Topic: Official Virtual Console Mondays Thread

[Ceric]

Final Fight (SNES) GameStats
Mighty Bomb Jack (NES) GameStats
Ordyne (TG16) GameStats

I'm thinking about making a parser like do that but using a different technology then the other ones...
Ordyne looks interesting in its own way.

[darknight06]

C'mon now, I knew they were releasing SF2HF and SSF2 down the road eventually, that's why I didn't buy SF2WW when it was released.  I was tempted to but I didn't.  Same reason why I waited for Gradius 3 when Gradius 1 was released earlier (speaking of which I got the arcade Gradius 1 as well as Contra with the DS Konami Classics Collection, there's more than one way to get most of these games...).  I dunno, maybe I think of it this way because I see the virtual console as a small bonus rather than one of the big reasons to have the system.  

[Spak-Spang]

darknight:  That is fair...that I should have had fore thought in my purchasing...but Street Fighter was a huge release during the holidays and it seemed like an awesome buy.  And if Capcom would have done this with Hyper Fighting first, and then released Super Street Fighter 2, I wouldn't have a problem because I consider those games different.  4 new characters, Super moves, and new moves for many characters.  Super Street Fighter 2 is more like a sequel.  But World Warriors and Hyper Fighting are basically the same game...except you can play as the bosses, 2 characters at a time, and select different speeds for the game.

As such I am feeling sour grapes.  Though, I will admit Capcom could relieve those feelings if they gave me an option to either upgrade to hyper fighting via a Software update.  Or give me a discount for the newer version.

As it is, I now feel like I have to second guess my virtual console purchases.  Decide if I think a newer better version of the game will come out in the future.  

And as I said it isn't just Capcom which is guilty of this.  Nintendo has pulled this on us already with Wario's Woods.  Luckily I don't think there is too many other games Nintendo or 3rd parties can really do this type of thing to us.  

[darknight06]

Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo was the one with supers.  SSF2 never mattered much to me or many others and probably had the worst home ports of all of them, that's a large reason why if Hyper Fighting were to come out I would get that and not bother with SSF2.  EGM long time ago gave both the SNES and Genesis versions of that game 4s and for good reason.  It's like Capcom fell asleep at the wheel with them.  Hell, they even botched the arcade one the first time around and had to release a revision to it which ultimately didn't matter because once SSF2T came out everyone dropped SSF2 like a bad habit.

SF2WW and CE have more in common with each other than anything.  HF actually added moves and tweaked the balance to be the best of the original 3.  CE was WW with the 4 bosses playable and a couple minor alterations.

About Wario's Woods.  I did download that and then obtained the SNES version through other means and to be honest with you, outside of graphics they're the same game.  In fact I prefer the NES version's music, but that's just me.  

[Ian Sane]

I think the NES Wario's Woods got released instead of the SNES version because whoever made the call to release the game wasn't familiar with the SNES version.  Since almost all of the first VC NES games were titles that were available in Animal Crossing and/or as GBA games I figure someone just told whoever is in charge of the VC to just release those games first and they did.  The motive partially being to try to get people to rebuy games they just bought and partially to speed things up since it's possible that the same emulator was used for both and the recently released NES titles were already confirmed to be compatible.  Thus Wario's Woods get released within a blob of other titles with no one really paying attention.  Plus Wario's Woods isn't exactly a huge hit so there probably are several Nintendo employees who don't know much about it.  Retro games are often re-released haphazardly for a quick buck and dumb goof-ups that fans would never allow, like Mega Man buttons being reversed or random select not working in Mortal Kombat II, get through.

Nintendo is the company that has continued to release three-level Donkey Kong even though by the time the NES was released in North America they were well aware that the system could handle all four levels and could have fixed it for the NES release but didn't.  The "we don't really give a f*ck" train left the station a long time ago.  I guess it's really no different than the early days of film where classic movies were forever lost because those in charge at the time didn't treat their product with the respect later generations would.  Games aren't accepted as art by enough of the population yet so the companies involved are more likely to treat them purely as product and not take the extra step when appropriate.

[Luigi Dude]

Well if Nintendo had released the SNES version of Wario Woods first, then what reason would people have had to get the NES version when it came out?  It's the same reason Super Mario All-Stars will never be released until at least 2010.  Because if they were to release it right now, most people would download that game and not bother downloading all the NES Mario games seperately.

