Topic: Like niche game? Support the eShop

[BlkPaladin]

I wrote this a bit ago, but I will post it here. Didn't see a related topic so I made a new one.

With Nintendo first loss in decades it seems that Nintendo is less willing to take risk when it comes to localizing titles especially with physical media. A good example of this would be the project Rainfall titles. The titles were translated and localized for Europe why did NoA bulk at localizing it for the US and Canada, the biggest reason is the investment that was still involved. Nintendo as a whole is a conservative company when it comes to taking risks. And profits were falling because of the rising yen and the long console cycle taking it toll. The media involved is the single biggest investment outside of originally developing a game for a publisher. Once it is made you cannot unmake it, and if you have a game were you expect it do a certin amount and it doesn’t cover the investment especially if they are only expect 100,000 titles the investment may not be worth it, since if it doesn’t sell you will be sitting on the unshipped discs. And the ET incident and more recently the Gamecube over production incident may be in Nintendo’s mind.

With the advent of their new machines they are also having digital copies of their game along side of the physical copies which softens the investment to localize titles, since there is an option of having it all digital in nature. So games like Project X Zone may see release outside of Japan, in the form of a digital release. More examples could be Radient Historia, if the digital version could of been offered the supply issues could of been avoided since they don’t run the chance of under-estimating the needs of the market also.
The problem is support where the support of the 3DS/WiiU eShop is better than the WiiWare it still not totally there yet, though there are promising results. So if there is a digital version I suggest buy it. It will show Nintendo and other publishers that there is a market for these games, and there is a market for games that may or may not originally see the day of light from the bigger publishers since the investment to bring them out will be lower so less games may be canceled because they are not considered projects that would make back the money.

Also promotions such as Nintendo’s Digital Deluxe Promotion may see an extension, which I would very much like to see since it is effectively reducing the price of the digital games 10%.
There are other benefits to supporting digital like helping smaller developers prove their worth so they can fund more ambitious titles.

[MrPhishfood]

I can and have bought download only titles but the problem I have in the UK is that eshop prices are almost always 25% more than what can be found at an online retailer.

So a title that I can get for ÂŁ40 will cost ÂŁ50 on eshop.

I don't think it will be a problem whether or not we choose to specifically support the eShop. If there's a great game you want to play and its only available on eShop then that's where you go to get it. Nintendo can localize a game and put it on eShop first to gauge popularity before making the leap to physical disc.

[ShyGuy]

Downloadable only games are going to get more feature rich and complex. I hope we see a lot of studios releasing B grade titles as download only.

I can think of a number of third party Wii titles that would have benefited from being available in download at maybe a reduced price. Cursed Mountain, Deadly Creatures, Zack and Wiki, Spyborgs, Mad World... Heck, it would make Nintendo titles like Excite Truck, Excite Bots, and Punch Out easier to access.

[Ian Sane]

The problem is I want a physical copy so I will only buy a digital copy if that I want the game and that is the only way to get it.  My desire for a physical copy comes from mistrust of these big videogame companies.  Digital distribution relies on a service that these companies can turn off at any time.  If I keep a physical copy in good condition, in theory, I should be able to have it for life.  So I'm just not going to give the eShop much business as long as I have my preferred alternative.

So Nintendo lost money and is less willing to take risks but I think that ironically being too conservative is the cause of the loss.  Nintendo didn't want to localize the rainfall titles so instead they let the Wii rot for it's last two years with only a small handful of new titles released.  With such a lineup you figure EVERY release would be important to maintain the public perception of the Wii being a current and well-supported platform.  NOA saw the potential poor sales of the rainfall titles but not the potential damage of letting one of the most successful video systems of all time become irrelevant, years before its successor came out.  They lost money because they essentially had no console product for most of 2011.  Even if Xenoblade lost money, it would at least maintain the perception that the Wii was well supported and that the Wii had a steady stream of titles.  There is marketing value in that.  Instead NOA pissed away all the momentum the Wii had created and the Wii U has had to start over fresh.

