Topic: My Theory On Nintendo In The Modern World

[Sean]

I had that same feeling.  I actually broke my rule--I didn't want to play it until I got the game itself, but I couldn't help myself at Babbages a few weeks ago.  It's utterly gorgeous isn't it?  The strange thing is, most people in there weren't paying it much attention.  It always confuses me when the average gamer will look at something like Zelda: The Wind Waker and see it as "just another game."  To me, it actually does look a bit (understatement?) better than most games out there right now.  Is it just a mixture of Nintendo nostalgia and bias?  I hope there's more to it than that, and in fact I believe there is.  Anyway, that's an example of Nintendo in today's America.  Just another company, if not worse.

[egman]

I know what you mean by people not paying attention to Zelda, or even avoiding it. I was playing it at Wal-Mart the other day and this young couple were watching. The girl thought it was cute, but the boyfriend thought it was little TOO cute and proceeded to check out X-box stuff.

I swear too many people are putting way too much into this image thing, which I think is one of the biggest signs of immaturity and insecurity. What's worse is that MS and Sony are conciously exploiting this obession and contributing to the dumbing down of the video game industry. Yeah, it's good business, but I pity the direction things will be headed to in the next couple generations. Ironically, we probably saw more "mature" games in previous generations of consoles and computers than what we are seeing now as the race to take over our living room with set-top boxes heats up between MS and Sony.

Video games are just that, GAMES. People might as well lap it up and play what they think is fun, not what their friends or the competition says falls under real of "cool."  

[thecubedcanuck]

The thing that got me was the motion of Link. He moved as if he were alive, the way he climbed up on things, the way he rolled and swung his sword.
I was litterally in awe.
I honestly thought this would suck being "cel shaded", but what I saw wasnt a cell shaded game at all, I saw a real life cartoon, a cartoon I became part of. I stoof there for a long time playing, I actually lost track of time.
The sad thing was how easily I got to try it, maybe because I was in a suit and tie, or just because I was the only person in the GC section.
Everyone seemed to be gawking at The Getaway on the PS2.
As I walked by the kids playing the PS2 set-up I said "you should ot try Zelda on the GC display, I just hope it isnt to hard for you youngsters"

I smiled all the way back to the office.

[cubist]

Going back to the original post, it was a very well written theory despite error with the GTA 3 reference.  I'm 25 years old and I've been a fan of Nintendo since I first laid eyes on Super Mario Bros. in 1987 visiting a cousin in San Francisco.  There is no doubt in my mind that Nintendo's gaming properties have always defined gaming both collectively and individually.  However, as Rick pointed out in an earlier post, Nintendo's audience has grown up.  A lot of gamers have broken off into two different sects:  (1)  They've outgrown videogames; and (2)  They've grown into the hardcore Nintendo subculture of 25 and up who have stayed with Nintendo.  All you have left to sell to are the mainstream "brainwashed-by-hype" gamer of today that follows what's cool and what's not.  

GTA 3 is a very important game in terms of flexing the rating system.  If you recall during the Mortal Kombat SNES (censored) vs. Genesis (uncensored) era in the U.S., when there wasn't a war for Congress to worry about, video games were being heavily scrutinized.  It was a new era for the videogame industry.  However, with the rating system that was imposed, companies are now able to create properties with more flexibility.  Personally, althought GTA 3 was a very impressive game in this respect, the Mature rating is best used for intellectual story-telling purposes (i.e., Eternal Darkness).  I'm not dismissing GTA 3 as not possessing intelligent story design, but think about the gamer who doesn't pay attention to the missions in the game and drives around just to shoot and run over people and/or picking up prostitutes for sexual encounters - they outnumber those who actually play the game to progress the storyline.  This is based on observation and not some real experiment in case I get questioned as to the source of my statement.    

[Sean]

Cubist (great name), absolutely.  I've seen it a thousand times with GTA3 (okay...not a thousand)--I dare say MOST people who play it ignore the storyline in favor of the murderous free-for-all we know so well in GTA3.  I refuse to get all judgmental here, but you can't help but feel that this isn't where games should be headed: a gamingdom where everything is open-ended, the story and countless gameplay techniques can be ignored, and where the main draw is, quite simply, kill stuff and wreck over and over and over for months and months ad infinitum!  I do know quite a few people who've played the game in its entirety, or attempted to, but it's so odd that the NORM is actually the former, not the latter.

