Author Topic: I'm getting sick of Unreal.  (Read 4057 times)

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Offline Smoke39

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I'm getting sick of Unreal.
« on: June 03, 2007, 12:04:27 AM »
I think I've played through it like 23019238754983 times in the last month, testing a mod for balance.  That's a lota times.  I think it's even more times than I've played through Deus Ex, let alone in a month.  (PS the mod is the first I've ever finished in ~8 years of modding :D).

I'm putting this rant in the funhouse because I don't expect anyone to care.

So anyway, not only am I sick of the bloody game (Whoever designed the Titans sucks.  They're not fun to fight, they're just tedious.  And they suck.), but I've noticed a bunch of broken junk.  Like the stupid Krall carcasses.  Their collision height is the same as living, upright Krall.  Do you realize how irritating that is when fighting groups of Krall?  It's like, you shoot one down, then you go to shoot another one, but your missile rocket hits a big pile of nothing above the other Krall's carcass and blows up, and then you're like, "@#?$! stupid carcass collision settings!" because you just wasted a rocket on a carcass, which is pretty irritating.

And the rabbits.  They're programmed stupid.  Instead of giving them a reasonable amount of health and letting them take damage all normal-style, they gave it 50 health and overrid the damage function to do nothing if the amount of damage taken was less than five, otherwise it would unconditionally die.  Not only that, but it wouldn't die in a normal manner, it'd just fling a piece of bloody meat out and disappear, bypassing the normal death procedure that informs everyone else that it died, so if you kill bunnies in my mod, you don't get any money, even though the targeting computer says they're worth Â¥100.  Stupid.

And be careful with crates.  I was trying to stack a bunch so I could climb up onto this box thing because there was a shield belt up there that had my name on it.  So I'm grabbing these crates and flinging them around with my harpoon, and some of 'em go flying over my head, at which point they disappear for no reason.  No reason at all!  So I'm left without enough crates to get to the top of the box thing to get the shield belt which is worth like Â¥10, and I don't wanna spend any money on a pair of wall jump boots and stuff to climb up the wall, so I used a cheat to fly up to the box instead.  Because the crates are stupid.

And the melee code in Unreal is lousy.  In the amount of time it takes an enemy to prepare to punch you in the face, you could easily get behind them if you'd sedated them a bit, or at least jumped to the side to dodge the attack.  But nooooo, as long as you're still within range and not behind a wall, the attack will succeed.  Not only that, but the hit location the attack passes to your damage function is meaningless.  Instead of aproximating the actual point of impact, it just feeds you your center.  This was causing a shield I'd made for my mod to work incorrectly, since it was supposed to only protect a certain region.  So I had to put a dumb hack in your damage function to aproximate the hit location itself.  That didn't solve the problem of being unable to dodge, though.  And then I ended up taking the shield out, which caused me further frustration.  I left the hit location aproximation hack in anyway, out of spite for the stupid melee code.

Also, the AI doesn't properly honor your visibility.  If it's set to 0, they'll ignore you.  But if you shoot them while invisible, or if you go invisible after shooting them, they'll be able to see you fine, and start killing your head off.  Stupid.  If I want my invisibility item to decloak you when you attack, I'll reset the player's visibility!  So I had to implement another hack that forced enemies into some passive state while you were invisible.  Which shouldn't be necessary.  But it is, because the AI is programmed in a manner which is stupid.

That's all I can think of to rant about right now.
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Offline S-U-P-E-R

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RE:I'm getting sick of Unreal.
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2007, 01:58:14 AM »
unreal is for girls, maybe you should play quake iii instead

Offline Shecky

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RE: I'm getting sick of Unreal.
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2007, 02:49:38 AM »
Unreal engine is a bit dated... I wonder how hard a port would be to some of the newer ones?  Are they any better?

I wrote a few Doom2  levels back in the day... I remember going from the envisioned level to what I actually got being no where near the same due to the limitations of the tools and engine.  The on thing I did get right was the Cyberdeamon on his throne (with the exit behind him, and the baron and knights of hell at his side ) as you fought the legions of monsters in the arena.  

