Topic: Best of the Wii: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[NWR_Josh]

Motion controls: justified!

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/connectivity/31951

We all knew this one was gonna show up somewhere. Skyward Sword makes its mark at no. 2 on our list of Top 10 first-party Wii games. Neal, Carmine, and Josh recount their time with Link's latest adventure, all while forgetting what items are called and mispronouncing the names of key characters. Hey, it's been a while, lay off!

[pureval]

I knew this was going to be up there and I could not disagree more. Oh well, I am not going to convince anyone at this point. Kind of curious what is left to be #1.

[NWR_Neal]

Well, I couldn't disagree more with people who don't like this game. So I guess we're even.

[broodwars]

No. Just....no. This ****ty, boring, irritatingly-padding, randomly-ugly, terribly-designed game doesn't even deserve to be on this list, let alone the second-best 1st Party Wii game. 

Yeah, I didn't like this game.  The only thing about the game I thought was worthwhile was the Symphony of the Goddess soundtrack included with it.  And for all the hype over the controls, I found that the game wasn't well-designed around their limitations and so the controls frequently frustrated me.  But even that wasn't nearly as terrible as the game's pacing, which may very well be the worst of any 3D Zelda title.

[NWR_Neal]

I couldn't disagree more.

This is legitimately one of my favorite games in the past 5 years. Outside of 2 or 3 frustrating parts, it was a joy from start to finish. I dug the controls. I dug the gameplay. I dug everything about this game.

[Ceric]

I think there is enough there to warrant putting this game in the Top 10 but, #2 I don't personally agree with.  Simply reasoning being this game should be below Metroid Prime 3(MP3).  For the simple fact that MP3 I actually wanted to finish.  This game I'm about halfway through after being hyped to get it and feel no real need to finish the game at all.

[NWR_Neal]

I never finished Metroid Prime 3 and have no intention of ever finishing it. I finished Skyward Sword and will likely play through it again.

See? We are all different people!

[Ceric]

I never finished Metroid Prime 3 and have no intention of ever finishing it. I finished Skyward Sword and will likely play through it again.

See? We are all different people!

No, we are a harmonious collective regulated by the playing of rhythm games by different nodes of the collective.  Neal node your large contributions to the regulation process has been noted and we shall look away this time.

[NWR_Neal]

Is this like an Aparoid thing?

[Lithium]

I wasn't a fan of this game either, but I'm not sure if it was because this is the game where i finally got sick of the Zelda formula or if i just didn't like this particular game that much. Although much of the hate this game this game gets is pretty hyperbolic (surprise, surprise) because we usually expect the best experience possible when it comes to this series and when it doesn't deliver people freak out. I bet that if this wasn't a Zelda game, but a Zelda clone in the vein of Darksiders or Okami this game would probably be widely liked.

edit: pretty sure its pronounced "gear-ah-heem"

[AV]

No discussion on podcast about the time crystals ?!

[Ceric]

No discussion on podcast about the time crystals ?!

Really,
Time Crystals were neat.

[NWR_Neal]

Time Crystals were fantastic. One of the moments of the game where I was just wowed. Soooooo awesome.

In our defense, this is a tough game to cover in a limited amount of time. These segments aren't meant to be definitive.

[VickiL]

I wonder if this will be like Wind Waker, and this game will settle better in 5 years or so.

For my part, I enjoyed it quite a lot.  I started playing it again just a couple days ago (in anticipation of it's appearance near the top of this list), and I'm enjoying it even more.  I constantly blew myself up the first time I played, throughout the whole game, but this time I'm not struggling at all.  Can't wait to see if Tentalus schools me again.

[Sarail]

I absolutely love Skyward Sword. As a matter of fact, it's my favourite 3D Zelda. Not my favourite overall Zelda, but definitely my fav 3D Zelda.

I'm really surprised this didn't land at #1. I'm really curious as to what IS #1 now...

But yeah, SS had me feeling like a little kid from beginning to end. Reminded me a lot of when I played ALttP so long ago. Everything from the art design, the motion control mechanics, dungeon layouts, and even the parts that some of you guys consider "padding" were all thoroughly enjoyable. I especially loved the Silent Realm portions as they were quite intense and made me very nervous and anxious as I plotted through them. Loved it. As far as the sword mechanics go, I don't wanna play another Zelda game without them. Seriously. I could see them being even more fine-tuned on the Wii U, which would lead to an even smoother experience than what SS offered - and SS's were great! Bomb rolling was especially fantastic. Very fluid movement there - you can tell it was ripped right out of Wii Sports bowling. Again, loved it.