The whole point of the Virtual Console is for Nintendo and friends to make as much cheap and easy money as possible.  And in cases where you have and inferior and superior version, the inferior version will ALWAYS come first because they know there will be people that will buy it if it's out and will then buy the superior version when it comes out later.  This way companies get two sales because releasing the best version first would have only gotten them one.

It the same reason why most DVD movies are released first in a crappy 1 disc bare bones set, and then months later they release the big 4 disc box set with all the things people actually want to see.  Because movie studio's know people will buy the bare bones packet first and then buy the real deal later on.  

[Nemo]

I'm glad I got to pay $5 for Wario's Woods instead of $8. In a puzzle game, graphics aren't very important.

[Mikintosh]

And seriously, Nintendo's labeled everything. If you know there are better versions than Street Fighter II that came out for the SNES, and you buy the World Warrior anyway, be satisfied with that or go back in time and tell yourself to be patient. Same thing with Wario's Woods; it said NES right there.

It's hard for me to swallow the prices I'm seeing for the Sega and Capcom games since I bought the Xbox and PSP collections for $20-30, but I'll probably rebuy [the last] SF II when I finally get a Wii and it comes out because I really can't get enough karate in my life. I'd like to see the numbers on Alex Kidd though...oi.

The Donkey Kong thing is kind of inexcusable at this point; I still haven't played the 4th level yet since I've never experienced the full version. Ridiculous considering without that game, Nintendo would still be making Mickey Mouse cards.

[Spak-Spang]

Wario Wood's changes aren't just graphical by the way.

The Super Nintendo version gave Toad one extra move for the game (from what I have read) and the graphics being updated allowed for a larger playing field, and more room in the game for puzzles.  

But as I have admitted several times.  It was my mistake for not waiting...and I am not totally upset with my purchases, though I still am going to ask for Nintendo to do a better job of noticing which versions of game should be released and which should probably be held back.

[Ian Sane]

"Well if Nintendo had released the SNES version of Wario Woods first, then what reason would people have had to get the NES version when it came out?"

Well that suggests a meaner Nintendo.  I was trying to be civil and suggested a clueless Nintendo instead.

I wonder if Nintendo will release the SNES version though because they may fear it will confuse people.  Remember that Nintendo assumes we're all dumb and having two versions of the same game in different formats would probably be too difficult for us to handle in their minds.  I think they're more likely to only ever release one version of each game.  After all it's Capcom that's doing the Street Fighter II stuff.  Though what will they do about Super Street Fighter II Turbo?  It was never released on any of the VC systems.  At the time the only port was on the 3DO.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Well if Nintendo had released the SNES version of Wario Woods first, then what reason would people have had to get the NES version when it came out?"

Well that suggests a meaner Nintendo.  I was trying to be civil and suggested a clueless Nintendo instead.

I wonder if Nintendo will release the SNES version though because they may fear it will confuse people.  Remember that Nintendo assumes we're all dumb and having two versions of the same game in different formats would probably be too difficult for us to handle in their minds.  I think they're more likely to only ever release one version of each game.  After all it's Capcom that's doing the Street Fighter II stuff.  Though what will they do about Super Street Fighter II Turbo?  It was never released on any of the VC systems.  At the time the only port was on the 3DO.

I really don't think Nintendo thinks people are dumb, just look at the Pokemon games. If anything would be confusing it is how Nintendo works the pokemon series.

[Mikintosh]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Well if Nintendo had released the SNES version of Wario Woods first, then what reason would people have had to get the NES version when it came out?"

Well that suggests a meaner Nintendo.  I was trying to be civil and suggested a clueless Nintendo instead.

I wonder if Nintendo will release the SNES version though because they may fear it will confuse people.  Remember that Nintendo assumes we're all dumb and having two versions of the same game in different formats would probably be too difficult for us to handle in their minds.  I think they're more likely to only ever release one version of each game.  After all it's Capcom that's doing the Street Fighter II stuff.  Though what will they do about Super Street Fighter II Turbo?  It was never released on any of the VC systems.  At the time the only port was on the 3DO.

It's not going to show up, unless the 3DO people decide to throw in.

And how often does this happen anyway, the same game showing on two Nintendo systems? Pretty much only the peripheral Mario games, actually. There are cases, I'm sure, where there are competing SNES/Genesis ports, but who can blame them for giving their own system priority?

