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3DS

New Zelda Game Heading to 3DS

by Patrick Barnett - November 5, 2011, 7:25 pm EDT
Total comments: 62 Source: (MyGames), http://ez.mygames.pt/wii/accao/the-legend-of-zelda...

Aonuma explains what is next for the series.

In a recent interview with the Portuguese website MyGames, Eiji Aonuma revealed that a brand new Legend of Zelda game is being developed for the Nintendo 3DS.

While discussing The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, Aonuma explained "we are now preparing a new game, a game in the series for the Nintendo 3DS". Aonuma went on to say that the game is not a direct sequel to the previous Zelda titles, but that it is going to feature a lot of what has already been done on previous consoles.

Aonuma also told the site that he has talked to Miyamoto about remaking The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask. He revealed that the idea was seriously considered, but they did not want to release a remake directly after another remake.

Talkback

MataataNovember 05, 2011

I can understand the remake-after-a-remake thing. I wonder what this "Zelda 3DS" will be like? Must not be very far in development.

Chocobo_RiderNovember 06, 2011

I have yet to get tired of a Zelda game, new ones or previous entries.

There are only 2 things I hope Nintendo implements going forward:

1. Full voice acting, INCLUDING LINK.  I know, I know, it's never gonna happen.  Samus opened her mouth and the bowels of hell shook with rage.

2. The series starts owning up to what it really is... a few clusters of connected titles in an otherwise disconnected series.  This prequel after prequel thing is unnecessary and will eventually result in some kind of cave-man Link flying on a dinosaur ...

hmmm
http://www.oocities.org/mari_chann/Chrono/pics/terra1.jpg

SilverQuilavaNovember 06, 2011

I hope they make another game kinda like Windwaker, but with enhanced gameplay and better graphics of course. Like with the Brawl detailed Toon Link.

Xero!November 06, 2011

(I made an error with the earlier post, see below for how it was intended to be posted)

Xero!November 06, 2011

Quote from: NinSage

I have yet to get tired of a Zelda game, new ones or previous entries.

There are only 2 things I hope Nintendo implements going forward:

1. Full voice acting, INCLUDING LINK.  I know, I know, it's never gonna happen.  Samus opened her mouth and the bowels of hell shook with rage.

You know... I'm getting tired of how much human beings (ESPECIALLY gamers) hate change. It's pathetic. Samus talks and everyone hates on a great game. What's worse, many people don't know this but Charles Martinet gave a 'tour' of the 3DS features as Mario. In other words, it was a 3 to 4 minute video of Mario saying MUCH more than just Yahoo and Here we go. The acting on the video was quite good in my opinion. It was definitely no Megaman 8 that's for sure. Thankfully the majority of the comments I read liked it but there were persons who said they never wanted to hear it again and blah blah blah as if it was the worst thing they had ever heard. If Nintendo wants to start implementing voice acting for their top stars, there is NOTHING wrong with that. Embrace change, ppl!

GoldenPhoenixNovember 06, 2011

Quote from: NinSage

I have yet to get tired of a Zelda game, new ones or previous entries.

There are only 2 things I hope Nintendo implements going forward:

1. Full voice acting, INCLUDING LINK.  I know, I know, it's never gonna happen.  Samus opened her mouth and the bowels of hell shook with rage.

2. The series starts owning up to what it really is... a few clusters of connected titles in an otherwise disconnected series.  This prequel after prequel thing is unnecessary and will eventually result in some kind of cave-man Link flying on a dinosaur ...

hmmm
http://www.oocities.org/mari_chann/Chrono/pics/terra1.jpg

Also with the voice acting, the 3DS carts are limited in memory, so it may not be possible for a full blown Zelda game to include voice to any degree. Most Zelda games have been sequels as well, not prequels, the only emphasized prequels were OOT and now Skyward Sword. I'm not sure you can go back much farther then the Master Sword.