Oh and right before the final showdown, the two gates underneath the cyberdeamon would release a couple of those enemies that would resurrect carcasses.... given the field was *covered* with dead sprite counts (to the point that they would go invisible - not be rendered) they spent the entire time trying to resurrect enemies - which, aside from their random movements, made them a bit easier to kill ironically.

It was a particularly evil level, that I probably still have on a floppy somewhere

But I remember the limitations I had...

Wanting to make rooms for these enemies to be stored in so they could warp out into the arena at set times... but I had to create little channels between the warp room and the arena so that they could "hear" the gunshots and walk  towards the warp panels.

Also, I couldn't make it so that a set number of kills would lower the walls to those panels (and release the next wave of enemies) so I had to raise switch panels for the user to flip... which wasn't as intuitive and they could easily miss them lending to a "where too now?" problem...

Offline oohhboy

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RE: I'm getting sick of Unreal.
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2007, 04:49:05 AM »
Oh, I would so like to play that level Shecky. It seems very Serious Sam of you.

I messed around with level editing with Wolf3D. I just made large rooms filled wall to wall with dudes to kill. Some of the rooms were too large and the enemies wouldn't even appear. It was suprisingly boring.
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Offline Shecky

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RE: I'm getting sick of Unreal.
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2007, 05:01:49 AM »
Heh... like I said though it would be a little bit confusing and in the end is more of an endurance challenge that can be some fun (maybe ) otherwise it does get a bit boring, especially if you just use codes.

Of course I'd have to find the floppy... and

It would be more of a challenge to get a working copy of Doom2 I'd imagine...  

Offline oohhboy

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RE: I'm getting sick of Unreal.
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2007, 05:18:48 AM »
Who said I was going to use the codes?

Most games don't test peoples endurance anymore. Even Serious Sam 2 failed that task. RE4 never threw enough Zombies at me most of the time to even consider pulling out the shotgun. That was mostly reserved for shields and laziness. Genades for laughs. I can't remeber my last extended fire fight that wasn't a multiplayer game like Americas Army.
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Offline ShyGuy

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RE: I'm getting sick of Unreal.
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2007, 05:40:10 AM »
I used to be way into the Quake III mode Urban Terror.

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: I'm getting sick of Unreal.
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2007, 08:09:56 AM »
I make loli mod for Spring.

Offline Shecky

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RE: I'm getting sick of Unreal.
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2007, 08:51:43 AM »
Well after remembering that I bought DoomII the only media that I can find that would have it is the Quake Shareware CD (HA - Good luck to me I know), and that CD seems to fail in the now new, Windows XP world.  There was a disk shoved in with the CD too, that's likely the level... now I just need to find a floppy drive!

You think tech support will help me?? (More like they'll just want to sell me Doom II for $20 ..... $20!!!!!!!)

Offline UncleBob

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RE: I'm getting sick of Unreal.
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2007, 09:34:10 AM »
If you can find it, go for this:

http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Ultimate_Doom_Trilogy:_Collector's_Edition

I picked up the edition with the DOOM 3 extras in a JC pack at Wal*Mart for $10 some time ago.  Runs perfectly in XP and includes DOOM, DOOM II and Final DOOM.  I think it included the 20(+1) "Master Levels for Doom II" as well, but they're not listed on that Wiki page and I don't have my disk handy to double check.

Doom II - the last great FPS.
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Offline ShyGuy

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RE: I'm getting sick of Unreal.
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2007, 09:36:42 AM »
No. The last great FPS was Duke3D.

Offline UncleBob

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RE: I'm getting sick of Unreal.
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2007, 10:08:41 AM »
I think you have forgotten what the word "great" means.
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Offline Smoke39

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RE:I'm getting sick of Unreal.
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2007, 02:52:21 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: S-U-P-E-R
unreal is for girls, maybe you should play quake iii instead

If I cared about multiplayer-centric shooters I'd go back to modding one of the UT games.  But I don't.  I don't know how Unreal's crazy network code works, anyway. XP

Quote

Originally posted by: Shecky
Unreal engine is a bit dated... I wonder how hard a port would be to some of the newer ones?  Are they any better?