If another Zelda using Motion+ is created for Wii U, I'd like to see the GamePad used in its "stand" position as a Map/Inventory screen - maybe even using the pointer to point AT the GamePad screen to select weapons/items. It does have a IR built-in after all. Either way, I'm sure the next Zelda is going to be another brilliant addition.

Very pleased to see SS at the #2 spot.

[oksoda]

I thoroughly enjoyed Skyward Sword. There were times when the controls would frustrate a bit, but it's a gorgeous, ambitious game. I think it will be the template that the next handful of Zelda games follow, much like Ocarina of Time before it (and a Link to the Past before that). I can't really understand all the negativity surrounding what is an earnest and joyful game throughout.

[broodwars]

I can't really understand all the negativity surrounding what is an earnest and joyful game throughout.

That's because all you Skyward Sword fans are delusional.   : :

I likewise can't understand all the positivity surrounding what is a boring and thoroughly un-enjoyable game with terrible combat (thanks to combat requiring motion control the Wiimote simply can't do consistently, even with Motion+), uninspired level design, and quite possibly the worst pacing & repetition issues the series has ever seen.  Seriously, a couple of years from now, everyone will be acknowledging how bad this game is just as they currently acknowledge they got sucked into the Twilight Princess hype at the Wii launch and ended up overrating a mediocre game.

[NWR_Neal]

I think we played a different game. Are you sure you didn't just play Twilight Princess again?

As documented around the launch of the game, I carefully thought about the game in a larger context, full well knowing how much I didn't really care for TP a few years later. I could be proven wrong and make an aboutface, but I loved this game and have wonderful, fantastic memories of it that will be rekindled every few years when I replay it. Just like Wind Waker. Just like Ocarina. Not like Twilight Princess.

[Sarail]

Yeah, I don't understand the gripes about the motion control in the game. It worked almost flawlessly for me. The only time a hiccup ever occurred was when it needed to be re-calibrated. But guess what? The game has a seamless built-in re-calibration technique that allows you to do just that and continue playing without any major diversion. It works great, and I really only had to use it when firing off the hookshot, bow/arrow, or any other "pointing" type weapon/item. It was  rare when I had to, and it was never a nuisance.

Seriously, brood. Do you have C3PO arms or something that keep you from playing games such as SS properly?

[broodwars]

Seriously, brood. Do you have C3PO arms or something that keep you from playing games such as SS properly? : :

There's a reason people have problems with the game's 1st boss & certain enemies in the game that require feinting or rapid changes of direction on your slices: the Wiimote is not sensitive enough to detect when you are moving the sword without executing a slice.  Plus, thrusting the Wiimote to do a forward thrust sucked when the Wii launched and it still sucks now since Motion+ doesn't add any extra sensitivity on that type of motion.  And guess what the hardest bosses in the game and most of the general fodder enemies use?  Right...both techniques.

Plus, it always rubbed me the wrong way how enemies would hold their weapons when they fought you.  NO ONE holds a sword(s) like they do, and it reeks of artificial telegraphing that really ruined the immersion for me even when the controls did work.

[NWR_Neal]

So I guess you don't like it when bosses' weak points glow, either?

[broodwars]

So I guess you don't like it when bosses' weak points glow, either?

Not particularly these days, no.  But even that doesn't feel as artificially as someone trying to "guard" by holding their swords at perpendicular angles so there's an obvious hole for you to swipe through.

[NWR_Neal]

About as artificial as having a talking sword companion? Or fighting sentient plants?

Maybe you should just start fencing and give up video games altogether. They must be way too artificial for you.

[Ceric]

I do like Fencing.

[broodwars]

About as artificial as having a talking sword companion?

Don't get me started on Fi or the Trials.  Seriously, that master of boring redundancy somehow irritated me more than Ocarina's Navi, & I didn't think that was possible.

[NWR_Neal]

But fairies aren't real. So that artificiality must have really pissed you off in 1998, right? I mean, seriously, Z-targeting? How is that a thing?! Totally not real.

[broodwars]

But fairies aren't real. So that artificiality must have really pissed you off in 1998, right? I mean, seriously, Z-targeting? How is that a thing?! Totally not real.

That's a Straw Man argument, and you know it.  I'm criticizing a mechanical element of the game that's supposed to be "more realistic, more immersive because it's like real sword-fighting!", but which actually isn't because of the artificiality.  You're bringing up fantasy elements that are meant to be fantastic.

[NWR_Neal]

Maybe, but I think it's absurd to be miffed at the way Bokoblins hold their sword in a game that is a video game based on fantastical elements that has any number of similar video game tropes present throughout it.

