Topic: Episode 216: Made from Real Explosions

[greybrick]

@ Noname: I compare the EO games to roguelikes because they are structurally similar. The quest for the amulet of Yendor is not all that far off from the quest to reach the bottom of the Yggdrasil labyrinth. Both genres also share a tendency towards difficult gameplay, and they are also ultimately about moving square by square through a dungeon.

I suppose that's true.  I personally associate those qualities more with the classic dungeon crawler than with roguelikes.  To me, the roguelike stands out because of its randomly-generated dungeons and their tendency to completely reset you upon death: you may be wiser for the experience, but you're back to level one with no items.  I guess it's just a matter of perspective.

Plenty of people throw roguelikes into the dungeon crawling genre, but I see the distinction you are making. I see the current death state in EO to be an evolution of the rogue death state- since you can lose significant chunks of progress but return with your knowledge of the dungeon.

EO's leveling mechanics are much closer to a game of Wizardry, though-which is why I noted it was half-roguelike and half-JRPG. (I know Wizardry wasn't originally a Japanese game)

[noname2200]

Good points all around, especially with the comparison to Wizardry.  I concede the point.

[Kytim89]

I am a little surprised that the RFN team have not picked up Monster Hunter 3. I mean that is a good third party Wii game and it would make a good new business for them to talk about on the podcast.

[Jonnyboy117]

The demo of MH3 turned me off any notion of buying it. However, Jon does own the game and discussed it on a couple of episodes back in the spring.

[greybrick]

The demo of MH3 turned me off any notion of buying it. However, Jon does own the game and discussed it on a couple of episodes back in the spring.

If you are at least interested in the idea monster hunter, I would try out Demon's Souls. A very well implemented multiplayer RPG with a similar structure to Monster Hunter, but minus most of the tedium.

[Kytim89]

The demo of MH3 turned me off any notion of buying it. However, Jon does own the game and discussed it on a couple of episodes back in the spring.

The actual game is a whole lot better. I suggest that you atleast rent it from your Gamefly account and then go online with me, Maxi and Mop It Up to get a good notion of the game. The game is not meant to be played single player, but multiplayer.

[ejamer]

Wow, this controversy is laughable.


I enjoy RFN and make a point of listening because it comes from a group of guys who (a) love gaming regardless of the console being gamed on, and (b) are able to form and express ideas in an intelligent way.  Keep up the great work guys, it's much appreciated.

[Jonnyboy117]

If you are at least interested in the idea monster hunter, I would try out Demon's Souls. A very well implemented multiplayer RPG with a similar structure to Monster Hunter, but minus most of the tedium.

I rented Demon's Souls. It made very little sense to me. I played the first level a few times, not really sure what I was supposed to be doing. Then I fought a boss that was a giant blob of goo surrounded by many smaller blobs of goo. Then I ran down a bridge and was killed by a dragon. In another level, I walked around a prison but a ghostly jailer one-hit killed me. Never did find the fun.

[broodwars]

If you are at least interested in the idea monster hunter, I would try out Demon's Souls. A very well implemented multiplayer RPG with a similar structure to Monster Hunter, but minus most of the tedium.

I rented Demon's Souls. It made very little sense to me. I played the first level a few times, not really sure what I was supposed to be doing. Then I fought a boss that was a giant blob of goo surrounded by many smaller blobs of goo. Then I ran down a bridge and was killed by a dragon. In another level, I walked around a prison but a ghostly jailer one-hit killed me. Never did find the fun.

The more I hear about Demon's Souls, the more convinced I am that the game's only actual notable quality is its absurd difficulty.  It's all reviewers and commenters talk about, and I'm long past the days (if those days ever existed at all) when I need a game to beat me into the ground to enjoy it.

[Sundoulos]

There is one thing that I was curious about in the interview.  It appears that Mommy's Best Games has had a fairly decent track record with his past games; I'm surprised that Grapple Buggy is having such a hard time trying to find a publisher.  I understand that it's a very competitive market right now for small game developers, but how much does it actually cost to publish a game on Xbox Live or Xbox Arcade?  I'm certain there are legal, licensing and hosting fees, but I guess I'm surprised that hosting a game in that way would be considered a risk, at least if it has a pedigree of game quality.

[Jonnyboy117]

Weapon of Choice, Shoot 1up, and Explosionade are all on the Indie games store, meaning they are self-published. Live Arcade requires certification, ESRB rating, and a lot of other things that make it difficult and expensive to self-publish on that service. I assume that's why Nathan is shopping Grapple Buggy to established publishers. It would also mean that he could get some funding up-front to finish development, rather than wait until the game is released and rely only on sales revenue.

[Jonnyboy117]

The actual game is a whole lot better. I suggest that you atleast rent it from your Gamefly account and then go online with me, Maxi and Mop It Up to get a good notion of the game. The game is not meant to be played single player, but multiplayer.

I'll do that. It would be fun to play with Jon and Billy, too.

[Kytim89]

 
 

The actual game is a whole lot better. I suggest that you atleast rent it from your Gamefly account and then go online with me, Maxi and Mop It Up to get a good notion of the game. The game is not meant to be played single player, but multiplayer.

I'll do that. It would be fun to play with Jon and Billy, too.