I don't see what's mean about that reasoning; it's good business. The only way we get the fun Nintendo games is if the company has money to make them, so what's the harm in releasing the inferior (but also cheaper) game first? The 15 Wario's Woods fans (including me) will either get the NES version now or be patient and wait for an SNES one. If some just goes blindly into the Wii Shop Channel and starts spending their money on things that they know so little about, then you can't expect Nintendo to hold their hand. They respect the discerning consumer.

[Spak-Spang]

Today:

Pac Man NES
Ninja Gaiden NES
Ninja Spirit T16

Not really a bad list.  Though I question releasing two Ninja games at the same time.  Why make people choose?

I know Gaiden has a large following and people will be very happy to see the available, and it will be the big download today...though honestly Ninja Spirit looks a little more interesting to me.  

Finally, Pac Man is nice, but I want Ms. Pac Man or Super Pac Man more than the original.

As it stands, I will save my money today.  I have 800 points left over, and I want to save it for a great SNES or Genesis game.  

Good 3rd party releases today overall.

[ShreddersDojo]

Who wants the nes Pac-Man?  If memory serves, that was a horrible edition.  I'd rather know when they are going to start releasing arcade games on the system.

[WuTangTurtle]

2 ninja games and neither of them are in the form of turtles!  I'm officially disappointed.

[Spak-Spang]

WutangTurtle:  Would you rather of had an all Ninja Monday update.

They could have released

Ninja Spirit,
Ninja Gaiden
Ninja Turtles The Arcade Game
and if they would have waited for awhile  Super Mystical Ninja.

Now, that would have been funny...then we could have gotten an all pirates update next monday.

[NeoThunder]

Quote
Originally posted by: ShreddersDojo
Who wants the nes Pac-Man?  If memory serves, that was a horrible edition.  I'd rather know when they are going to start releasing arcade games on the system.

hey wait, I was going to buy the NES version of Pac-Man......whats so bad about the NES version?

[Rhoq]

Instead of Pac-Man, we should have gotten Shinobi for the Genesis.

[ShreddersDojo]

I haven't played it in ages,  but I remember an extremely annoying screen setup, that if memory serves shifted instead of scrolled each time you went to a new area...

[Ian Sane]

"Who wants the nes Pac-Man?"

Who wants the NES Donkey Kong?  Namco wants Pac-Man on the VC and porting the NES version is the easiest and cheapest way to do it.  It sucks but unfortunately that the way things usually go with re-releases.  Though if you want an arcade version of Pac-Man it isn't hard to find it.  Get Namco Museum for the Cube and then you've got the arcade version playable on your Wii.

For the two ninja games at once thing I figure that since those are by two different companies on different consoles it's probably not intentional.  Or it is in that one company did this on purpose to try to steal sales from the other ninja title.  I don't think Nintendo dictates when third party games are released on the VC.

[cubist]

Ninja Gaiden was my favorite action platformer on the NES growing up.  The funny thing is...I haven't played the game in 17 years...and I still remember all of the timing and patterns to each level.  I almost beat the darn thing in one run through...freakin' awesome!!!

In my opinion, this is the best VC game to own outside of Punch Out!

[Spak-Spang]

Today's releases:

Donkey Kong Country 2
Streets of Rage 2
Blazing Lazers


This is a much stronger release lineup than last weeks, specially for diversity.  A Platformer, A Brawler, and a Shooter...you should be able to find something you like if you must download a game today.

As for me, its not quite what I was waiting for...and I have those 800 points just taunting me to download something.  Perhaps this is perfect time to let me finish some of the games I downloaded and haven't played through yet.  Namely Castlevania IV and Star Fox 64.

[batmaniswatching]

Did anybody out there download Pacman?  I love the Pac, but I can't play this thing at all.  The wiimote d-pad and the wavebird stick are both terrible options... I keep dying prematurely because neither will control anywhere close to a joystick.  
Are there any joystick peripherals that work for the wii that anyone has tried?  Or has anyone played this with the classic controller?

[Spak-Spang]

Batmaniswatching:  There is a reason the Classic Controller is created.  

Though I haven't downloaded the game at all.  Perhaps there will be an update to the game if people complain too much.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Classic controller sucks Wiggler-balls for anything made after the SNES era.