After the N64, Gamecube and Wii, Nintendo now has a reputation for giving up on their consoles before they get replaced.  What sort of risk is there in having THAT kind of reputation?  Is that worth filling in release gaps with niche titles that might lose money?

[ShyGuy]

The niche titles are less likely to lose money if they don't have the expense of publishing physical copies and distributing them to stores. They can also have discounts to extend their "long tail" sales.

[Pixelated Pixies]

So if there is a digital version I suggest buy it. It will show Nintendo and other publishers that there is a market for these games, and there is a market for games that may or may not originally see the day of light from the bigger publishers since the investment to bring them out will be lower so less games may be canceled because they are not considered projects that would make back the money.

I don't want to be selfish or anything, but I'll start being more supportive of digital once Nintendo (to use a Belfast colloquialism) 'wises up'.
 
As was discussed on the latest episode of RFN, Nintendo do in fact appreciate and understand how downloadable licenses work on competitor consoles, but they believe their own approach is better (their own approach being locking games to systems rather than profiles). That might work for some people, but the problem is that Nintendo's approach to downloadable games just doesn't make me feel comfortable enough to want to buy these games on their platform.
 
To bring it back to your point though, I'm happy to support niche downloadable games on any platform (provided they're fun and interesting) but I don't think the onus is on us here. I think it's on Nintendo to provide a platform with more flexibility and more incentives (see Playstation Plus).

[ShyGuy]

I think Nintendo will come out with a universal eshop someday. Market forces demand it. At that point, we may see more incremental hardware from Nintendo. A constant catalog of games, updated platforms every few years.

[Mop it up]

I support niché physical games.

[NWR_insanolord]

I sold two of my Wii U disc games in order to buy eShop cards which I used to buy the same games digitally. I don't think I can support the eShop any more than I already do.

[Pixelated Pixies]

I sold two of my Wii U disc games in order to buy eShop cards which I used to buy the same games digitally. I don't think I can support the eShop any more than I already do.

Before I decide whether or not you're crazy, what were these two games?

[TJ Spyke]

I'm guessing FIFA Soccer 13 is one of them.

[NWR_insanolord]

Oh, I'm definitely crazy. I'll make no argument against that. And TJ's right, FIFA was one of them, as well as its EA Sports partner in Madden. With as frequently as I play those two, I wanted them to be available on the system at all times.

[Mop it up]

His name is Insanolord, what the heck were you expecting?

[NWR_insanolord]

There are truth in advertising laws in this county.

[Pixelated Pixies]

So I assume your Wii U external hard drive will eventually be filled with FIFA and Madden games. 2012, 2013, 2014, (2015 skipped due to nuclear war), 2016, and so on?

[NWR_insanolord]

Well, I'd guess they'd be first in line to be deleted when I need to make room, but until that becomes necessary I suppose that's accurate. I'll probably keep this version of FIFA around, though, because I intend to win the English Premier League with the Seattle Sounders and I'm going to want to hold on to that save file.

[azeke]

If you're talking about indie devs, any kind of unrelated popular proprietary digital shop isn't the ideal way supporting them. Steam, eShop, App store, XBLA and the likes take significant cut of the sale for themselves, and then put your game on sale with ridiculously low price (with your permission i gather, but still).
How can you call yourself a supporter of the game XX, if you bought it on Humble Bundle or Steam sale for one dollar some months after it was released?
If you want 100% of your money to go to devs, go for the official shop on their site, if available.

As to niche console games... I really don't think buying them on full retail price on eShop will give devs more money than usual sale. More likely Nintendo will take the difference.

[shingi_70]

See here's the problem I have I only buy digital when

1)Its being at a pretty decent discount. (I picked up saints row 2 on xbox live last week fro $10)

2)Its something Niche like Disaster.

3) Its a Game that I always want on my console for various reasons (Monster Hunter Tri or Wii Fit U)

Also one of the things is if I get eshop cash instead of using it to get something like super mario sticker star i'd rather use it to support a Nintendo digital only new IP (the mo series, or Sakurai samurai) or my money is going to indie devs.


