Topic: What's Next For The N64 Expansion Pack?

[Khushrenada]

I'm already in my own family plan so can't help you there Khushrenada, but I'd be interested in playing these games with your group, if our schedules can match up.

Heh, that's fine. I wasn't looking for someone on the forums to join me. There was someone else I knew in life that would be interested and they joined up. So, that was taken care of some time ago.

I was going to bump this thread to talk about the sudden lack of titles being released for the app despite knowing 6 titles that were supposed to be added to it. And then Goldeneye is suddenly announced as being added this week. The one game a month schedule has suddenly become wonky the last few months. This seems to have happened as soon as I subscribed to it. Not sure what I did but I guess it must be my fault.

Super Mario 64 - I want to go back to my last post when I complained about the design for getting up to the balcony in the Boo House. I should have just played the worlds in order instead of jumping around as much as I did. Later, when playing Cool, Cool Mountain, I get some practice on wall jumps which I clearly needed for that section. I rescind my complaint about the level design. I just needed to brush off my SM64 skillz. All in all, I still like the game a lot and I enjoyed revisiting it after such a long absence. That's another game crossed off the N64 list.

Mario Party - Man, did they make it a long time to unlock everything. Glad they did away with having to buy the minigames so that you could then play them in the mini-game mode. Just been playing through it in single-player. I find I don't mind the single player like I once did. Just been starting a board and playing it for like 7 or 8 turns and then pausing and going off to other games but slowly chipping away at the game. Recently wrapped up a 20 turn round on Mario's Rainbow Castle. Got the happening star by being the only player to land on that type of space once during the whole match. What a brilliant play on my part. Still quite happy these games have come to the app. Can't wait for Mario Party 3 and two of the best characters, Waluigi and Daisy, to finally be playable options.

Yoshi's Story - It occurred to me when playing this that Yoshi's story was pretty much the only Nintendo property done in 2D during the N64 era. I suppose you could consider Super Smash Bros as 2D and Kirby 64 was 2.5D in that it played with the perspective more but Yoshi's Story was about the closest Nintendo came to the games that had been their main bread and butter through the SNES era. It's been a long time since revisiting this game and it is still a mixed bag of good and bad but I'm liking and appreciating it a bit more than my past memories of the game. Just been playing a couple levels at a time and chipping away at it that way also.

[Mop it up]

Yeah, I'm not sure what's going on with the schedule. Releasing both Mario Party 1 and 2 in November made up for the lack of a game in September to bring the average back to one a month, but then there wasn't one in December for some odd reason so I'm not sure what's going on. I wouldn't be surprised if they put out Pokémon Stadium 1 and 2 at the same time as well, maybe even this month for the Pokémon Day event. That would even it out again to one a month.

Tip for Mario Party: On the final turn, set all CPU players to humans and then you get to keep any coins and stars they collected at the end of the game.

[Stratos]

Well I had some extra eShop credit and saw you could upgrade your plan in-store now instead of calling so I went ahead and upgraded to the expansion pass family plan. I kinda wish I didn't play Goldeneye on it because it feels awful going back. The controls are nigh unplayable for me. I hear you can fix them through a few methods so I'll play around with them.

[Mop it up]

Aw phooey, there wasn't one in February either! I guess since they added the GBA section, they figured that was enough for the month. Seeing as they're adding a GBA game in early March, hopefully there will be an N64 release later this month.

[Khushrenada]

Aw phooey, there wasn't one in February either! I guess since they added the GBA section, they figured that was enough for the month. Seeing as they're adding a GBA game in early March, hopefully there will be an N64 release later this month.

I'm wondering if Nintendo realized they were soon going to run out of N64 releases on their end so they added the GB/GBA stuff to give them some games they can keep announcing to the online services rather than have it seem like the well had run dry on the service.

[NWR_insanolord]

They're not even running that low, there are games they've announced are coming to the service that aren't there yet, plus more in terms of first party releases that haven't come out yet.

[Mop it up]

Nope, nothing for March either! This is why Switch sales are tanking.

At least there will be one this month...

[Khushrenada]

Wooo-eee.