AdrockNovember 06, 2011

Metal Gear Solid had full voice acting back in 1998 and it shipped on 2 CDs (remember those?) which was about 1GB if storage. Its remakes, Twin Snakes, shipped on 2 GameCube optical discs which was like 3GB and right now the largest 3DS card is Resident Evil Revelations clocking in at 4GB and the game probably has full voice acting as well. I believe 3DS can handle up to an 8GB card, not that many or any games on the platform will ever needs that much. Point being, Nintendo absolutely can include full voice acting in Zelda even on 3DS; they will just likely continue to choose not to. At the same time, Miyamoto relented on including an orchestral soundtrack so you never know what his team might be able to push for next time.

Really not a surprise to anybody, but good to hear it confirmed nonetheless.

GoldenPhoenixNovember 06, 2011

I am still not sure why anyone wants voice acting in a Nintendo game, every instance they have it has been average to subpar. Terrible voice acting can take you out of an experience really quick, or at the very least turn what should be a serious game into a joke. Nintendo would need to demonstrate to me they can handle serious voice acting before I want them to even hint at putting it in a series like Zelda that doesn't come around every day.

CericNovember 06, 2011

Frankly, I rather just read the text most of the time.  I find extensive voice acting not to really ever enhance a game.  A lot of that I normally have to read the subtitles anyway.

AdrockNovember 06, 2011

Quote from: GoldenPhoenix

I am still not sure why anyone wants voice acting in a Nintendo game, every instance they have it has been average to subpar. Terrible voice acting can take you out of an experience really quick, or at the very least turn what should be a serious game into a joke. Nintendo would need to demonstrate to me they can handle serious voice acting before I want them to even hint at putting it in a series like Zelda that doesn't come around every day.

How can they demonstrate that they can handle serious voice acting if they don't use voice acting in more of their games?

Eternal Darkness had excellent voice acting if you count that. Metroid Prime 3 was above average though nothing spectacular. Voice acting isn't difficult to get right. Hire better people, spend a bit more money. Having someone from Nintendo of America phone in some lines (specifically referencing Leslie Swan as Princess Preach here), isn't going to cut it.

I advocate the use of voice acting in video games because I don't like reading during cutscenes. If I'm going to be inconvenienced with long movies when I should be playing, I'd rather they go the extra mile and make the cutscenes as engrossing as possible. Reading subtitles pulls me out of the experience just as much as shitty acting because i'm only half-paying attention to the action. This is worse when in a videogame because in addition having to read text, I'm already bothered by the fact that I'm not playing the game. If I wanted to read, I'd pick up a book, not a videogame.

NintendoFanboyNovember 06, 2011

Yea, voice acting, in Other M i didnt think was bad, they made a bad ass bounty
hunter a frightened little girl.
as for Zelda, games, like generally doesnt have dialog does he?
so do it half life style, gorgen doesnt talk, and the cut scenes u have player bmovement in.
In half like u can wqalk away from the story cut scene if u like, awesome.
Now to finish OoT and replay Twilight princess before skyward sword come out.

broodwarsNovember 06, 2011

To be fair, various incarnations of Nintendo have either farmed out really good dubs or done them themselves at some point in the last 10 years.  I'm currently playing Xenoblade right now, and so far Nintendo of Europe seems to have turned out a very good English dub.  Baten Kaitos Origins had a great dub, and Nintendo of America farmed that one out to people who knew what they were doing.  As already mentioned, Eternal Darkness had great voice acting as well.

If Nintendo is so woefully inept and lazy that they couldn't manage to craft a good dub, they merely need to outsource the dub to someone who can.  There are at least half a dozen English dubbing studios around the world (if not more) that are more than capable of performing that task well.  But having an iconic character voiced by someone not owned by Nintendo means relinquishing just a bit of control over an IP and paying the actor what the performance is worth, and Nintendo stubbornly won't do that.

SupaKirbNovember 06, 2011

I feel like a majority of these comments are expressing that they actually WANT voice acting in Zelda. I really thought there was a bit more skepticism in that area of Nintendo games, especially Zelda. I guess I'm wrong though..

But regarding the voice acting, here's what's wrong with that, (not everyone's opinion, but the idea itself) people are going to bitch. Whether you like it or not, you know this to be true. Don't forget about Other M.

Now, where do I stand on voice acting in one of Nintendo's most iconic series? Well allow me let you down softly. I personally, do NOT want Link to be voiced by anyone. Not even someone that was handpicked by Miyamoto-san himself.

