Metroid Prime 1 and 2 Wiimakes FTW. I will definitely be importing these if they don't come to America. Chibi-Robo! might be one I need to pick up too if they add cool Wii control stuff.

This is old news!  Nintendo already released their first Wii-Make a couple months ago!

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/reviewArt.cfm?artid=16637

Wait, seriously? They're re-releasing games from the last generation? I sense Nintendo is getting lazy. It's not enough to re-release MP1 & 2 with MP3's control scheme thrown in. You've gotta update the look, too. Not that MP1 & 2 looked bad (they look great), but unless these are $20 apiece, there's little incentive here.

Couldn't even bear to drop the price in half

Nintendo is really putting pressure on themselves by Wiimaking Mario Power Tennis.  Let's face it everyone is expecting Wii Sports equivalent swing mechanics.  They wussed out with Mario Super Sluggers and it's pretty pathetic if they wuss out again.  They probably will though since this isn't a new tennis game being made from the ground up.

If they can't do it right they shouldn't do it at all.  Better to make a new tennis game from the ground up.  They won't and they probably won't suffer for it because they specifically target these games at people who won't notice.

I don't think MP1, 2 and 3 don't look different enough that updated graphics are even worth the effort. The pricetag is a little high for what it is though.

Maybe their pricing structure is meant for people that haven't played the game yet. I know it sound illogical, and unfair for those that might want to re-buy these wiimakes.

Nintendo has talked about this in the past and to say they are lazy considering the huge announcements this week seems a bit far fetched.

It would be very cool for Nintendo to offer a rebate to anyone who bought the originals and registered them through Nintendo's website. Of course this wouldn't cover all of the games on that list, but if you were able to order them off the website for 10 bucks off or something that would be great.

Yes that would be an ideal solution, Mr. Jack.

How much did the RE4 wiimake go for when it was released?

$30

I will buy Prime 1 and 2 for great waggle justice.

Hmm I thought it was going for a little more, and it turns out that locally they still sell it at $34.99 (Futureshop) which quite honestly I think it's what Nintendo is going to market these "new" games at, and considering the sub par job Capcom did with RE4 Wii Edition and still managed to have outstanding sales it probably gave Nintendo the message that they can market these wiimakes within the $30 to $40 price range.

I would've really liked to see Prime 1 and 2 on a single disc. I definitely would've paid full price for it, wonder why Nintendo didn't take that route.... Same goes with Pikmin 1 and 2.

I'd guess that people would see great value with either package (2 games for 1) and be more inclined to purchase.

Hey, I think Capcom did a great job on the RE4 Wii Edition. The new control scheme was spot-on, all the PS2 bonuses were awesome. I happily payed $30 for it.

However, notice that Wii gamers got all the PS2 bonuses. We didn't just get RE4 with motion controls. We got more content, too. I expect that in the GC remakes.

I'm concerned that this is their focus towards the "original gamera" (its better than t3h hardporn core) for the next few years. Remake existing games for those who missed out, coz they didn't buy a cube.

If they are going to go all out, bring back the gems that nearly everybody missed out on. Like Ikaruga.

MWAHAHAHAHA! Picked that baby up a few days ago, and jungle beat! No need to spend money on those games again :-D

Here's to paying another $40 for them when they come out on the VC for Wii Too!!

no luigis mansion... what what what.

QFT

As for not bundling the Prime 1&2 on one disk, I'm betting that Nintendo figures that the two games will get more combined sales individually, than the 2 together.

OMFG how could I forget that game!?! Yes Nintendo Wiimake this ... or give us a new one, that works too.

Yay I've always wanted to play Pikmin 2.  ;D It's so rare and expensive now. Wii-controls could make it easier to play too.

You're in for a treat Schadenfreude, Pikmin 2 is a phenomenal game. It's what Pikmin should've been from the start.

Psst... I prefer the original Pikmin.

What I really like about this program is that it forces Nintendo to differentiate their real sequels to these franchises with more than just tacked-on motion controls.  It means Pikmin 3 can't be just like Pikmin 2 with new controls -- they have to try a lot harder and actually do new things.

Considering Metroid 2 Wii was shown at an E3 presentation ages ago, they've waited a long time to do this. That being said, they don't need to do this. The games had better have new content other than controls, or this will be exactly like Capcom's RE0 version: a cheap way to make money off the hardcore without actually giving them anything. So, this is Nintendo's plan? Give its loyal audience the same games full price with almost nothing new. Oh wait, they've been doing this for years. But these games were released a generation ago.

Yeah because all Nintendo is releasing are these remakes. Come on people stop with the dramatics and complaining it gets OLD especially after a stellar conference with new games for the core base.

AMEN.  Pikmin 2 was great; Pikmin was magical.

Nintendo (actually Miyamoto) announced plans to port GameCube games to the Wii ages ago.  It happened long before this past E3.  It happened long before part of the fanbase developed abandonment issues.  It happened before the Wii even launched.  Check the date on this report.

This is the fulfillment of plans set into motion over two years ago.  It has nothing to do with Nintendo not liking some of you anymore.

I'll buy Metroid Prime 2 if it has online multiplayer. That would be AWESOME. Awesome controls.

To me the PS2 content was a reasonably decent justification for the Wii version.  I'm not too keen on reissues but Capcom actually had no slightly compromised versions of RE4.  The Cube version was missing extra PS2 features but the PS2 version didn't have as good of graphics as the Cube one.  So the Wii version is like the definitive version with a new controller scheme added in.  You could argue there was demand for a version that combined all the elements of the Cube and PS2 versions.  Note that it also has classic controller support if you want the original controls something I really doubt Nintendo will offer.  They didn't offer it with Zelda.