Banjo-Tooie hitting the app now. Just about coming to the end of the Rare contributions to the system. Including the Mature N64 app, that brings the total to 35 N64 games. Really seems like we'll hit 40 games for the app. Just how high might that number go? For everyone that was wanting an N64 mini back after the SNES mini-came out, I have to think this collection on N64 games basically covers what people would have wanted from that theoretical device. Obviously, there's still a lot of third party stuff people would probably like to see included and still a couple big titles missing like Diddy Kong Racing and Donkey Kong 64. But overall from the Nintendo/Rare side of things, pretty much all the big stuff here is and a bit extra.

So, let's look back at what's happened since this speculation started a couple years ago.

my personal picks are Donkey Kong 64 and Conker's Bad Fur Day.

Still waiting on both of those. At the time this thread started, CBFD seemed highly unlikely. Nintendo had not included any M rated games on any of the Console apps at this point and just didn't seem like they'd want to deal with the possible complaints of kids easily accessing an M-rated game through the app. But with the creation of the N64 Mature App, part of me felt like it was evidence that Conker may be on his way after all. Guess we'll see if that pans out but I'd say I've gone from thinking it was like a 0.1% chance to 75% now because of that.

If they're going to add more Rare games I would love to see Perfect Dark. On a different note, Harvest Moon 64, which I believe was on the Wii U Virtual Console, would be nice.

Insanolord gets his wish. Both games have hit the service

DK64 I expect pretty soon. It would probably be my choice as the next game after Pokemon Snap although maybe Banjo-Tooie could be that game if Nintendo wants to throw in another third party game before all their first party stuff is loaded up. Gotta think Tooie would be included if the first made it over.

Welp, I was way off. Still no DK64. I guess my desire to replay it is greater than most others. Banjo-Tooie finally fulfills the expectation of coming to the app since the first one did.

There are 21 games on the Wii U VC console. Only three of those games are third party: Harvest Moon 64, Bomberman 64 and Ogre Battle 64. If Nintendo does get a few Rare games like Banjo-Tooie, Blast Corps and Jet Force Gemini, then it will likely be able to just equal or surpass the Wii U VC.

All of those Rare games I mentioned are now going to be on the app. It has indeed surpassed the Wii U VC. Actually, both the Wii VC and the Wii U VC had 21 titles each that were made available but they didn't both have the same games due to different third party options. Harvest Moon 64 has made the jump leaving just three games that were available on the Wii U VC that haven't come to the Switch app. Bomberman 64, Ogre Battle 64 and Donkey Kong 64. Not so surprising about the third party games. Will they ever make the jump? But am surprised that DK64 has taken this long to be added. Harvest Moon beat it to the app!

The Wii U VC still has the following: Excitebike 64, 1080 Snowboarding, Wave Race 64, Donkey 64 and Mario Party 2. (Also Pokemon Snap but Nintendo showed that as a title coming to the 64 app). Of those games, I'd say DK64 and Mario Party 2 are the big titles Nintendo still have up their sleeve. I'm really curious how Nintendo will handle the Party games with Superstars for Switch. Will they just ignore those titles or will they re-release them with online play and possibly take away sales from Superstars?

On the subject of Mario Party games, let me just say that I'm glad Superstars didn't have an effect on these games getting added to the app. Added with online play for that matter too. Playing them again has really helped me understand why I like the GameCube Party games the best. The games can be a bit rough and being limited now to just 6 character choices in the first two right away takes away some appeal. The series was figuring itself out and in the GameCube era with orbs and capsules and some twists on how the boards worked, it makes for a more engaging experience. Still, I've been happy to revisit these titles and remind myself what they were like after not playing a couple of them for about two decades.

As for other third party games, I'd like to see Harvest Moon also but not sure it will happen. It's not like Harvest Moon SNES was added to the SNES app so if it wouldn't appear there, why would Natsume release it for the 64 app? Likewise Square has done nothing with the SNES app preferring to do their own re-releases so I doubt Ogre 64 is happening. Bomberman 64 might have a chance because who knows what Konami is thinking these days. However, like Harvest Moon, there have been no Bomberman games for the SNES app so why would they release some for 64?

I wonder if we might see a couple of the Cruis'N games show up. Can't imagine there is much demand for those old titles so whoever has the rights may be more willing to let those show up on the App.

Mischief Makers is a title I have some long shot hope for.  Are we going to be seeing Gex or Glover or Earthworm Jim 64 for the app?

