Author Topic: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off  (Read 21323 times)

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Offline smallsharkbigbite

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2014, 05:02:23 AM »
Digital all the way. Physical is for people who sell their games regularly, share them, or collect them.  None of that applies to me and the convenience of it trumps all.  Plus sales are steady and regular for what I want.


Physical is for people who will want to go back and revisit game experiences 10+ years from now when many of those games are unlikely to be re-released ever.  One of the systems I've started getting into recently is the Dreamcast.  It has alot of gems and reminds me alot of the Gamecube.  Some of those games have been re-released and some have not.  Since Dreamcast is a physical format it's easy (if costly) to track down all the games available for it.  Had it been a digital only console the only way I could get games for it would be to track down a dreamcast that had it downloaded to it and the owner was willing to part with their account info on the machine.  That or emulate which I strongly prefer not to do. 


Physical is also for people who care about replicating the initial experience.  I'm thinking of Donkey Konga/beats series.  The bongos are very unlikely to ever be re-released for any future Nintendo console.  As such, the game can be re-released but it won't have the same features and won't give the user the same experience in the future. 


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They are the only side with something to lose (more to the point, something that almost certainly will be lost eventually).


In the extreme, I'm going to die and nothing I have on earth will come with me.  To a lesser extreme, it may be difficult to find a working Gamecube in 25-30 years from now making physical games difficult to play.  To me, I'm still think that's a better alternative to digital which will most likely not make it that long. 


But I do disagree with the point in general.  When great games are no longer playable on any format, all gamers lose.  The digital generation may not know what is lost yet, or care that it's lost initially but I think alot of those gamers will eventually miss games that they enjoyed that they can no longer play.  When I was in college, I bought/played/sold everything.  At one point I had purchased >100 Gamecube games but owned <5.  I was a machine at getting rid of them quickly to recover as much of the original cost as possible (obviously money was tight).  7/8 years after getting rid of many of those games (and not thinking twice when I did) I began to miss the experience that many of those games brought me and my friends (many of who will play Gamecube games with me but have no desire to pick up new systems).  Those games define a time in my life and experiences that I (and my friends) can easily go back and experience and have a great time.  I guess I've reached a point in my life where I feel new games are not necessarily better than old games and having the old games available is important.  If there was a future (other than emulation) that all games could be reproduced digitally than I would probably be less concerned about physical/digital debate. 


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On handhelds, what I've started doing is either buying games on sale - Atlus is quite good at this - or using retail discounts to make sure I *want* to keep a game, then I'll buy it digitally and trade it for what I've paid after I move the save over. I can usually get close to what I paid for it. (Example: I bought SMTIV on launch day for $33, bought the eShop version a couple of weeks ago for $30, and traded the physical in for $19. Net cost: $42.)


I don't want to be rude, but I'm kind of dumbfounded by your example.  You "waited" for a digital sale, but ended up having more money in the digital copy than if you bought day 1 digital.  The only way your system is financially better is if it assumes that you sell all physical copies and don't convert them to digital (at a loss) very often because you don't want to "keep" the game.  But then again, the opportunity to sell if you don't want a game is one of the big pluses you'll be losing in the future since digital doesn't allow you the option to see if you want to "keep" the game.  So it seems to me that you like having both physical/digital available and deciding (based on your preferences) which format to choose for each game. 


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The storage solution isn't so bad for Nintendo people since they use existing standards - USB hard drives and SD cards. I paid $5 for a Y cable to use a little 500GB pocket drive I picked up a few years back for my WiiU, and I got a 64GB SD card on sale for $40 for Boxing Day. I'm about to drop $110 on a similar sized card for my Vita and will be doing it with teeth gritted so hard they'll snap in half.


Comparing Nintendo's crappy solution to a worse solution doesn't make it better.  Proprietary hardware always sucks and should be scrapped.  PS3 is the gold standard.  Simply plug in a laptop hard drive.  No secondary power supply to power to have (or Y cable using up both of your USB ports so you can't charge a pro controller).  No planning to figure out how to either hide the additional box or make it fit in a stand.  Cheapest prices available.  It's been awhile since I've looked, but I'm sure I've seen 1 TB drives for <$60.  Not withstanding, most people have had laptops before, it's usually easy to find a drive and re-purpose it to the PS3 for a net cost of $0 (which is what I did).  It just seems silly to me.  Nintendo wants to be the cheapest but hidden costs like this negate the cheap factor (except for low powered hardware which you'll still have).     