Now, before any of you reply in rage, please let me explain myself. I genuinely feel like there is so much mystery to the character that is Link, and that the mystery is a good thing. And I never want that taken away, nor do I want someone to say, "Hey, here's who link is, here's what WE say he should sound like, and any particular view or characterization you might of had of him, is irrelevant now."

I don't know about you, but I would politely tell that person to F' off. As gamers, I feel we are entitled to our own artistic license. In other words, we should be able to imagine something in the way WE want to, not the way we are instructed to. Don't tell me how Link "should" sounds like, because he's never not had a voice to me.

Now as far as the world Link explores, and the people he interacts with. I am not against that. Some people might use the same argument I expressed above for the supporting cast of Zelda, but for me personally, I wouldn't mind those people being voiced. It would solve one problem discussed above "reading while cut-scenes are happening." You wouldn't have to worry about that anymore. Because A. Those people would have voice acting, and B. Link wouldn't be talking anyways.

That is one option I see as a possible win for both sides. Anything else seems unfair, and an insult to us as fans. "You're not smart enough to imagine the character of Link, so hey! We'll do it for you!"

Don't want to be a kill joy, but no thank you.

They wouldn't have to give a voice to Link, because he pretty much never speaks in the game now anyway; it's all NPCs doing the talking.

DanielMDaniel Mousseau, Staff AlumnusNovember 06, 2011

To me, I don't think they made Samus sound like a whining girl. Adding voice over gave Samus emotion, up until then, all Samus was is a super soldier, but in other m, she was given a voice. A voice that made her a person and not just just robot like thing that all she did was take orders and didn't care what happened. I hope the next Metroid game has voice acting as well. I'm a huge Metroid fan and other m was by far the best one.

Bman87301November 06, 2011

Personally, I think all of you people pushing for fully voice-acted dialog don't know what you want until you get it and don't like it. I frankly applaud Nintendo for sticking to their guns and not giving in to the pressure. Let's not forget that Zelda games have toyed with it in the past and the public was overwhelmingly unhappy with the results-- Hey! Look! Watch out! Listen!

Granted, just because Navi's voice in OoT didn't work out doesn't mean it necessarily couldn't have ever worked if done right... But it does prove how bad it can be when it's done wrong.

As tempting as the idea of voice acting will always be, the previous installments have clearly demonstrated it's not needed... Besides, too much time has passed and tradition for modern Zelda games has already been set-- There may have been a point when it could have been done and worked, but that time has passed. If they started adding it now, it would messing with the established Zelda formula and would take away from that "Zelda feel", instead feeling like just a generic run-of-the-mill adventure game.

You people can complain all you want, it's not going to make you right. Nintendo IS doing the right thing by excluding it.

None of those are good reasons not to do it. As has been pointed out in this thread, Nintendo-published games have done voice acting very well, and I doubt they'd skimp on something as big as Zelda. Also, sticking too closely to tradition is, in my opinion, a really bad move. The series needs to keep moving forward.

CericNovember 06, 2011

IF I'm watching an FMV then yes I want it voice acted.  Why, because I'm watching a movie that happens in a game.  When I'm running around the game do I want people talking to me?  No, I don't.

Bioware does this with there games and frankly it gets to me because 95% of the time I'm either annoyed its so slow or I've already read the text and moved on before the voice acting is done.

Its also an immersion thing as well.  Selecting choices for text that I'm reading, feels naturally.  Talking to people who voice responses and I don't feels like I'm a mute and really takes me out of the experience. 

The moment I can start talking to the NPC's using my Voice is the moment I want them all to have voices.

Mop it upNovember 06, 2011

I thought they said something similar the last time they mentioned a possible remake of Majora's Mask, but I forget. Too bad they didn't apply the remake policy to the GBA...

As far as this spontaneous discussion about voice acting, I've never been a fan of it. I don't mind it if it exists as long as it isn't bad, it just doesn't add anything for me. In the case of Zelda, I have an active imagination, so I like to come up with my own voices for the characters. Having them all be voiced would ruin some of the charm for me.