It hurts the industry creatively because money really does come first, and that's just a fact.  And companies will go where the money is.  Hence, all the countless GTA imitations, which itself is an imitation of many lesser, poorly-made games, isn't it?  Hence, all the unfair ire towards Nintendo concerning their conservative views and "archaic" game-making techniques.  It just dominoes.  Part of me says this will not last forever, and that sooner or later it will even back out.  It all just needs to be brought back into focus, and that can't really start until gamers break out of their camps and start enjoying games again.  It's just really hard when there are so many options (I know that sounds absurd) because then you want to constantly justify that you made the right decision in buying your console.  If there were just one system, prices would surely suck, but the arguments would likely be more about the games, I guess, than it is now.

In short, I will not blame GTA3 for the limited ways in which the masses play it, and I realize this isn't an exactly black and white issue, but there is a lot of information to be gleaned from just talking about this sort of thing.  It reveals a lot about us and our culture.  And right now we see a pretty obvious shoving away of anything considered "immature" and a hearty hand-hold on anything deemed "mature."  As we all know, the modern definition of what makes something "mature" is so ridiculous it's really not even funny.  So, perhaps this isn't Nintendo's problem at all, in that it's not something they have to fix: they just have to wait for people to wise up again.  I understand what everyone's saying about how the N-fans grew up and into two different camps, and yet I still remember when people of all ages loved Nintendo.  Perhaps this is still possible.  There is but a small problem: getting all those anti-Nintendo types to swallow their machismo and try Nintendo out again, without fearing whether or not their social clubs will object.   ;-)  Just kiddin' frat guys!

[cubist]

I've been in this forum for the past four months and this issue always seems to come up --" the mainstream gamer vs. the Nintendo gamer psyche."   Although I would agree that the accumulation of sales of GTA 3 and/or GTA: Vice City is greatly due to "Joe Gamer", I believe the videogame industry that our Nintendo subculture originated from is completely different to today's videogame industry.  The label we've placed on today's mainstream gamer now will probably the same label they will place when next generation of gamers hit the market 10 years down the line.  For example, we've defined mainstream gamer as anyone who buys into "hype" and drives around the GTA world running over pedestrians and picking up hookers.  Due to the fact that this market evolves drastically from generation to generation, this same mainstream gamer is probably going to label the next future generation "mainstream" because they'll probably be playing videogames without the use of controllers (this is just an example).  Its almost like comparing the World War II generation vs. the 60's generation in the U.S.  Its not a question of bringing the masses back into focus once the Grand Theft Auto theme is over-saturated in the market.  Its accepting the fact that perhaps you and I were a part of the Nintendo generation of old and our values were much different.  This sentiment is also synonymous with the way Nintendo operates as a company.    

If Nintendo wants a piece of the market back, then unfortunately, they have to evolve with today's generation.  However, if they are happy with their place in the market, which isn't half bad in terms of profit, then by all means continue with the same business philosophy.  As for you and I, the Nintendo gamer bred from the NES and SNES era, pretty soon we will become relics of this industry and placed along Pong, Dragon's Lair, and Pac Man at the Smithsonian.      

[Sean]

Not to sound egotistical (after all, it's the posts that make the thread), but this thread should be bottled up and blasted into space; it's been a great conversation, and we've hit on most of the major topics that have been discussed in the past as well as injected some new life into them.  So, thanks for that, all.

Cubist, it seems you really nailed it in that last post.  The "classic" gamers have such a starkly different perspective that we have to wade through all sorts of nostalgia and baggage before we can arrive at any sort of truth.  On top of that, our experience with games is much more far-reaching and wide-ranging, and this gives us, by default, first-hand knowledge that better informs our opinions.  

That said, I hate to get all self-righteous, especially when it comes to talking about video-games, because what games were always meant for was to entertain us, and we all know that entertainment changes when it moves from a niche to mass markets.  With that come fads and debates and laws and controversies and arguments concerning the nature of art and on and on and on.  If you really dig into it, there's much to learn from it all, as with any form of pop-culture.  Yet, in the end, if you're having fun, I guess that's good enough!  ;-)

So, yes, a time capsule.  That's a good place for this.

[Gamer Donkey]

I'm sorry, I just can't let this beautiful thread die knowing there are users out there who still haven't read it.

[VideoGamerJ]

I think that the games that have most influenced and shaped gaming through out the 90s were problably (and some will disagree)...

-Super Mario World
-Sonic the Hedgehog
-The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
-Super Mario 64
-Pokemon Blue and Red (Maybe)
-Goldeneye
-Final Fantasy 7
-The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time

Now, I'm a major fan of some of these. I believe that even though Nintendo may not recieve the user base they deserve, it's obvious that gamers that do not play Nintendo games will be missing out on really great games. If you look at some of the greatest games with mass popularity, you'll find Nintendo holds almost all of those games. Sure GTA was a game and it was fun, but I would not go out by saying that it shaped anything.