Heh. Harvest Moon did make it to the SNES app after this and then we got Harvest Moon 64. So, I think the other apps are a bit of a key to tell what third party support may end up across them all. Will Bomberman show up on the SNES yet? Still think there's a chance we could see that series appear since Konami doesn't seem to care about bundling up old Bomberman games in some kind of a retail collection like Capcom might with Mega Man or Square with their franchises. Hence, I'm still pessimistic about Ogre Battle 64 getting a VC release. No idea if anything Cruis'n might appear. Meanwhile, Gex wants to go the Limited Games route instead of appearing on the app. We did see Iggy's Reckin' Balls and Extreme-G hit the app which were two third party games no one brought up and a sign we might see more of the weird third party offerings after all like have shown up on the SNES app. Earthworm Jim has appeared on SNES and Genesis app so maybe he also makes the leap to N64. However, Mischief Makers is the number one third party wish for me still. However, with the Square Enix connection to it, I'm pessimistic about its chances of appearing.

Also, it would be nice to get PilotWings 64, which for some reason was never on the Virtual Console on Wii or Wii U.

Another wish granted to Insanolord?! Come off it, Nintendo!

I would kill for Ogre Battle on Switch.

Well, if you're going to do that, may I suggest Insanolord? He's got all the games he wanted for the N64 app so he has no reason to keep living now. Nothing else to wait for and he didn't use one of his wishes for Ogre Battle ruining it for everyone else.

[Khushrenada]

Super Smash Bros-Owned
Perfect Dark-Not Owned
Jet Force Gemini-Not Owned
Turok 2-Owned
Beetle Adventure Racing-Not Owned
Excitebike 64-Owned
Ogre Battle 64-Not Owned
Pokemon Puzzle League-Owned
Vigilante 8-Owned
Rayman 2:The Great Escape-Not Owned
Fighting Force 64-Owned
Extreme G 1 and 2-Owned both
Bio F.R.E.A.K.S.- Not Owned
Rampage World Tour- Not Owned
Fighters Destiny-Owned
Mischief Makers-Not Owned
Dark Rift- Owned

I would like all the n64 wrestling games but I bet there are rights issues.  Same reason why I didn't list Golden Eye

Oh ho! A list. And there's been some progress on it. I also stand corrected. Extreme G had been mentioned by someone for their N64 suggestions. Of the 18 games mentioned, 5 have since made the leap. There's also GoldenEye but it wasn't technically on the list. Natsume Championship Wrestling has appeared on the SNES app. While still a long shot, maybe a wrestling game could appear for the N64 app after all. Of the other games listed, if Turok 1 could be released than Turok 2 should be able to make the leap. Same with Extreme G 2. Super Smash Bros is one of the last big Nintendo titles to hit the app. I wonder if adding online play might be a factor. Maybe that's what the whole Expansion Pass test that is going to happen will be about.  Already talked a bit about Mischief Makers and Ogre Battle in the last post. Just don't see Square supporting these apps. Considering how Ubisoft has kept re-releasing Rayman 2 so much over the years, I just don't see them choosing to have that game appear on this app when they may think they can resell it again down the road. Beetle Adventure Racing I also question mainly because of the licence with Volkswagon. Not sure what the negation would be like to bring that game to the app. As for everything else, well, I don't really have an opinion. They're pretty much unknown to me but that sort of obscurity could be in their favor in that third parties may feel that having such games on the app is the best value they'll get for those titles.

So just running down the list of stuff mentioned so far...

From the Wii / Wii U vc:

• 1080 Snowboarding Seems like a likely addition in winter.
• Bomberman 64 Requires Konami to wake up, so 50/50 I'd say.
• Bomberman Hero This never hit Wii U vc, but was on Wii. Lower odds than Bomberman 64 I'd say.
• Cruis'n USA Was on Wii. Nintendo recently remembered they own this, so barring rights for the car, sure?
• Donkey Kong 64 Very likely imo.
• Excitebike 64 Only wrinkle I could think of might be branded bikes/billboards.
• Harvest Moon 64 The Story of Seasons split could be an issue, but that was in 2012 and Harvest Moon 64 hit Wii U after that.
• Mario Party 2 The safest bet out of the 3.
• Pokémon Puzzle League Added in July.
• Pokémon Snap Added in June.
• Ogre Battle 64 Person of Lordly Caliber Square seems determined to forget about Ogre Battle/Tactics Ogre.
• Super Smash Bros. Was on Wii, not Wii U. Toss up. I lean "no" since Smash Ultimate starts with the 64 roster.
• Wave Race 64 Added in August.