I remember reading some where that Monster Hunter 3 was the most successful third party Wii game of all time. It sold some where in the ball park of one or two million copies in Japan. It did farely well in the west, but it was recently revealed that this game had surpassed Brawl as the most played Wii game. This is important to note because it proves in some sense that third party games can be successful on the Wii.

[greybrick]

If you are at least interested in the idea monster hunter, I would try out Demon's Souls. A very well implemented multiplayer RPG with a similar structure to Monster Hunter, but minus most of the tedium.

I rented Demon's Souls. It made very little sense to me. I played the first level a few times, not really sure what I was supposed to be doing. Then I fought a boss that was a giant blob of goo surrounded by many smaller blobs of goo. Then I ran down a bridge and was killed by a dragon. In another level, I walked around a prison but a ghostly jailer one-hit killed me. Never did find the fun.

The more I hear about Demon's Souls, the more convinced I am that the game's only actual notable quality is its absurd difficulty.  It's all reviewers and commenters talk about, and I'm long past the days (if those days ever existed at all) when I need a game to beat me into the ground to enjoy it.

Since I started playing with a friend after beating the first level I haven't had a hard time with the game at all. Sure, some sections can be a bit tough, but the multiplayer system means that help is always just a few seconds away. The game is structured so that there is sufficient motivation to both bring someone into your game and also to join someone's game.

The game really isn't that hard, and that isn't me trying to sound like a snob, or "not knowing my own strength." In all honesty, if you play the game while taking advantage of the multiplayer, it is very enjoyable.

I like that there isn't the tedium of mining, fishing, or farming ala monster hunter. The combat feels much more fluid, and perhaps a bit more western.

[jrlibrarian]

I love this podcast, and will continue to promote it and support it as long as it lives. It already has surpassed Retronauts R.I.P. and 1UP Yours anyway.
 
I'm so glad that we finally got rid of Hylian Guard. Now our loving of Nintendo products (which happen to be gramatically correct) can continue in peace with one less troll.

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

There is one thing that I was curious about in the interview.  It appears that Mommy's Best Games has had a fairly decent track record with his past games; I'm surprised that Grapple Buggy is having such a hard time trying to find a publisher.  I understand that it's a very competitive market right now for small game developers, but how much does it actually cost to publish a game on Xbox Live or Xbox Arcade?  I'm certain there are legal, licensing and hosting fees, but I guess I'm surprised that hosting a game in that way would be considered a risk, at least if it has a pedigree of game quality.

Nature of the business, I suppose. When a publisher wants its hands on a game, a lot of the time, they will approach the developer, rather than the other way around. If the developer is pitching their game in an attempt to acquire a publisher, I would assume it's best to get in contact early in the process, so the publisher can give their input on what they would like ASAP.
Of course, there are certain costs involved. That's why in some ways, WiiWare is a better option because the cost of development is undoubtedly cheaper. I know the 40MB limit is a turn-off for some, but with smart resource allocation, you can still squeeze some impressive stuff in there - LostWinds 2 is, in my view, up there as one of the best looking Wii games.

[Stratos]

Did that Hylian guy get banned? Cause his name is gray.

It did farely well in the west, but it was recently revealed that this game had surpassed Brawl as the most played Wii game. This is important to note because it proves in some sense that third party games can be successful on the Wii.

I did hear that it had the best launch for a MH game in the West. But what is all this talk about Tri passing Brawl and such? What is your source? Link Plz.

[Kytim89]

Did that Hylian guy get banned? Cause his name is gray.

It did farely well in the west, but it was recently revealed that this game had surpassed Brawl as the most played Wii game. This is important to note because it proves in some sense that third party games can be successful on the Wii.

I did hear that it had the best launch for a MH game in the West. But what is all this talk about Tri passing Brawl and such? What is your source? Link Plz.

Sorry about not posting the source. Here it is:
 
http://kotaku.com/5656025/the-20-most+loved-wii-games-a-new-number-one

[adadad]

Wow, what a ridiculous argument that guy put forward. I very rarely get the opportunity nowadays to play anything other than PS1 and N64 games so for me the current consoles exist almost exclusively in my imagination and yet this is no way impairs my love for this podcast. And I would hope that most listeners respect and have interests across the whole of the gaming spectrum, including at least some areas that Nintendo does not make its primary focus. If RFN were to focus exclusively on Nintendo the sights of the podcast would be too narrow in my opinion, and the listeners and podcast crew alike would end up losing out on the benefits of a broad perspective. Nintendo fanatics who lose touch with alternative experiences on offer these days are the kinds of people who end up trying to defend individual friend codes for every game as "progressive" or "cutting edge", simply because they don't know any better.

This week's interview was really enjoyable, and well done because I thought you guys did a great job of keeping a conversation with a developer, exclusively (currently at least) developing for the 360,  rooted in a Nintendo context by using Super Metroid and other Nintendo game touchstones as examples.

And finally just to say that that was an impressive Retronauts send-off, Greg! I have to second the survival horror episode recommendation, that was one of the first Retronauts episodes I listened to and it cemented me as a podcast listener, which soon led me to discover this very show. Fantastic stuff - I remember listening to it in bed and gradually becoming more and more SCARED in my half-asleep state during the discussion of Eternal Darkness! I had to switch it off in the end I was such a wimp.

[Plugabugz]

I only do a subset of these things - feel free to guess which ones.

Given you star on and edit RFN, sleeping is out of the question.