AdrockNovember 06, 2011

Quote from: Bman87301

Besides, too much time has passed and tradition for modern Zelda games has already been set-- There may have been a point when it could have been done and worked, but that time has passed. If they started adding it now, it would messing with the established Zelda formula and would take away from that "Zelda feel", instead feeling like just a generic run-of-the-mill adventure game.

What Zelda tradition? In the past 10 years, the series has seen motion controls, stylus controls, multiplayer where you could only carry ONE item, infinite sailing, a magic railroad track and an orchestral soundtrack. Oh, and Link is now right handed. Nintendo just does whatever the hell they want with the series. It evolves with each new game and that's the way it should be.

Mop it upNovember 06, 2011

I've always thought Link is ambidextrous, since in some games like Ocarina of Time he uses certain tools like the Hookshot with his right hand. So maybe he just decided to start holding his sword in his right hand to fit in with everyone else.

AdrockNovember 06, 2011

I thought Link uses the hookshot with his right hand because he holds the sword in his left so when locked onto an enemy, he puts his sword away at the same time as he pulls out the hookshot.

On second thought, I'm not entirely sure. He also holds his shield up. I could check this with OoT 3D but I'm far too lazy. I thought he was officially left-handed until they had to mirror Twilight Princess for the Wii.

Xero!November 06, 2011

Quote from: Adrock

Quote from: Bman87301

Oh, and Link is now right handed.

Link is NOT right handed. The tradition of Link was that every incarnation of Link is left handed. Yes I said every incarnation. There are multiple Links. Now unfortunately that tradition was officially broken with Skyward Sword (no left hand mode). So yeah, one COULD say that he is left handed now...

Bman87301November 06, 2011

Quote from: Mop

I've always thought Link is ambidextrous, since in some games like Ocarina of Time he uses certain tools like the Hookshot with his right hand. So maybe he just decided to start holding his sword in his right hand to fit in with everyone else.

Nope. In OoT, Link would just put away the sword and still used his left hand for the Hookshot and all other items.

All Links prior to Skyward Sword are officially lefties. Of course, in the mirror reversals (the Wii version of Twilight Princess, the Master Quest of Ocarina of Time 3D) they appear to be using their right hands since everything is swapped, but they're not considered canon. Skyward Sword is the first Zelda to feature a right-handed Link.

Mop it upNovember 06, 2011

Quote from: Bman87301

Quote from: Mop

I've always thought Link is ambidextrous, since in some games like Ocarina of Time he uses certain tools like the Hookshot with his right hand. So maybe he just decided to start holding his sword in his right hand to fit in with everyone else.

Nope. In OoT, Link would just put away the sword and still used his left hand for the Hookshot and all other items.

He clearly uses his right hand. If you don't believe me, go watch any YouTube video of the game labeled with "hookshot" and you'll see.

Bman87301November 06, 2011

Quote from: Xero!

Link is NOT right handed. The tradition of Link was that every incarnation of Link is left handed. Yes I said every incarnation. There are multiple Links. Now unfortunately that tradition was officially broken with Skyward Sword (no left hand mode). So yeah, one COULD say that he is left handed now...

Well, since the Skyward Sword incarnation is right-handed, obviously not EVERY Link is left-handed.

P.S. -- Adrock was the one who made that statement, not me.

Bman87301November 06, 2011

Quote from: Mop

He clearly uses his right hand. If you don't believe me, go watch any YouTube video of the game labeled with "hookshot" and you'll see.

I stand corrected-- he does use his right for the Hookshot. Of course, people commonly use their non-dominant hand for simpler things like aiming. Link still uses his left for swinging his sword and when throwing Deku Nuts and his boomerang, so he's definitely still left-handed.

AdrockNovember 06, 2011

Quote from: Xero!

Link is NOT right handed. The tradition of Link was that every incarnation of Link is left handed. Yes I said every incarnation. There are multiple Links. Now unfortunately that tradition was officially broken with Skyward Sword (no left hand mode). So yeah, one COULD say that he is left handed now...

What? You're attempting to correct me by repeating what I said. Link is officially right handed in Skyward Sword (and there's no confusion with a mirrored version either). That's why I said he's now right-handed so there goes that "tradition." Nintendo has changed and will continue to change the series to suit their needs.