Once again, I'm sorry that everyone who disliked Skyward Sword doesn't really seem to like fun things. It's nothing personal. I really wish you guys could find as much enjoyment as I did out of that game. Just thinking back to it makes me happy (and then get really frustrated at the Imprisoned for a bit, then get really happy again). I'm sorry you don't have those same fantastic Wii-affirming memories.

EDIT: Z-targeting and flashing enemy weak points are fantastical? Did I miss a Tolkien book about them?


I'll admit I'm being a little flippant with how I'm presenting it by referencing fairies and Deku Babas, only because I think that complaint is based around a misconstrued expectation of what this game is.

[Evan_B]

I think Brood doesn't understand that Zelda games are spaced out a great deal, and to some people, Skyward Sword will be their first experience, while to others, it's their tenth.

Zelda games are formulaic, there's no problem with that. They're not really known for their story, they're known for giving a very consistent and continuously engaging puzzle-and-adventure feeling. That's why the locales rarely change, because every game needs those "fire/water/forest" dungeons as an introductory course of how the game plays. The environmental design of these games is top notch, especially with the varied height in the locales and emphasis on terrain exploration.

Now, I'm not saying Skyward Sword is perfect. But I think everything that it does is polished and fun, and if you don't find it fun, then I think you need to take a step back and play the game again and really identify what it is about it that you don't like. I think it's a great "first Zelda," as in, anyone who plays it as their first Zelda experience will probably love it. But complaining about the artificial nature of how enemies hold their sword is a bit silly- with the combat being the way it is, enemy sword fights had to function a certain way, and I'll be quite honest, I think the swordplay in this game is far more engaging than any of the previous Zelda titles.

Oh, and dat music.

[Fjurbanski]

My favorite part of the game was the second time you fight Girahim. Not because it was tense or anything, but because I completely decimated him. That was the point when I learned how great the combat was. He is technically a more difficult boss than he was the first time you fight him (he has a greater variety of attacks, etc.), but he was no threat to me. During the first battle I was fumbling around, not really sure how to go about attacking him, missing hits, getting my sword caught, etc. During the second battle I was parrying him, deflecting his projectiles, dodging everything, and didn't get my sword caught once.


Adding the second Girahim fight was a brilliant move on Nintendo's part, because it directly shows the player how much progress they've made. I don't know if that was their intention or not, but I noticed it. I had an easier time defeating a more difficult boss because I had greatly improved my own skill. It wasn't some item that made me stronger. I was simply better. I've never gotten "better" at the swordplay in any Zelda game. Because, well, they never required it. I didn't refine any techniques. From beginning to end I simply held my shield up to take hits, and tapped away on the sword button.


So yeah, this isn't my favorite Zelda game. But it's still great in its own unique way. In a way that no other Zelda game has been before.

[pureval]

I really wanted to love the game but the controls absolutely ruined it for me. They simply did not work no matter what I tried. I really felt like I was button mashing instead of having any actual control. I thought Twilight Princess was awesome (and deserved a spot on this list) and have already replayed it. I will probably never replay this game. The only enjoyment I really got out of it was the neat golden Wiimote.

[Kairon]

I want to go on record that Twilight Princess was one of the most disappointing experiences I've ever had playing Zelda games.

Like Neal said, we're all different people.

[Ceric]

I want to go on record that Twilight Princess was one of the most disappointing experiences I've ever had playing Zelda games.

Like Neal said, we're all different people.

Darn it Kairon Node.  Stop peddling False Claims.

[NWR_Neal]

I like how Josh spoils Dark Knight Rises in this.

[NWR_insanolord]

I haven't started this game yet, despite buying it at launch (I do love my gold Wii remote, though; I never use anything else anymore), but this podcast really made me want to go back and do it.

[Sundoulos]

I need to go back and finish this as well.   I kind of gave up around the Water Dragon segment, but that's partially because it's just more difficult for me to find time these days to game via console than it is on a handheld. 

That being said, I think the fetch-quest nature of the tasks prior to the dungeons served to turn me off just a little.  I appreciate what they tried to do with the dense areas on the ground, but I also wish the sky areas felt a little more "alive."  I didn't feel that there were enough different things to explore around up there.  I would have liked to see more ancient buildings/temples or crashed, ancient aircraft in the skies. 

[Mop it up]

I feel Skyward Sword is the best Zelda since Ocarina of Time. It definitely has a few bad moments of filler content in the game, but it seemed like a lot less filler than previous games, which made it more tolerable than games like Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. If it weren't for my nostalgia for Ocarina of Time then I wonder if it'd be my favourite 3D Zelda,  but I'll never know.

I'm not sure where the retroactive hatred of Twilight Princess comes from though. I enjoyed the game a lot more than Wind Waker and Majora's Mask.