelda after the next one, it just dosen't fit.

Let's give a big "WTF!?" to that in bold...

Making Zelda cel shaded makes it look even more of a kiddie game. Don't you feel the difference that the graphics make? Compare OoT + MM to WW. OoT + MM gives it a teen looking game, WW brings it down a few ages because of its cel shading. Sure they have those a dark dungeon and those undead guys, but still it just dosen't feel the same.

[Bill Aurion]

And gore doesn't belong in the Zelda series, period...

[Guitar Smasher]

I wouldn't mind seeing an enemy having wounds or cuts.  But making them splatter when you slice them would just be overkill.  Make them look blood-hungry, but don't make them spray the screen.

As for the Cel-Shading, if they want to bring Adult Link back into series, then they won't be able to do cel shading.  The two just don't mix.  Try imagining cel shaded adult link.  It wouldn't work.

[odifiend]

Bill, earlier you disagreed with me that the graphical change was made because "Ninty just decided that taking the series in a more realistic direction wasn't the way to go." I don't think Miyamoto just randomly decided that, "hey I want to go in a completely different direction after two incredibly successful and acclaimed games."  
Zelda is an art form; it is always praised for its graphics and style.  It is the original Role Playing Game so it tends to be realistic in setting and story (if you ignore the fairies).   The realism of OoT and MM's setting mentally had me thinking that it was the middle ages.  That there should have been scenes of war and violence, which was not completely unthought of by Nintendo because after Gannondorf raided Zelda's castle, there was a dead soldier whose last duty was to beg Link to carry out Zelda's plan.  Raids aren't happy and smiling and bloodless, the fact that there was no battle, that all the town folk just kept living their lives the same way was kind of ridiculous.  In the medival setting that Miyamoto created so beautifully, people should have fled and people should have died.  The middle ages were a terrible time and gore was unavoidable.  On the GameCube, I think Miyamoto would have felt obligated to put gore in his game if he kept the style similar to that of OoT.  Hence the switch IMO. (Of course there were probably other or even more important reasons but I think that was a factor)
My spinoff idea is a way to keep with the universal success of the Zelda series (and also my selfish desire to see Gannondorf, the most badass character Nintendo has, in his own game ).  And don't say Zelda and spinoff should not be in the same sentence because that's what 4 swords and Tetra's Trackers are.

universal success defined as not just diehard Zelda fans and people who wanted a free copy of OoT and MQ.

[Bill Aurion]

I said that the two shouldn't be in the same sentence, not that it hasn't happened...*cough*Cd-I ACK*cough*...

And the gore factor is just an off-shoot of realism...Ninty realized that they didn't want to take the series in that direction(though I fear it may have to curve towards that direction eventually), so they went a path that lead to a much more ambient game...

After going back to OoT over the weekend, I realized how "dead" OoT feels...There's no sense of ambience at all compared to Wind Waker, where you notice little things like the grass blowing and emotions on characters' faces...Things that just aren't possible in a "realistic" game right now because consoles just aren't powerful enough...

[Berny]

Maybe, if we were to use darker shades of green on Link these whiners will go away.
And maybe Zelda should look like this.

Come ON people. Zelda was NEVER as dark as you want it. It has its dark moments but it will never be like GTA (thank God). Mouseclicker mentioned one of them in WW and that isn't the only one. I frankly don't want a Zelda standing over a pool of Ganon's blood and feasting on his dead corpse. I like the series as it is and in the direction it appears to be going. Ugh, I am so sick of...some people.

EDIT: Hopefully fixed the link.

[Ocarina_Jedi]

When comparing OoT + MM and WW, the most obvious thing to consider is that the N64 is completely outdated next to the GC.  OoT and MM took a graphical look that was supposed to be cutting edge for the current market.  (Looking back at those games, my eyes hurt.  Ugh, what texturing...) WW focused on something else.  While the graphics for WW are gorgeous, they aren't cutting edge.  The guys at Ninty instead focused on "little" things.  Facial expressions, grass blowing in the wind, realistic physics, etc.  If you say that current consoles can't handle both 'little things' and cutting edge graphics, do you suppose the N5 will?  That is the kind of Zelda that I want to see.  OoT was a dark game, in the sense that it was sinister, not violent.  God forbid that Link should ever get an uzi and hold up the local bomb shop, but I would like to see another game that featured a 'darker' story.  I don't care what you guys say, but WW did not create feelings of impending doom.  The only other person in the game who seemed to be aware of the danger, was the King of Red Lions.  It was a happy game despite the approaching danger, which gave it a kiddy feel.  Didn't that bug anybody else?

[Bill Aurion]

No...

[Polemistis]

Yes I do Ocarina_Jedi.  

[Jale]

Thats one of the problems with WW: It wasn't dark enough in the story sense. In MM the moon was going to crash into the planet. In OoT the world was corrupted and on the brink of destruction. WW was too safe. The next one should really put the fear of Gawd into any person who plays it, not because of zombies or anything, because you feel like you are doomed to fail, so when you win it is a truly rewarding experience.

[BiteMy~uK]

I guess no one read that thing where Miyamoto(sp?) stated why he went in the cel-shaded direction.

He said that he decided this because this link is not related to any other link at all. "each new zelda game has an entirely different link" (I believe I quoted correctly) and that's with the exception of majoras mask. He wanted a new link, with a new look.

If you notice the kid you play in WW "is not link". You give him whatever name you choose, and nothing ever says he is link, just a decendant of the great one from OoT. He may look (sorta) like the classic link but that doesn't mean it is who he is, does it?


And on the darker subject:
I would be happy if they took a more realistic graphic look (not blood and gore). And one with more of a "sinistar" plot as some of you put it (very well I might add), But if the next one is a new for of cel shading without the shading I will play it. I'm a fan of the series and even if there were some things I diss-like about WW (the shading, how short and easy it was...) It was an over all good game. My vision of the next zelda game when I got my cube was OoT with mind blowing gfx, Though I got WW I'm still happy I got my zelda game, Now... I say, Bring on the next one With a side of Zora!

[The Omen]

People who are saying 'darker' are in most cases not talking about GTA style.  I understand the point, and sometimes i would like to see what a N5 Zelda in the OoT or MM style [notice i didnt say realistic?] would be like.  But i'm quite happy as long as the play is just as good as all the others.  I think the story is dark on occasion, and i feel there is little wrong with any Zelda game i've played, including The adventure of Link.  Bottom line-whatever direction Nintendo goes, i think it'll be great.  It would be cool to have  a Ganon game, kind of intertwine the two series, story wise.  I would love to be Ganon in one game, then be Link in the next.

[BiteMy~uK]

One of the things I still can't figure out is that Miyamoto said that WW was a dark tale, and he thought darker than the previous ones... where in the storyline of WW is it darker that OoT or the other ones?