Link is technically a different person in almost every iteration of the game, so I don't see how it's that contradictory for this one to use his right hand. Also, he's the fucking hero of time, why the hell shouldn't he be ambidextrous? He just uses the sword in his left hand because he can and it looks cool and is somewhat unique compared to everybody else (Hipster Link).

ThanerosNovember 06, 2011

A fully voiced Link....eww..

While it was ok for Samus because she has been having her own dialog since Super Metroid, Link(or Links) is/are different. What people keep forgeting is Link IS YOU and is nothing more than an avatar.

StogiNovember 06, 2011

As much as I like hearing this, I wouldn't consider this news since no one in their right minds would bet a dollar that Zelda wasn't coming to the 3DS again even if it was against a million. The news in this story that is actually worthy is the fact that they seriously considered remaking Majora's Mask but only decided not to bring it back because of the release of OOT 3D.

I for one would buy a remade Majora's Mask. It could greatly improve by having a second screen. There are so many times you have to switch masks, access your log, and swap items that it would be way more useful than it ever was for OOT. Now add updated graphics, 3D, and gyroscopic camera and you have one hell of a game.

AdrockNovember 06, 2011

Quote from: Thaneros

What people keep forgeting is Link IS YOU and is nothing more than an avatar.

Link used to be an avatar that represented the player when Link was a clean slate, a shell that the player could step into and project his/her feelings onto. Once Nintendo started adding characterization to Link (as minimal as it is), he stopped being the player and started being a character that projected his feelings to the player. This started when Nintendo added cutscenes showing Link being shocked or angry or happy. Those aren't my emotions. I'm watching Link react to the world and characters around him.

If Nintendo really wants Link to represent the player, maybe the cutscenes featuring Link should be in 1st person.

nickmitchNovember 06, 2011

Link being a mute doesn't have anything to do with the NPCs talking. The main argument for the series not to have voice acting seems to be around Link's voice and the "Zelda tradition." Whatever tradition you think is there is mostly in your head. The series needs to keep growing, and since it's been moving in to a story telling direction, voice acting is the way to go.

As for Link being a lefty, he pretty much has to be right handed for the controls to work. However, he can still be a lefty in 3DS Zeldas.

ThanerosNovember 07, 2011

Quote from: nickmitch

Link being a mute doesn't have anything to do with the NPCs talking. The main argument for the series not to have voice acting seems to be around Link's voice and the "Zelda tradition." Whatever tradition you think is there is mostly in your head. The series needs to keep growing, and since it's been moving in to a story telling direction, voice acting is the way to go.


Maybe I'm just old fashion but I still believe great stories can still be told via text...js...

It's not that they can't do it well in text; it's just that voice acting, if done well, would be a lot better, and more fitting with the kind of presentation the series has these days.

nickmitchNovember 07, 2011

Great stories have been told with just text, but Zelda is now so much more than just text already. It's essentially a silent film in a world of talkies.

AdrockNovember 07, 2011

Of course they can. That's why people still read and write books. However, games are a very different medium. You have video and audio. If you're not going to take advantage of it, might as well get rid of the music and sound effects since we can just use our imaginations.

StogiNovember 07, 2011

Question: Would you rather have an Orchestrated Soundtrack or Voice Acting?

broodwarsNovember 07, 2011

Quote from: Stogi

Question: Would you rather have an Orchestrated Soundtrack or Voice Acting?

There's no reason you can't have both and do them well, like much of the industry has been doing for years now.

StogiNovember 07, 2011

That's not my point. Which one do you think is more important to a gaming experience?

broodwarsNovember 07, 2011

Quote from: Stogi

That's not my point. Which one do you think is more important to a gaming experience?

Voice Acting.  Synth technology has evolved to the point where in games with high-quality synth like Xenoblade, the sound between synth and recorded symphonic is so similar that it's likely nearly indistinguishable to most players.  On the flipside, there is a very clear distinction between having voice acting and having pure text, with me having a definite preference for voice acting these days.  When I want to read a story and imagine character voices, I'll open a book.  I don't want to have to read my games as well, and good voice acting can do so much to elevate an experience.

Yeah, I've got to agree with broodwars. Modern synth is a lot less noticeable of a downside than no voice acting.