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Offline smallsharkbigbite

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2014, 05:18:34 AM »
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On handhelds, what I've started doing is either buying games on sale - Atlus is quite good at this - or using retail discounts to make sure I *want* to keep a game, then I'll buy it digitally and trade it for what I've paid after I move the save over. I can usually get close to what I paid for it. (Example: I bought SMTIV on launch day for $33, bought the eShop version a couple of weeks ago for $30, and traded the physical in for $19. Net cost: $42.)


Sorry, I forgot SMT4 was $50 at launch.  Still seems like a lot of work for little gain.  Based on your #'s 33-19= 14 +30 = $44.  So you ended up with what you want for slightly cheaper.  It's closer after you factor in that you paid tax twice instead of once.  Even closer yet if you made a trip to a store specifically to either pick up SMT4 or trade it in.  That and no game save transfers. 

Offline Adrock

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2014, 08:13:37 AM »
Unless I'm upgrading the same system, I rarely trade in hardware. I like preserving that feeling of playing a game on the hardware it was originally made for, particularly on Nintendo handhelds because they have this annoying habit of changing the aspect ratio in successors. Sometimes that's not possible and for that reason, I like that digital is an option. If anything happens to the old hardware (e.g. natural disasters, negligence, accidents, etc.), it's nice to have access to those games without getting bent over the coffee table in the collector's market to replace the actual hardware.

Nintendo's all-or-nothing transfer policy is limiting to put it lightly. I understand the reasoning for this on digital downloads, even though I disagree with it. I especially HATE that the process deletes even save data from the original system. I had no digital downloads on my Wii, but it would have been nice to bring my save data from my Wii to Wii U (without deleting the data from my Wii), mostly for spur of the moment Super Smash Bros. Brawl sessions. Ultimately, I don't know how long Nintendo can stick to this policy and I think we're already seeing them bend. I strongly prefer having the physical copy, but I can live with a digital future so long as the really annoying bits get rectified.

Offline xcwarrior

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2014, 09:37:57 AM »
To destroy the digital arguments:

1) Most games that are rare nowadays are of the older generations. Just don't wait to buy the game. And the one from generations are not only hard to find physical, but probably not even available digital. Once something is available digital, it won't have that crazy physical value (with some exceptions). Ikaruga I'm going to pick up on Steam now, but that's a rare case of an old hard to find gem being reborn on digital.


2) "If I drop my copy of Chrono Trigger into the bath, it's done for." - You're kidding right? Who takes their copy of Chrono Trigger into the bath? Seriously, doesn't count.

3) "As I mentioned in the introduction, I'm a chronic video game seller. I've sold almost every single piece of gaming hardware and software I've ever owned, and I've regretted almost every sale."  - And this is why we shouldn't be listening to your argument to go digital....

4) "The Storage Solution: Standards, Standards, Standards" When your SD card dies or "gets dropped into the bath...." you lose all of your games. Not just the one game you dropped in. All of them.5) This is just you babbling about nonsense. I can still physically see I own the game, and my friends are still in awe of my plastic cases with next to nothing in them.
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Offline NWR_DrewMG

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2014, 09:52:10 AM »
Your solution is to buy every game when it's new?  Awesome!  Can I borrow a couple grand?
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2014, 10:28:54 AM »
I had Ikaruga on Gamecube. It cost like $20 at the time. Then, I traded it in like an asshole and not due to its rarity, but because my brother loved that game more than I realized at the time. I was able to rebuy Phantasy Star Online Episodes I and II again for him, no such luck on Ikaruga. He was elated when it was released on Steam recently.

Honestly, I wish we could just always have both though that's not terribly likely.

Offline ejamer

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2014, 11:27:29 AM »
A bit disappointed by the "go digital" arguments.