UT'99 is barely any different from Unreal.  Coding-wise, UT2kX is pretty similar.  Some of the built-in classes are structured differently, you can have traces register when hitting the surface of water, and there are some more iterators.  Damage types are classes instead of just names, which is pretty nice.  I can't think of any other differences that I've encountered.  There are a lot of new graphical capabilities, though, which are fun to play with.

U1's level editor is pretty unstable, but I'm not really a mapper.  I've tried starting a few levels before and sometimes I end up with some pretty neat, surreal stuff, but never know how to expand them into more than one room.

Bob: Duke3D is awesome.  Anyone who thinks otherwise has no appreciation for amazing level design.  
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Offline UncleBob

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RE: I'm getting sick of Unreal.
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2007, 04:00:44 PM »
The Duke3D level design was good (some pretty awesome secrets and I seem to remember some pretty cool deathmatch levels), but other aspects of the game left a bad taste in my mouth.
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Offline S-U-P-E-R

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RE:I'm getting sick of Unreal.
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2007, 04:32:12 PM »
I wish other games would use holodukes :[

Offline UltimatePartyBear

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RE: I'm getting sick of Unreal.
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2007, 04:24:05 AM »
I wish more games would let you shoot through teleporters.

Offline KDR_11k

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RE:I'm getting sick of Unreal.
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2007, 07:43:59 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: PartyBear
I wish more games would let you shoot through teleporters.


Quake 3 and 4 do.

Offline UltimatePartyBear

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RE: I'm getting sick of Unreal.
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2007, 07:50:36 AM »
I don't recall that in Quake 3.  Are you sure that wasn't something a mod added?  I never bothered to play Quake 4 multiplayer.

Offline Smoke39

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RE: I'm getting sick of Unreal.
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2007, 07:16:22 PM »
Balance is hard.  How do you make optical camouflage useful without making it overpowered?
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Offline that Baby guy

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RE: I'm getting sick of Unreal.
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2007, 07:17:40 PM »
Make 75% of the body transparent.  Like everything but what's below the knees.  Duh.

Offline Smoke39

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RE: I'm getting sick of Unreal.
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2007, 08:18:12 PM »
The AI in Unreal isn't smart enough to acknowledge that.
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Offline Shecky

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RE:I'm getting sick of Unreal.
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2007, 05:18:56 PM »
Well, thanks to zdoom and a 1999 backup CD that I finally dug up (for the doom2.wad file) I got a working copy of doom2 for windows FREE!

I also found my level

SheckyColoseum.wad as I have now called it
SHA1: 64CBF59A3BC3261D162D9BBC790A9D4894F8A638

I played through the level several times and it really brings back memories.

Notes on the level:

1) The begining door has to wait like 30sec plus before you can open it... I think I put it in there so that the up to 4 players supported could all join via their modems

2) With a mouse and keyboard the level is a lot easier than I remember... but all the health is avoidable if you so desire.

3) If you play the level and are confused at what triggers what, look around a bit for a goodie of some sort, especially near the last wave of enemies (or go to where they came from)... It's not logical, but if you actually try it and get stuck let me know and I'll tell you the triggers.

4) There are "bugs" in the sense that you can break a lot of the rules, and create shortcuts via recoil for example that normally get worked out of standard levels.  If you know how doom works, switches don't have to be visable to be thrown as everything is in a flat 2d plane

5) Since it's coloseum style, and doom enemies go after each other occationally, there are different ways of playing to try and get the environment to help you out... adjust your angles, etc.  Sometimes it can be benefical to trip the next wave of enemies early if you can work it to your advantage.

I actually think these above two are "features" as it actually can give a little variety to how it plays out each time.

6) The level uses some one time warps (they only trip once).  So if you suddenly warp, and you think it'll always happen, it may not.


Screenshot
Caption: CyberDemon on his "throne" with the exit behind  him.  Several waves of enemies down and the walls show the scars from the battle (I think zdoom remembers a lot more than the original did )  

Offline Shecky

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RE: I'm getting sick of Unreal.
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2007, 02:34:26 AM »
One one more note.  If anyone actually gives this a shot, I'd be curious on the thoughts good or bad, long or short.  (The free hosting provider give me no stats on files so I will not know if anyone downloads it)