CericNovember 07, 2011

I'm sorry but I totally disagree with you guys on Voice Acting being a super improvement.

I'll put it this way if Nintendo recreated 2 classic games of equal interest to me, one read Totally redone modern soundtrack that complements and captures the essence of the story, and the other read all the text in the game now has accompanying emotional Voice Acting that really captures the essence of the story.  I probably make a point to not buy the Voice Acted one.

To me out of all the things Nintendo could do with the series going forward Voice Acting is a distance spot away from Supporting my 3D TV and that's not a medium priority for me.  I rather have true 5.1 Surround support before either of those.

MagicCow64November 07, 2011

I just can't get worked up about voice acting. I hate extended cut scenes in games, and have since FF VII popularized that nefarious trend back in the day. Stuff now like Mass Effect where spoken dialogue is extremely pervasive doesn't really bother me, but I always, always skip through dialogue as soon as I finish reading the subtitles. So it's not so much an immersive presentation as one with a bunch of jerky jumps between half-finished sentences. It takes too long to listen to dialogue in an interactive context, though I agree with the poster above about Half-Life 2's approach.

Frankly I think games moving heavily toward pretensions of "storytelling" is a pox on the art form and that Zelda would do well to avoid going in that direction.

AdrockNovember 07, 2011

Your issue, then, is with the cutscene, not the voice acting. I don't like watching extended cutscenes either. That's like going to the theater to watch a movie but they stop the reel right in the middle and force you to solve a puzzle first. It seems silly to ask the audience to partake in something other than what's intended. Games are meant to be played, movies are meant to be watched, books are meant to be read and so on. If Nintendo insists on putting little movies all over their videogames, then, yeah, I want the cutscenes to be as cinematic as possible. There should always be an option to fast forward or skip cutscenes altogether. The voice acting should be there for people who don't want to read text, who find it more engrossing. The option to fast forward/skip should be there for people who don't want to be bothered. I think that's the fairest way to go about it. Personally, I think cutscenes in videogames is lazy storytelling. I wish more companies would try to tell their stories through the action in the game.

ThanerosNovember 07, 2011

Quote from: MagicCow64

I just can't get worked up about voice acting. I hate extended cut scenes in games, and have since FF VII popularized that nefarious trend back in the day. Stuff now like Mass Effect where spoken dialogue is extremely pervasive doesn't really bother me, but I always, always skip through dialogue as soon as I finish reading the subtitles. So it's not so much an immersive presentation as one with a bunch of jerky jumps between half-finished sentences. It takes too long to listen to dialogue in an interactive context, though I agree with the poster above about Half-Life 2's approach.

Frankly I think games moving heavily toward pretensions of "storytelling" is a pox on the art form and that Zelda would do well to avoid going in that direction.



Only in games like Deus Ex,LA Noir,Mass Effect where you have to 'read' ppl I think voice acting truly necessary.

CericNovember 07, 2011

Quote from: Adrock

Your issue, then, is with the cutscene, not the voice acting. I don't like watching extended cutscenes either. That's like going to the theater to watch a movie but they stop the reel right in the middle and force you to solve a puzzle first. It seems silly to ask the audience to partake in something other than what's intended. Games are meant to be played, movies are meant to be watched, books are meant to be read and so on. If Nintendo insists on putting little movies all over their videogames, then, yeah, I want the cutscenes to be as cinematic as possible. There should always be an option to fast forward or skip cutscenes altogether. The voice acting should be there for people who don't want to read text, who find it more engrossing. The option to fast forward/skip should be there for people who don't want to be bothered. I think that's the fairest way to go about it. Personally, I think cutscenes in videogames is lazy storytelling. I wish more companies would try to tell their stories through the action in the game.

I believe cutscenes are unavoidable much like Fix point in time for Dr. Who are.  There are parts of the story that need to happen just so to be able to make a compelling story.  Though a good story will keep those to a minimum.

Ian SaneNovember 07, 2011

I want good voice acting and good writing.  Practically all videogames fail on one or the other.  I can't stand Mario's voice and Other M has embarassingly poor writing.  Zelda would be worse off with voice acting if either one of those were a problem.  But it is pretty silly to not move forward on something like that because it could suck.