Point #1 is fantastic and certainly worth talking about. In my mind, this is one of the absolute biggest benefits of digital distribution. Unfortunately, after this point the debate goes downhill pretty fast.   Point #3 in particular is pretty laughable - a lack of judgement/self-control makes digital purchases a good idea? Hmm...
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Offline NWR_DrewMG

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2014, 11:30:19 AM »
One point I should have made in the editorial, but didn't, was that as the proud father of a 2 year old girl, I don't have a need to have any EXTRA plastic in my house.  I have plenty of plastic toys that belong to her.  Any action I can take that prevents more plastic stuff in my house is a success.
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Offline ejamer

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2014, 11:36:30 AM »
One point I should have made in the editorial, but didn't, was that as the proud father of a 2 year old girl, I don't have a need to have any EXTRA plastic in my house.  I have plenty of plastic toys that belong to her.  Any action I can take that prevents more plastic stuff in my house is a success.


This is also a good argument for durability of physical releases. In most cases, physical games are durable enough that they will last if treated with any reasonable level of care. Even occasional accidents (even dropping in a bath tub) will usually not cause issues.


Having young children around is a whole different story though.
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Offline Soren

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2014, 12:20:38 PM »
Wait.


So we all believe that once something gets put on the internet (a photo, documents, whatever), it's there forever. But then we turn around and think that there's some magical kill switch that will send all digital versions of games into the ether after a determined amount of time, forever lost in a digital sea. What?


It's a bit naive to think that there aren't digital preservation efforts going on to match what we have with books, films and optical media.


All forms of physical media decay over time. When it comes to video games, companies don't have long term preservation strategies because it didn't dawn on them that people will still be playing these games 40-50 years into the future(and that's still short term thinking). It's the same way people thought motion pictures were a fad, and tons of films were lost after their original negatives decayed or were destroyed.
Nintendo might not care about what happens to the Wii U eShop 20 years down the line. But there will be people who care, and preservation efforts will make sure we can still play those games down the road.


I may have steered a bit off-topic here. But what I'm sayin' is embrace your digital future. Having a shelf full of cases to gawk at is fun and all, but having a slew of titles on your home screen ready to play with just a touch of your finger is pretty freaking sweet, too.
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Offline Hyawatta

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2014, 01:33:57 PM »
I'm still waiting for Wii Party U to become available digitally. I would also like to purchase Nintendo Land digitally; Nintendo Land used to be available on the eShop, but it's not available anymore.

Offline Mop it up

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2014, 06:55:47 PM »
(or Y cable using up both of your USB ports so you can't charge a pro controller).
The Wii U has four USB ports, so if you use one Y cable then you can still charge two Pro Controllers at a time.

Offline smallsharkbigbite

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2014, 07:16:34 PM »
So we all believe that once something gets put on the internet (a photo, documents, whatever), it's there forever. But then we turn around and think that there's some magical kill switch that will send all digital versions of games into the ether after a determined amount of time, forever lost in a digital sea. What?

It's not there forever (well maybe that unfortunate picture is).  I'm a big fan of NR2K3.  There have been thousands of thousands of things made by the community for the game.  Most of the sites that host things are ran by enthusiasts on a paper thin budget.  Most of those sites have shut down and there is no way to get that material today.  Archive.org is full of broken links for those old sites.

I think too, we need to differentiate between what's on the internet and what's on the eshop.  That's what people are talking about the content being removed (or never re-released) on the eshop which is likely to happen.  Especially if one decides to not buy the new Nintendo console.  Nintendo won't support eshop functionality for longer than 10-15 years for the Wii U.  Then you are cut off.  That's not a difficult thing to understand. 

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It's a bit naive to think that there aren't digital preservation efforts going on to match what we have with books, films and optical media.

This is certainly not legal and if Nintendo still exists in the video game industry they will sue that website into oblivion if they publish 1 Nintendo title.

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All forms of physical media decay over time. When it comes to video games, companies don't have long term preservation strategies because it didn't dawn on them that people will still be playing these games 40-50 years into the future(and that's still short term thinking).

