Zelda U confirmed, NX exclusive.

Do it, Nintendo. Push the series in to spaces it has never been before! Even if it stumbles, it will be worth it.

Personal attacks and accusations are not allowed on these forums, and are not relevant to this discussion.

I trust her rumors more than I trust yours.


(I also find her posts - all of them - much less offensive or ugly than what you just posted, which comes off as juvenile gamergate garbage. And that's putting it gently.)

Didn't Crimm threaten to permaban anyone saying immature shit like that?

EDIT: Yes he did!

Goddamnit you guys...

All of these rumors are things I agree with. So....I guess they must be true!  ;)

Emily Rogers has had good info in the past. She's written some awesome pieces. I mean, there are a lot of phonies out there. Who is going to listen this obvious faker no one has ever heard of?
http://i.imgur.com/7QVvtOT.jpg

Interesting!

Well I pretty much expected the dual release.  Since I already own a Wii U I'll probably stick with that version but then who knows what the NX will be like and thus what benefits the NX version will have.

Xenoblade X has voice acting with a silent protagonist and it doesn't seem that odd.  Dragon Quest VIII has the same thing.  It will work.

I've never really understood the big push for a female Link but I see him as a character more than a player avatar.  No one asks for female Mario or male Samus but I assume that's because they're clearly characters.  Now would anyone see Link as a player avatar if they didn't originally let you enter your name?  That is literally the only customization that suggests that the protagonist of the Legend of Zelda is supposed to be you.  You don't get to personalize the character's appearance in any way and the game never asks you to make decisions that affect the plot like other games with player avatars tend to do.  But if it's an option you can play it like you want so everyone will get the experience they want and that's a good thing.

Though all of these "details" are ones that fans have already brainstormed and discussed to death.  There isn't anything here that is out of left field.  It could all be true but it also could just be telling us what we've already set our expectations to and it seems believable because it's already familiar.

The writing was on the wall regarding Female Link once that guy hacked A Link to the Past so his daughter could play as a female avatar. Besides the fact that Nintendo doesn't want people hacking its games, getting more girls to play its games is exactly what Nintendo wants and has been trying to do consistently for the better part of two decades. Adding a female option in a series in which the protagonist's gender was only kind of addressed twice (e.g. Link's Awakening and Twilight Princess) and even then, it didn't matter. Midna's mild, third grade level flirting didn't affect the integrity of the game.

On a side note, it'd be awesome for Link to finally get a legit alternate costume in Super Smash Bros.

It's so interesting, because I've never really seen Link as a player avatar, even when I've inputted my name into the save file. Mostly because Link does things in the "story-based" Zelda games that give him character, and don't necessarily reflect my character. However, when I think about it, and when you hear Miyamoto's reasoning for the name, it does make sense. I wonder if this is going to mean the player has more options in building a character within the world via side-quests and dialogue choices, or that the experience is going to be more ambiguous, so the player can interpret it whatever way they want.

I'm anticipating this game more and more.

I knew that Linkle character in Hyrule Warriors Legends had to serve a larger purpose...

Pretty much this for me. ^_^

Link as an avatar representing the player has always been bs to me. I mean he is a blank slate but then not really. He has his own reactions to things, he apparently talks, you can't change his appearance and looks like no one but Peter Pan. He's his own character more or less. The idea that we could get a female Link so ladies can play as themselves is also bs for the same reasons. With that said I would love a female Link because I like the idea of more female leads in video games.

Playing as the opposite sex Link with the same body type won't change anything gameplay wise and I think thats fine. I've seen people argue that it ruins the integrity of the whole franchise or some other such nonsense but please, if the hero's spirit wants to inhabit a girl during one of the legends then so be it. Makes lots of other people happy, makes plenty of sense lore wise and anyone who doesn't want it doesn't have to do it.

Linkle was probably given the go ahead to test the reactions to players in a spin off that could probably handle the potential backlash that the main series wouldn't want to be associated with.

Linkle is tied with Waluigi for the worst name given to a Nintendo character.


EDIT
As for voice acting I say do it. Pikmin works just fine with it's alien language and subtitles but it's time Zelda catches up with the rest of the world. This big ol' super inviting(at first glance) open world, female option for playable character and voice acting would catch the eyes of the world again. Even if it's only superficial crap that doesn't change how we play, stuff like that changes the perception to outsiders who can't be bothered to read a book or just enjoy well done voice work in their games.