What I don't want to see is touchscreen controls like in the DS games.  I don't dislike it because it's different, I dislike it because it SUCKS.  It's an awkward and unintuitive way to control the game and is blantantly forced.  I completely skipped Spirit Tracks because of Phantom Hourglass' terrible shit controls.  Zelda is my favourite videogame series and yet I intentionally avoided playing a game in the series because of the controls!  I didn't want to do that but PH was so frustrating to play that I knew I would get no enjoyment from any future games with the same controls.  I don't want those types of controls even hinted at in Zelda 3DS.  If it doesn't have conventional controls I don't want it.

Crappy voice acting and a crappy story would not be good but nothing outright ruins a game like poor controls.  I don't want the gameplay to suffer (and that was my real beef with Other M).

MagicCow64November 07, 2011

Quote from: Ian

I want good voice acting and good writing.  Practically all videogames fail on one or the other.  I can't stand Mario's voice and Other M has embarassingly poor writing.  Zelda would be worse off with voice acting if either one of those were a problem.  But it is pretty silly to not move forward on something like that because it could suck.

What I don't want to see is touchscreen controls like in the DS games.  I don't dislike it because it's different, I dislike it because it SUCKS.  It's an awkward and unintuitive way to control the game and is blantantly forced.  I completely skipped Spirit Tracks because of Phantom Hourglass' terrible **** controls.  Zelda is my favourite videogame series and yet I intentionally avoided playing a game in the series because of the controls!  I didn't want to do that but PH was so frustrating to play that I knew I would get no enjoyment from any future games with the same controls.  I don't want those types of controls even hinted at in Zelda 3DS.  If it doesn't have conventional controls I don't want it.

Crappy voice acting and a crappy story would not be good but nothing outright ruins a game like poor controls.  I don't want the gameplay to suffer (and that was my real beef with Other M).

RE: Your first point: Precisely, all of these "cinematic" games with full voice acting often have insufferably bad writing even if the voice actors are putting their backs into it. I have an extremely hard time thinking of an exception to this in the modern era. Maybe Eternal Darkness, but that was so long ago I might have just been impressed by the ambition of it. In general it's like people who can't hack it in the low-standard world of television slide down the scale into video game writing.

Other M really was a series-souring disaster, both in terms of presentation and gameplay. While I agree that Nintendo should do as much as possible to keep their existing franchises fresh and relevant, I don't think grafting a narrative focus on is the way to go. I would rather they invent some new franchises where a modern-style narrative focus is natural, and develop their chops with that before they try to integrate it into Zelda and Mario games.

LittleIrvesNovember 07, 2011

MagicCow64, I agree with your first point...  I also read the text and skip forward, leaving the voice acting a half-spoken mess. Have no need for a fully-voiced Zelda game in the future. I recently acquired a 360 and I've gotten so frustrated with how slooow so many of the games are when there's a cutscene every 10 minutes. Bah. Just let me play, give me the good stuff.
I disagree, however, that Other M was such a "souring" experience. Sure, some of the writing was laughable, but the core gameplay was compelling and interesting enough for me not to be too bothered by the story. Maybe it was the sheer novelty of a full-bore Nintendo cinematic game, but I thought the cutscenes/v.o. was neat at best, uninspired at worst, but oh well. Too many people hated on that game for not enough of a good reason, imo.

AdrockNovember 07, 2011

Quote from: MagicCow64

Precisely, all of these "cinematic" games with full voice acting often have insufferably bad writing even if the voice actors are putting their backs into it. I have an extremely hard time thinking of an exception to this in the modern era.

Uncharted 2: Among Thieves.

Bad writing is bad writing whether you have to read it or listen to it, so that in and of itself isn't a reason not to do voice acting. There's an argument to be made that there are too many cutscenes, but that's a separate issue. I really don't understand how anyone can argue that well-done voice acting isn't better than just text. It may not be necessary, but it would be nice to have. If you for whatever reason hate the sound of people's voices or whatever, you can turn it off.

MagicCow64November 08, 2011

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

Bad writing is bad writing whether you have to read it or listen to it, so that in and of itself isn't a reason not to do voice acting. There's an argument to be made that there are too many cutscenes, but that's a separate issue. I really don't understand how anyone can argue that well-done voice acting isn't better than just text. It may not be necessary, but it would be nice to have. If you for whatever reason hate the sound of people's voices or whatever, you can turn it off.