Most companies don't have long term preservation strategies because they don't see the financial viability in re-releasing their games (especially when alot didn't sell much the first time around).  Many developers actually went bankrupt so 40-50 years down the line wasn't a concern to them at all.  Nintendo doesn't put effort into VC because they don't believe there to be enough money there.  I pretty much never expect a VC to ever have most of Nintendo's game available for it. 

Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2014, 07:26:43 PM »

Offline Soren

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2014, 08:08:00 PM »
It's not there forever (well maybe that unfortunate picture is).  I'm a big fan of NR2K3.  There have been thousands of thousands of things made by the community for the game.  Most of the sites that host things are ran by enthusiasts on a paper thin budget.  Most of those sites have shut down and there is no way to get that material today.  Archive.org is full of broken links for those old sites.

I think too, we need to differentiate between what's on the internet and what's on the eshop.  That's what people are talking about the content being removed (or never re-released) on the eshop which is likely to happen.  Especially if one decides to not buy the new Nintendo console.  Nintendo won't support eshop functionality for longer than 10-15 years for the Wii U.  Then you are cut off.  That's not a difficult thing to understand.


Growing up on Nascar Racing 2 and 3, I can certainly remember all the mod sites that created content for those games. Like any process of preservation, you can't save every piece of work. But you can try and make sure something has a way of existing once it gets to be obsolete. I understand there's a difference between what's on the eShop and what's outside of it. But it's still all digital media. There still needs to be a concerted effort to make sure these things last beyond their initial boom. The framework of the eShop won't be there, but that doesn't mean the games have to go down with it. Which bring me to...

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This is certainly not legal and if Nintendo still exists in the video game industry they will sue that website into oblivion if they publish 1 Nintendo title.

I'm not talking about sites offering free rom hacks of games or whatever. I'm talking about individuals being able to preserve their own digital game libraries, or museums and libraries being able to have digital libraries of games that come from obsolete game machines.


As digital media becomes more the norm, this is going to be a bigger issue. We already know the whole "you're not buying the game, you're buying a license to play the game" tactic is BS. The European Union has already ruled that publishers can't stop you from reselling your digital games, and the proper framework for reselling used games doesn't even exist yet!


I can safely predict right now that Nintendo (or any other company) won't be able to stop me from doing whatever I need to do to keep my digital Wii U library running. Even long after the Wii U is obsolete(which might be in a few months. -rimshot-).

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Most companies don't have long term preservation strategies because they don't see the financial viability in re-releasing their games (especially when alot didn't sell much the first time around).  Many developers actually went bankrupt so 40-50 years down the line wasn't a concern to them at all.  Nintendo doesn't put effort into VC because they don't believe there to be enough money there.  I pretty much never expect a VC to ever have most of Nintendo's game available for it. 


Just because companies don't see financial gain from preserving digital works doesn't mean governments, museums and other private institutions also won't see value in maintaining those works. I'm not expecting Nintendo to have those kind of views.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #40 on: February 20, 2014, 10:14:33 PM »
There are tons of advantages to digital and physical.  I tend to lean towards physical when it's available.  As others have mentioned, I like having the physical game and feel I'll have a better chance of being guaranteed to play them in 20 or 30 years.  But that's not to say I don't see the advantages of digital.  I would *love* to be able to load all my games up and play them whenever I want.

I would like to say, one downside to digital - often, if there's something changed or edited in the game, the download version is "updated" and the older version is no longer available.  Imagine a world where the DX version of Link's Awakening is the only version of the game you'll ever be able to play.  I like the DX version, but there are some things I like better in the original version - and the screen warp glitch is always fun. :D
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Offline pokepal148

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2014, 10:28:33 PM »
There are tons of advantages to digital and physical.  I tend to lean towards physical when it's available.  As others have mentioned, I like having the physical game and feel I'll have a better chance of being guaranteed to play them in 20 or 30 years.  But that's not to say I don't see the advantages of digital.  I would *love* to be able to load all my games up and play them whenever I want.

I would like to say, one downside to digital - often, if there's something changed or edited in the game, the download version is "updated" and the older version is no longer available.  Imagine a world where the DX version of Link's Awakening is the only version of the game you'll ever be able to play.  I like the DX version, but there are some things I like better in the original version - and the screen warp glitch is always fun. :D
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Offline ResettisCousin

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2014, 11:02:11 PM »
The pro digital editorial made a nice point in lauding Nintendo for using SD cards and USB drives in its more recent hardware.