The motion controls in Skyward Sword to me are absolutely wonderful, it's a shame that that alone didn't catch on more than a controversial hot topic on forums. But thats not what the rest of the consumers will pay attention to anymore, they want punch, pizzaz, yahoo and wow. Zelda stopped being the most epic and grandest of all things with Wind Waker, then with Twilight Princess I figured thats all it was ever gonna be. Fake open worlds and no voice acting alone probably made Zelda look dated in comparison to other big budget titles out there. It's not nearly as revered as it once was.


It's a shallow response to what gamers are looking for but that doesn't make it wrong. Give us the gameplay we all know and love with some great new features and present it with some amazing production values. I think the perception of Zelda beyond Nintendo loyalists would really turn around with a female option, open world and voice acting. I say go for it. Throw a bird in there as well, I want to fly again.

The fact that Zelda Wii U/NX is open-world is the most eye-catching thing about it. Nintendo should market the game as a soft-reboot. Even if it doesn't disregard everything that came before, the series could use a fresh start.

I have a strange feeling that "voice acting" may actually mean every NPC gets King Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule-style gibberish talk.

I've been saying for years that Link hasn't been even remotely close to an avatar since A Link to the Past since he's been projecting a personality that isn't necessarily the player's. Even if players can't change Link's face, I think changing gender (and maybe clothes if Tri Force Heroes is anything to go by) would go a long way. At the same time, mild customization may backfire. There are, for example, a lot of non-white (or to make it broader non-light-skinned) players in the world. I'm all for a female option, but I can see the floodgates opening and this getting really messy for Nintendo.

1. Re: Zelda NX - I think we all have pretty much expected this to happen ever since the announcement that the game isn't releasing in 2015, if not sooner. As long as it still releases on Wii U, I'm fine with the decision, and it makes the most business sense to release on both systems. With the amount of money they're seemingly sinking into the game, it doesn't make much sense to release it only on Wii U where the sales potential is pretty low, but they also shouldn't make it NX-exclusive as a show of good faith to the people who bought a Wii U.

2. Male/Female option - Meh. This sort of already happened with Linkle in Hyrule Warriors (a very stupid character IMO), which is probably them testing the waters for a female Link, to see how it goes over and if it's something they should put into Zelda U. I'd rather they go the opposite direction and flesh out Link as a character than turn the protagonist into a blank slate type of character. I always prefer established characters to custom ones for various reasons, including that custom ones are almost always more boring and generic. That said, since I don't particularly care about story, I can't say I'd be bothered if it happened, just not what I'd prefer.

3. It makes sense they'd want to add voice acting to give the appearance of higher production values, but it isn't something I care about at all. As long as there is still the option for subtitles, I'd be fine either way.

Well it wouldn't be too surprising considering the Zelda series has a large female fanbase that Nintendo knows about and the fact the Zelda team has quite a few woman in important roles as well which Iwata even talked to in the Iwata Ask for Skyward Sword.

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/zelda-skyward-sword/6/0


Plus it's not like giving a female character option is going to sacrifice the story like some people think.  It's not that hard to change the dialogue to revolve around whether Link is a male or female.  Especially when the 2 most recent Fire Emblem games have been doing just that. 

I really dislike the name Linkle. It sounds like "tinkle". Also, I feel that the female Link should be his little sister, Aryll. But that is probably a personal bias since my sister chose that as her avatar name when we played games together.

I've heard a lot of people complain about having the option to be a lady hero. Just choose the dude hero and name him Link and play the game like you normally would. Pretend there's no choice.

Yeah some people aren't happy until others are angry.

If this game really does give you the option to play as a female, then it's probably more likely that you'll be playing as Zelda than as a female Link. There's always been undertones of romance about saving the princess, and Nintendo isn't going to allow suggestions of lesbianism in the Zelda franchise. "Zelda" is the titular character and the name is indisputably female, so it's not like her gender could be changed to male if you went with a female Link.

I am against having the option to play as a female Link because it will mean the end of all of the male-specific features that are the reasons I play the game, such as Link's traditionally deep and guttural voice, his large and muscular frame, his conspicuous genitalia and Ganondorf repeatedly yelling, "You are a male, link! A male with XY sex chromosomes and a penis and a self-identity that is completely and entirely consistent with those biological features. And it is those features that drive our underlying conflict and thus the story of this game, which is the primary reason that people play it!"


Female Link would just ruin this illusion for me because girls might have fun, and fuck that.

Hmmm... I never thought about it that way.

I don't trust any rumors that have not been confirmed by cats.

I don't like the implication that anyone who doesn't like the female Link option is a bigot or hater.  There should be room for nuance and differences of opinion.