As mentioned in my last post, both the Wii and the Wii U Virtual Consoles offered 21 N64 games for purchase but the line-up had some differences between the two. Of all the games listed above that still haven't come to the Switch, Ogre Battle 64 is the only game not to do so that was also available on both the Wii and Wii U for purchase. Does that mean it may be more likely to appear than other games listed here after all? Who can say at this point. Surprisingly Donkey Kong 64 wasn't available for the Wii. I guess that required Expansion Pak power was just too much for the Wii and needed the Wii U's computing power to make it available. Meanwhile Bomberman 64 was available on Wii U and not the Wii while Bomberman Hero was available for the Wii and not the Wii U. Again, Konami and what thought goes into releasing its past Bomberman games is a mystery.

If you combine the Wii and Wii U VC libraries, there were 25 unique games offered through them. That helps show how much more successful the Switch N64 app has been in comparison. Of those 25, 19 are available on Switch with the 6 listed above as yet to make the leap. DK64 is likely to show up at some point. I still think Smash Bros will too. Nintendo's history with Cruis'n makes me lean towards those games showing up to further add depth (or quantity) to the titles available on the app. It's the Konami and Square offerings that are in doubt.

Others Nintendo owns:

• Custom Robo Added in July (Japan only).
• Custom Robo v2 Added in July (Japan only).
• Dr. Mario 64 Already on the app.
• Hey You! Pikachu Would need a mic, so probably not. Creatures Inc. owns it now I think.
• Mario Party Probably not what with the glove + Superstars.
• Mario Party 3 Not sure why this one has been kept in the vault, anyone know?
• Pilotwings 64 has never been re-released, might be an issue with Paradigm?
• Pokémon Stadium Don't think so, but HAL made it so it'd be a choice, not a legal issue.
• Pokémon Stadium 2 Don't think so, but HAL made it so it'd be a choice, not a legal issue.

Big progress on the bottom half of the list with all those titles hitting. Hey You! Pikachu is now the lone exception and, as mentioned, the microphone requirement will likely keeps this from joining the app. (Unless Switch 2 has some kind of microphone addition to the controllers or special feature.) But also, I just don't think there is much demand for Hey You! Pikachu. Considering how Nintendo has just tossed some untranslated games into the NA apps, maybe Custom Robo ends up coming to NA as well but I feel some kind of translation would be pretty necessary for those games to know what's going on or how to play them.

I get the whole cost and question of whether it would be worth doing the translation on some of these games but I wish Nintendo would do it. I was playing the first Starfy game on the GBA app and, yeah, you can progress and sort of figure things out and I know the story isn't anything special since I played the Starfy DS game and expect it would be the same level as that yet it just makes the game feel so arbitrary and pointless in a way. It's like I'm playtesting a game or something and just trying out some rough build of it. If Nintendo plans to keep using these VC apps and back library going forward for a benefit of people playing for their online services then I wish they'd invest in doing the translation work for a few titles. Twenty years later, are they still going to just keep offering an untranslated Starfy game as new gamers get introduced to their back catalogue or as a way to keep their old titles available to be played? To me, doing some translation work on a few titles like Starfy or Mario's Super Picross will be of benefit to make them a bit more appealing into the future if they want to keep making them available for the North American audience.

Some baseless speculation on my part:

• Castlevania 64 if Konami wakes up.
• Castlevania Legacy of Darkness if Konami wakes up.
• Hybrid Heaven if Konami wakes up.
• Knife Edge: Nose Gunner this is made & owned by Kemco, who are still around.
• Mahjong 64 Was a Japan-only Koei game. Since Winback is here, why not at least in Japan?
• Mystical Ninja Goemon if Konami wakes up.
• Mystical Ninja Goemon 2 if Konami wakes up.
• Rakugakids if Konami wakes up.
• Rayman 2: Great Escape Ubisoft has re-released this like 10 times, what's an 11th?
• Tonic Trouble Seems less likely than Rayman 2, but maybe Ubi won't turn down a cheque.