With that said, my choice is easily physical. One reason I choose physical is because I constantly sell back games I'm not in love with (and I _don't_ think I would find the inability to do this "liberating"). The other reason, which the pro physical op ed didn't drive home enough, I think, is that I feel there's a good chance I'll want to play these games again in 20-30 years. It's straightforward for record companies to keep releasing my dad's favorite Rolling Stones tracks on whatever the medium of the moment is. It will be less straightforward for Nintendo to do the same - if it even occurs to them to do so. Look at their handling of Virtual Console to date. So, the major reason I prefer physical is I think it will be the easiest way to play these games for several decades to come. I appreciate the effort some are making to crack the eShop, etc, but ultimately I don't think it will be as easy as already owning the disc (and keeping it in a somewhat dry, cool environment) and buying one or two backup systems, and dusting my "playroom" regularly.

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2014, 11:40:14 PM »
It's not that hard to find a working NES, and those things were notoriously flimsy. I don't see why everyone's assuming current hardware won't work in 30 years if cared for properly. I'm not sure about Bluray, but I know there's a good chance DVDs will have degraded significantly in that time span as well.
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Offline Vahne

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2014, 11:53:17 PM »
I have no problems going partially digital for my PSP games (as long as the digital prices are lower than used physical prices) and I buy plenty of $2-7 Android games. HOWEVER, I personally think that only a fool would go full digital on any Nintendo console right now. Unless they live in the most secure house in the world and are able to telepathically locate a missing console. Even if the price on eShop for a retail game ever becomes SOMEHOW cheaper than physical, I would still have a hard time choosing digital over physical. Nintendo's lack of an account system (I consider Nintendo Network to be a console identification system) makes me uncertain when it comes to buying games on eShop, especially after having my Wii and DSi stolen. I do buy eShop-only titles, but only because they're cheaper than most retail games and are only available digitally. Even then, I always need to stop and wonder if the game is really worth buying on an insecure platform.
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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #45 on: February 21, 2014, 12:03:43 AM »
Nintendo Network is an account system, it's just locked down to the point that it might as well not be. As I said earlier in the thread, I'm confident Nintendo will continue to improve in that regard, albeit very slowly.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #46 on: February 21, 2014, 08:55:45 AM »
I like the way it currently is. If you want physical games, get that. If you want digital, get that instead. I just like that we've reach a point where digital downloads are even a thing due to the rise of the indie scene. Those games would never be widely available otherwise.

I don't like when a physical copy is partially a download which negates the purpose of getting a physical copy pretty much entirely. I don't mean patches or updates either. For example, the God of War Saga collection has the first three numbered games on disc and the remastered PSP games as download vouchers. On top of that, the vouchers could be expired depending on when you bought it. For rizzle, Sony? They ended up extending the life of the vouchers, but that shouldn't even have been a thing on a physical purchase and Sony is going to run into this problem again when the extended vouchers expire.

The sucky thing about physical games these days is that while you can preserve the game and always have it, patches and updates may not and probably will not always be available.

Offline pokepal148

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #47 on: February 21, 2014, 12:16:23 PM »
Hey baby, I'll show you some physical distribution. :smug:

Offline yoshi1001

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2014, 10:30:57 PM »
One argument that could go either way is the time it takes to acquire the game itself. Depending on how close you live to the store, the speed of your internet connection, and the scarcity of the game, either one might be faster. As it stands, right now I'm looking at a 17+ hour download time for DK Tropical Freeze, a game I could get on disc in less than a tenth of that.
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Offline pokepal148

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Re: Physical Games vs. Digital Games: The Face-Off
« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2014, 11:22:20 PM »
One argument that could go either way is the time it takes to acquire the game itself. Depending on how close you live to the store, the speed of your internet connection, and the scarcity of the game, either one might be faster. As it stands, right now I'm looking at a 17+ hour download time for DK Tropical Freeze, a game I could get on disc in less than a tenth of that.
Another one could be made for how much you would want to replay the game 10 years from now.