As for me, I'm not sure how I feel.  It makes sense to have character selection, given the Western RPG inspiration Nintendo has hinted at.  It could make some sense if they began in a nursery or orphanage, with some magical entity deciding who to imbue the triforce of courage into.  You might even watch them play with others and see their personality, which could have gameplay consequences.

With that said, I wouldn't want Samus to be male.  Being female is part of her character, and having her suddenly be male to appeal to a larger demographic would feel wrong.  Similarly, I don't think female gamers need a female Link to relate to.  The idea is in itself insulting to female players.  As I have built an idea of who Samus is, I can see others feeling that bond with Link as a male and Zelda as a female.  They do have some balance in that way.

The main exciting thing, for me, is that they seem to be approaching the series in a new way, and that usually means more inspired and excited developers, which leads to better games.  The Zelda series needs that.

The Samus comparison puzzles me. She's not a player avatar. TLoZ's timeline has always been consistent in that you're not playing the same character over and over. In addition, Skyward Sword was the only game in the series where there's an explicit romantic link(heh) between Zelda and your avatar. Both characters can have the same bond regardless of their gender or biological sex.


Also: all the things you said are still possible because the choice between male or female is still optional.

Well said KeyBilly.

I think something that others have brought up is there's a question as to whether Link is a character or an avatar, and beyond that whether The Legend of Zelda is a defined story with characters, or a mythos ("Legend") with general archetypes.

Given that I personally connect the idea of The Legend of Zelda with the story of Shigeru Miyamoto poking around the country side looking for caves as a kid, I subscribe to the idea that Zelda is not really about the characters, it's about the adventure. To me the secret cave you stumble upon, the mysterious darkness you delve into, the bush you peek around to find a hidden space, that is what Zelda is. Someone has to discover it, sure, but that's just exposition and window dressing. The real Legend of Zelda lies in a sense of wonder and adventure.

Why would anyone be upset because you have different options in games? If you don't like an option, don't use it. Problem solved!


This is especially mystifying with Link. The character is intentionally a blank slate, and it's been pretty clearly indicated that the hero isn't the same character each time. I've played every game in the series, and haven't seen anything suggesting that hero needs to be male.

While I don't care, there is an argument to be made that time spent developing options that one won't use is time taken away from developing options that one would use.

Alternately, I would argue that making "Linkle" (or some such female Link) instead of developing Zelda as a strong, independent character who is more than a plot device to reach the end of the game would be nice - but, really, it"s not like playable characters in Zelda have ever gotten much development.

Yeah, the mere fact that we know that these are different Links should give the games all the flexibility they need on this point in my opinion, lore-wise at least.

One argument against "choice" I guess is that it probably moves things further away from a very distinctly described narrative built around the main character. I haven't played the latest Fire Emblem game, can anyone speak to how well it wove a detailed story when the gender of the main character was optional?

Of course, I personally believe that Zelda games need less hard-set plot and more adventure, so I don't really subscribe to a line of thinking that will turn The Legend of Zelda into Final Fantasy.

Although I guess one question is about whether the trinity of (male) Link, Zelda, and Ganon is either essential to the Legend of Zelda, or not. If the triforce NEEDS to be a trinity (let's not forget that the original triforce was split into EIGHT pieces, not three, or was this only the Triforce of Wisdom?), and that trinity NEEDS to be cemented in individuals, what are the REQUIRED traits of those individuals?

This calls to mind a time when the Triforce of Courage transferred itself to Zelda (it abandoned it's current corrupted owner and instead "chose" Zelda) at some point in the Valiant comics. Hmm...

Not really since the only change a female Link option requires is some dialogue changes that are very easy to implement.  It's not like there's anything that happens in Zelda games that would require a complete overhaul for the female option that would require a sacrifice to a certain aspect.  Plus since this is a new Zelda game with a new Link, it's pretty easy for Nintendo to make the story something that would work the same whether Link is male or female. 


Which shouldn't be hard since all the other Zelda games have pretty gender neutral storylines anyway as well.

This is my main issue with the gender choice, which factors into the immersive qualities of the title. See, if they explained the choice of the two playable characters as siblings within the narrative, I would be fine. But the more you place the character creation in the hands of the player, the more hands-off the narrative becomes. And listen, Zelda stories have never been incredible, but allowing the players some sense of immersion is important. It was one of the hardest things for me to get over in Xenoblade Chronicles X- within the scope of the main plotline, my character had little to no use in the story, and Elma and Lynn were the main characters.