No progress on the baseless hopes and dreams. Konami will release Castlevania collections of old games (unlike Bomberman) so they still see some value with those older titles hence why I'm doubtful that we'll see any of the N64 games. (The GB Castlevania game being an exception but a lot of companies don't seem to consider their GB games as having much value). Goemon, maybe. If Bomberman comes over then I think Goemon could but I think any of those titles could be a year or two away from appearing depending on how Nintendo wants to make these apps grow once they've finished with Rare and their own games on them and need third party offerings to bring up the number of titles. I'd be surprised about Rayman 2 and think something like Tonic Trouble has a better shot over it.

[Khushrenada]

I mean we did get Castlevania Bloodlines and Contra Hardcorp on the Genesis part of the Expansion Pack and those are from two collections Konami is already selling on the Switch.  Konami is willing to play ball with the extra money the Expansion Pack is offering so I wouldn't be surprised to see most of their N64 lineup shows up, which includes the Hudson games they own as well.

Ah. I never use the Genesis app. Didn't know there were a couple Castlevania games there. Welp, then that changes my thinking in the above post. We may see more Konami games in the future after all if the price is right for Nintendo and Konami. Right now, their stuff seems more likely than Square Enix and Battle Ogre based on this.

There's also the possibility of connecting the game with Pokémon Home, which seems like it'd be a lot of work that Game Freak wouldn't want to do.

Oh yeah! They did not want to do that.

If they wanted to get really ambitious they could add Game Boy games to the service and let you transfer Pokémon from those to Stadium.

Man, I just want a few translations done on some of the simpler games. You want some whole cross app game connection services done. Talk about ambition!

I'm betting Goldeneye 007 will release in 2022, since we haven't gotten a game yet this month, so there are four more slots left.

Not quite. January 2023 is when GoldenEye did come out. Just missed the 2022 expectation. The game a month schedule has long dropped off though. At this point, the app should be around 48 titles even with some leeway in the fact that it launched with like 13(?) titles. Only coming to 35 now. That said....

There is getting to be enough games I would want to play that I don't have physically that I could consider buying the expansion plan. But there is a time issue for me. Maybe once things settle down in life and I actually get to play Switch more consistently it would be worth it.

What are the feelings towards the N64 app compared to two years ago when it launched? Are people happy with its offerings? Has the amusement of revisiting older titles worn off? Still using it or don't think about it much anymore? Any titles not mentioned before that you still hope may grace it like Space Station Silicon Valley or Mickey's Speedway USA?

[Khushrenada]

Super Smash Bros-Owned
Perfect Dark-Not Owned
Jet Force Gemini-Not Owned
Turok 2-Owned
Beetle Adventure Racing-Not Owned
Excitebike 64-Owned
Ogre Battle 64-Not Owned
Pokemon Puzzle League-Owned
Vigilante 8-Owned
Rayman 2:The Great Escape-Not Owned
Fighting Force 64-Owned
Extreme G 1 and 2-Owned both
Bio F.R.E.A.K.S.- Not Owned
Rampage World Tour- Not Owned
Fighters Destiny-Owned
Mischief Makers-Not Owned
Dark Rift- Owned

I would like all the n64 wrestling games but I bet there are rights issues.  Same reason why I didn't list Golden Eye

Oh ho! A list. And there's been some progress on it. I also stand corrected. Extreme G had been mentioned by someone for their N64 suggestions. Of the 18 games mentioned, 5 have since made the leap. There's also GoldenEye but it wasn't technically on the list. Natsume Championship Wrestling has appeared on the SNES app. While still a long shot, maybe a wrestling game could appear for the N64 app after all. Of the other games listed, if Turok 1 could be released than Turok 2 should be able to make the leap. Same with Extreme G 2.

Whelp! I did not see Shadowman and Turok 2 as being next for the app but here we are! Just like that, there are now 37 N64 games through the normal and mature apps. With Turok 2, BShy gets another game off her list.

What's a bit more significant here is that Shadowman has a remaster available on Switch and is even on sale right now. Turok 2 has also been for sale on the eShop. Despite that, both original versions are now coming to the app. So, the idea that because a third party is selling a game on their own means it won't come to these apps is sort of ruined and shows that their addition could still be a possibility after all. But Shadowman before DK64? Why, Nintendo, why?