I think this is a matter of aesthetic vision. If suddenly everyone has to talk for real, then I think there's a real inclination to bloat up the story emphasis and toss in hyperbolic characterizations and incessant "comic relief." With text only you can read through any text quickly, and moreover, I would argue that the game designers keep the narrative tighter. They know people don't want to spend a lot of time reading, but cut-scenes and voice acting are supposed to be "entertaining," like Hollywood movies, so the more the merrier.

A half-assed example: SNES RPGs. I don't think many people would have wanted Chrono Trigger or FFIII programmed with the later Square ethos in place. I never touched Chrono Chross or the PS Chrono Trigger remake, but I've heard they're terrible.

Skyward Sword has something like 90 minutes of cutscenes with just the text; it's not like they're skimping on the story right now.

CericNovember 08, 2011

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

Skyward Sword has something like 90 minutes of cutscenes with just the text; it's not like they're skimping on the story right now.

and they kept it to a single layer disc.  Which is surprising.

Luigi DudeNovember 08, 2011

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

Skyward Sword has something like 90 minutes of cutscenes with just the text; it's not like they're skimping on the story right now.

The main game is said to take around 35 hours to complete.  90 minutes of cutscenes for a 35 hour main game is still very small on story content.  Most games now a days have several hours worth of cutscenes for main games that are not even close to 20 hours.

I don't care how long the game is, 90 minutes of cutscenes without voice acting is too much. I trust Nintendo to not skimp on the quality when it comes to a major Zelda release, so I'm not really afraid they'd screw it up because of it. They would do it right because it's Zelda, and voice acting done right would certainly improve the series.

MagicCow64November 08, 2011

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

I don't care how long the game is, 90 minutes of cutscenes without voice acting is too much. I trust Nintendo to not skimp on the quality when it comes to a major Zelda release, so I'm not really afraid they'd screw it up because of it. They would do it right because it's Zelda, and voice acting done right would certainly improve the series.

Well, personally I would prefer the 90 minutes without voice to 3 hours of cutscenes with performances, if my formulation were to hold true. (Also, Nintendo has never done in-house full voice acting before, I bet they would totally fuck it up.)

That said, I seriously doubt Nintendo will be able to get away with this again in five years when the next main console Zelda rolls around (when Link begins his adventure in the gentle village of Seatrench). If anything I will take Skyward Sword as a coda to the era of verbal silence.

That's a false dilemma. There's no reason to necessarily believe that they'd make that huge jump because of the addition of voices. Also, I'm sure there are a lot of people, myself included, who would still rather have 3 hours voiced than 90 minutes of text. And like I said, this is Zelda. They would not fuck it up with Zelda; it's too important of a franchise.

MagicCow64November 08, 2011

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

That's a false dilemma. There's no reason to necessarily believe that they'd make that huge jump because of the addition of voices. Also, I'm sure there are a lot of people, myself included, who would still rather have 3 hours voiced than 90 minutes of text. And like I said, this is Zelda. They would not **** it up with Zelda; it's too important of a franchise.

It's a hypothesis, granted. But I would compare the 1.5/35 hours on Skyward Sword, which is rooted in "archaic" narrative design, to something on the "cutting-edge" like Gears of War 3, with a 1.5/8 hours cut-scene ratio. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that adding voice acting/modern video game cinematics would inflate the amount of time spent in cut scenes.

And I don't dispute that Nintendo would certainly give a voice presentation its all, I just think it would end up really bland and tiresome like Blue Dragon or something.

Nintendo has a proud history of not caring one bit what everyone else does in favor of their own vision. (This isn't really meant as criticism, just a matter of fact statement. It serves them well just as often as it screws them over.) Hell, that's a big chunk of the reason they haven't yet switched to voice acting. My point, though, is that I wouldn't look to what other games do with it, because that is in no way indicative of how Nintendo will do things. And I believe people with more knowledge on the subject than I have have pointed out examples of Nintendo-published games with good voice acting earlier in this thread, so I wouldn't bet against them in this case.

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