One could argue that Link was a puppet to Navi or Midna, but he has a distinct personality in games like Wind Waker and Skyward Sword. But I would rather feel that my character is a direction connection to the game world, not something I impose upon the game world. It's really a game philosophy idea, which is kind of weird, but I'm not going to throw a big stink until I actually play the game, because I have been surprised before.

I'd argue the Cross avatar is the one doing most of the leg work (i.e. playing the game) which is an important, if thankless, task.

Not that far from how a lot of Links need to "prove themselves" for every Zelda.

But that's a horrible and selfish argument - especially when the option being discussed is appealing to a HUGE part of the target demographic. I still believe that guys play video games more often than girls... but it's not as huge a division as it once was and there are many guys who might choose to use a female protagonist anyway for all sorts of reasons.


(I know you aren't advocating the argument, just bringing it up.)


If it was prohibitively expensive (ie: developer time and effort) to add a choice of protagonist, or if doing so required the entire story to be rewritten, then maybe it wouldn't be a good idea.  I doubt that's the case, based on my experience with every Zelda game released on Nintendo consoles.

Under typical circumstances if you took moved in a direction where the main character was more of a blank slate for the player you would lose a lot of potential for character development within the story.  But this is Zelda and I fully expect it to have a very basic and kind of dull story (but with at least one or two details that completely screw up timeline discussion) so we're not losing much, if anything at all.  This can work simply because if Miyamoto is involved the story is usually a half-assed afterthought.  Link's character isn't much beyond being a really brave and heroic person.  And then with that new-hero-each-time thing the Zelda series is unique in this being able to work without it contradicting all the story beforehand.

But I got to feel sorry for Zelda herself.  She's been waiting 20 years for a non-CDi starring role and Nintendo goes and makes a female Link instead?  I figure that if the gender option is actually happening that we're not getting playable Zelda at any point as Nintendo would probably see it as pointless with a female player option already available.

I don't feel as if the option of choice takes away from the character development(as if there's a ton of that in Zelda games). I expect a female Link to make the same dumb, goofy expressions and reactions to story elements that a male Link would make.

Fire Emblem pulls it off fairly well for what it is. In Japan, Awakening had several story points where the dialogue changed if you were a guy or a girl, but they reduced them down to one script in the English version. It does add a few interesting points depending on who you are and what you chose (a person who tries to kill you for a greater good could be your daughter OR your wife, and the dialogue changes accordingly).

Considering how much lighter the story is in LoZ I don't see anything being a problem with a M/F option for Link.

Admittedly, it would be cool to finally answer the question "What if Zelda was a girl?"
...I regret nothing.

If written properly or with the right amount of effort allocated, games have a potential to handle this idea with ease. However, there is the potential (as with Xenoblade Chronicles, I hate to cite the same title but it's currently the only reference I can think of, in terms of Nintendo-related products) for gender-ambiguous characters to be referenced less, or to have odd connotations. Would Zelda's dialogue with Link at the start of Skyward Sword have as much tension if she were talking to a female? She says she wants to ask him something, but is cut off- this moment would have a completely different connotation if the protagonist had a different gender, and that's a pretty awesome thing- if the risk to keep that sort of dialogue remains.

People argue that Zelda doesn't need to emphasize its story, or that it isn't necessary for the franchise, but I disagree. Games have to play a delicate balance with the AMOUNT of dialogue, because there can be lore-, narrative-, and/or flavor-based text. There's plenty of action-adventure titles, like Assassin's Creed, which do next-to-nothing in regards to their flavor-based text, but heap narrative-based text on the player. Zelda doesn't utilize nearly as much narrative text, but it does have a bit of flavor- and minimal lore-based text. Flavor text is what causes the most immersion- how characters react to you based on the things you do- and depending on the world the game is set in, there could be neutral reactions to a male or female doing something, or there can be the exact opposite sort of reaction. However, when characters within a game react in a neutral way to a player and then in the opposite way towards each other, it creates a disconnect that separates the player from the game world. The item-check character from Skyward Sword wouldn't be as endearing as she is if she didn't have the bizarre relationship she does with Link by the end of the game.

With Zelda, the tone of the series is more whimsical, and I would want it to stay that way. However, when the innocence and simplicity of its text is muddled with neutrality, I worry the overall experience would be quite bland. Once more, Xenoblade Chronicles X is an engaging world with interesting lore, but its flavor text and the way characters regard you is neutral because they have to give limited choice to response and encompass two genders. Zelda isn't particularly fascinating, locale-wise- it's an uncharted world filled with dangers, but they rarely boggle the mind like XCX's vistas, and you won't see any giant robots running rampant (or maybe you will, judging by the initial teaser). Thus, it's charm needs to be created by the characters and their whimsy, not by the world or the plot, which will likely involve a titular character and her rescue.