Also azeke just made me feel bad as I just Mark of the Ninja for half off on xbox live.

[ShyGuy]

Joel from Frozenbyte doesn't seem to have a problem with the Nintendo e-shop. In response to the statement that Trine 2 is selling "fairly well" From teh GAF:

Joel here - just to comment on this, Mikael probably should've said just "well". That's what he/we mean. I can't disclose sales numbers as per Nintendo's policy (not that we'd be the first in line to do that anyway), but we are happy with them. And by contrast we are not happy with the XBLA/PSN numbers - it seems like they are very hit-driven nowadays and only the top-3 or top-10 games really sell well unless there's a huge marketing budget attached or similar hype garnered through other means. Quality by itself doesn't seem to matter much. This is bad news for us because quality is our strongest weapon in the marketing/quality/positioning triangle.

Anyhow I'm fairly confident in saying that Wii U will be our best console platform. Whether it's the "launch effect" or eShop's better visibility, or the general quality of the game and the great word of mouth - thanks to everybody! - or sheer luck, I don't know - but we'll take it.

[azeke]

It helps immensely when you're one of mere five DD offerings on console launch.

It's still blue ocean out there.

[broodwars]

Joel from Frozenbyte doesn't seem to have a problem with the Nintendo e-shop. In response to the statement that Trine 2 is selling "fairly well" From teh GAF:

Joel here - just to comment on this, Mikael probably should've said just "well". That's what he/we mean. I can't disclose sales numbers as per Nintendo's policy (not that we'd be the first in line to do that anyway), but we are happy with them. And by contrast we are not happy with the XBLA/PSN numbers - it seems like they are very hit-driven nowadays and only the top-3 or top-10 games really sell well unless there's a huge marketing budget attached or similar hype garnered through other means. Quality by itself doesn't seem to matter much. This is bad news for us because quality is our strongest weapon in the marketing/quality/positioning triangle.

Anyhow I'm fairly confident in saying that Wii U will be our best console platform. Whether it's the "launch effect" or eShop's better visibility, or the general quality of the game and the great word of mouth - thanks to everybody! - or sheer luck, I don't know - but we'll take it.

So in other words, Frozenbyte didn't appreciate that there's actual competition on PSN/XBLA (unlike the Wii U eShop), so mediocre (but pretty) games like Trine 2 don't sell. Got it.  Sorry, but given some of the things that have sold on XBLA/PSN, I can't agree with their stance on digital sales for the other platforms.

Yeah, I liked Trine 2, but that had more to do with my love for the original Trine and having the opportunity to do all that again with a much prettier coat of paint.  As a game itself, it's pretty inferior to the original Trine (mainly due to the level design and the way they dialed-back exploration and character advancement).  They really shouldn't be surprised that the game really didn't take off released as it was in the final weeks of the year IIRC.

[TJ Spyke]

He's right though, it's fairly hard for a game on XBLA or PSN to sell well if it doesn't get good advertising from Microsoft and Sony.

[broodwars]

He's right though, it's fairly hard for a game on XBLA or PSN to sell well if it doesn't get good advertising from Microsoft and Sony.

Obviously they didn't pay attention to what happened with WiiWare last generation if they think Nintendo will be any better once the console launch period ends and Trine 2 isn't competing with some pretty terrible eShop games (and NanoAssault Neo).

[TJ Spyke]

Nintendo has done a good job with the 3DS eShop, so I think you are wrong.

[broodwars]

Nintendo has done a good job with the 3DS eShop, so I think you are wrong.

Are you kidding? Stuff gets buried in the eShop all the time.  I don't see any indication they've done any better marketing on that damn thing than on either of the HD consoles, especially since Nintendo's "marketing" is mostly a press release that likely very few people read dumped in your Email inbox several days after it's relevant.  You occasionally see banner images for the "hottest" new game, but even that seems random.