Some people say they don't play for the story, but if you're playing instead for the puzzles or combat specifically, I can't really comprehend. Text is meant to enhance an experience, and while some might argue its inclusion in the Zelda franchise, it has had mixed results that have helped and hurt the pacing and immersion of the game. I don't know how else to say this. I'm not going to decry the game if its narrative is less-complex than Skyward Sword or Twilight Princess, but I would like characters to approach and respect me based on my selection of gender. The easy way to handle this is neutrality- I'd like to see Nintendo rise to the occasion, instead.

If this game is a thematic return to the very first Zelda... well, there wouldn't be much need for characters to interact with Link in anything deeper than saying "Hey, you broke down my door, I'm going to charge you 200 rupees for repairs" or "It's dangerous outside, take this" or "It's a secret to everybody" or "grumble grumble".

There are really only two games in the series that really actually

That is not entirely true. Link's Awakening had a slightly more established portrayal of Link then other games in the series. Also, let me remind you that the Hero's Shade in Twilight Princess is a past incarnation of Link.

Wow....this is the stupidest fucking thing I've heard all month.

i think there's an easy solution in having a few special characters that would interact with a different gender. Kind of like how there's a couple exclusive Pokémon to each pair of games.
I never saw Link and Zelda as romantic. Even in Skyward Sword. That love is platonic, yo. And really there can't be anything there because that would totes lead to incest somewhere down the line...

I'm sorry you feel that way. I know I got a bit wordy in my post, but don't get me wrong- I think having choice of gender is not a bad thing by any means. i just hope that it doesn't hurt the narrative, even if that narrative has a minor inclusion.

One Gameboy color game and an NPC (who still didn't have a real personality, let alone a gender-specific one) aren't the best examples.

I agree with just about everything you said, but this part in particular was something I had trouble putting into words. Well-spoken, mate.

Not your post. The female Zelda. I thought Linkle was stupid enough.

As each year passes, I become less and less a fan of Nintendo. I honestly feel Nintendo is closer to becoming a third party developer than what any of us realize, even Nintendo, themselves. If it is true that one can play as a female Link, I will not buy the game, and I may just completely quit playing on Nintendo consoles.  No one wants a male Samus, or a female Mario, ect,ect.


All Nintendo does anymore is alienate its fans, make stupid gimmicky aspects to their consoles, that no one wants. Nintendo has no clue, period.

You cleary don't go out on Halloween night...

Why does the option to play a character as a different gender make you feel alienated?

If people are interested in gender options, it's great that they get it, but I'm personally more interested in a Link character that is totally androgynous. I kind of thought it was heading in that direction. In most games the character is a child who's gender is not only unimportant, but difficult to distinguish, and in the games where the character is older, he's somewhat effeminate. I was kind of hoping in this game they'd take that a step further and just never imply a gender one way or the other. Still, a gender option is a step in the right direction for helping more gamers feel included, and not just female ones.

I think the real controversy we're missing here is the voice acting. Honestly, if it wasn't for text in video games, I may not have learned how to read. I think voice acting is losing something in the same way an audiobook isn't quite as stimulating for brain growth as an actual novel. I admired Nintendo for holding out on that, but perhaps this is progress. I'll just have to keep playing my Super Nintendo if I want to read a video game.

I don't mind if Link is female or male or if that makes it Prince Zelda instead of Princess. I'm more interested in the adventure and the puzzles. That's the game after all. And while Link's a nicely designed character, he has no personality other than his "HYAA" "HUH" and "WHAAA". I'm interested to hear the female version of those grunts.

And for those who care about gender, you realize Link is an elf right? For all you know Link is already a female and it's completely rational to think that Saria is a dude.

I can't figure out why everyone assumes that the characters in the Zelda universe are bound by the real world's standard gender structure. I can't use magic potions. I don't randomly find giant green crystals when I mow the grass. When I get sick or injured, I don't get better by picking up red heart-shaped blobs., I've never seen a game at the county fair where you get prizes for throwing powerful explosives into jars. So why do we assume that Hylians have normal genitals, or have genitals at all?

The fact that some dudes can't deal with the possibility of an optional female protagonist in a game that heavily features a species of characters that eats fucking rocks just goes to show what a bunch of sheltered, juvenile shitheels some gamers are. Here's a tip: if this story really gets your goat, you need to go the fuck outside and talk to actual people about actual things. Now.