Capcom didn't have to create anything new though.  Nintendo will.  So the odds of significant new content happening is pretty low.  And even then again is that a good use of resources?  Couldn't they put that effort to something new that isn't, you know, already playable on the Wii if you do the ten seconds of research required to know that?

I do like Jonny's point though about how this forces Nintendo to do more with Pikmin 3.  My only concern is who will they make Pikmin 3 for: the original fans or the new audience?  If the Wiimake is significantly different then that might not result in the type of sequel existing Pikmin fans would prefer.  It guess it all depends how these turn out.

Preach it. Anyone that thinks this is new news is a fool riding the "nintendo doesnt love me" bandwagon. The only reason we're discussing it is because we finally know some of the great GC games Nintendo plans on upgrading to Wii.

With that said, if you bought Pikmin/Metroid Prime (1 + 2 for each) during the GC era or any time after, good for you. If you havent, guess what; nows your chance!

I did not enjoy the time limit of the original Pikmin; I couldn't take the pressure. I've been told Pikmin 2 gets rid of that and makes improvements.

I aam waiting for Super Mario Sunshine remake like they mentioned before!

I should have been more explicit. Capcom didn't exactly deliver on the widescreen front, and I just hope Nintendo doesn't follow their example.

To be fair I don't think you could really call Miyamoto talking about the possibility of Wiimakes at some hypothetical time as "news".  At best this was a rumour coming true.

My thought is Nintendo knew about that tech when they developed the game and contemplated releasing a peripheral for it.

I believe Iwata mentioned how the Wii could be a platform not only for simple, cheap games like cooking sims but also home to enhanced rereleases of GC games. In fact I explicitly remember him saying both of these in the same context indicating they were seriously considering it.So your spin doesn't quite make sense Ian. This was one of various things Nintendo was seriously considering doing with Wii.

Also not sure where you get this "rumor" coming true thought because a rumor at its core in the gaming industry is something that is "whispered" about in unnamed sources. Miyamoto clearly stated what they may do with the Wii and like I said, Iwata did as well, that is far FAR from a rumor.

Yeah, I'd really like to see Luigi's Mansion and Mario Sunshine released with Wii cursor controls. Shame not to see them on this list.

Also, I'm a bit hesitant to be excited about Jungle Beat. Using bongos as a control method is interesting. Using the Wii remote to simulate bongos is interesting. But using the Wii remote to simulate using bongos as a control method is a step too far, and just ends up being stupid.

GOD I hope this isn't what Retro's been working on. Maybe 3 guys AT MOST if they are though.. AT MOST.

I wouldn't count on new features you guys. These are budget-priced, remember? They don't have to justify repurchases from people who've already played them, they're going after the people who didn't own GCs using the price as the reason, and not angling for repurchases from us.

AS FOR PRICE, the Japan Price sounds just a tiny tad on the high side. Wii Sports sells there for what... 5800? Zelda: TP sold for 6800? I guess that 3800 really is sensibly priced from several angles, but in my mind that translates to $35 or $40 US and that is just ludicrous (except for Pikmin!).

I do like this idea though, especially the Jungle Beat wiimake. Jungle Beat was vastly underappreciated, and deserves a second showing to an expanded audience. As for Pikmin... original Pikmin FTW! OH I'M IN HEAVEN! That's another game that I hope becomes a more stable Nintendo franchise.

Chibi-Robo is a strange choice, but I never quite "got" the game, and for it's fans it may be in the same situation I described for Jungle Beat. The Metroids are sort of... *eh* (Maybe I'll think about rebuying the first one).

I don't get the Mario Tennis choice, does Nintendo think the core gameplay wouldn't end up changed much in a Wii sequel, so why not just re-use it already?

When it comes from Miyamoto, it isn't a rumor.

Not many new features, no, but at a minimum I'd expect to see Wiimote/nunchuk controls (as opposed to the Classic Controller or GC controller), and 16:9 support. (Also progressive scan, but I think that pretty much every first-party title except Luigi's Mansion supports it.)

Personally, I'm expecting these to retail for $30 here.

"I don't get the Mario Tennis choice, does Nintendo think the core gameplay wouldn't end up changed much in a Wii sequel, so why not just re-use it already?"

Nintendo is saving money.  They know Namco is inept and Camelot can't do any better.

I DO believe they'll all feature wiimote + nunchuk controls. After all, why remake them if not?

However, I think we should basically throw any hopes of online out the window.

I stand corrected, as per UncleBob, all 7 games support Progressive Scan.
Games Nintendo should also re-release:

1080: Avalanche
Wave Race: Blue Storm
Wind Wanker
Cubivore
Geist

... And if they never make sequels for 'em they should release:

Fzero-GX
Luigi's Mansion

Because they're looking for a quick buck? ;)

Are there any multiplayer games they've announced besides Metroid Prime 2? (I haven't played DKJB, Pikmin 2, or Chibi-Robo, admittedly.) Or perhaps more to the point, are there any good multiplayer games that they've announced? :P

Given how late those came out in the system's lifetime, that's rather disturbing. This site seems to think that both are 480p; could it just be that they aren't listed on the box, or have you actually tried them?

I would buy Geist with pointer controls. Oh, I so would buy Geist with pointer controls...

I just plugged them both in and they do feature Pro-Scan modes on the GameCube.

mario tennis is a good move if they get the wii controls spot on. mt on gc was already a very mild update to the n64 version and it looked beautiful.

I hope this doesnt mean no more sequels for these series. perhaps like S&P on VC they are testing consumer interest?

pikmin 2 is unopened back home...

Ah okay, I stand corrected :) neither of them said on the back of the box.

I think, since Nintendo officially stopped supporting the Component Cables, they pretty much stopped advertising that some of the games used them.

Almost all first-party GC games have progressive scan.

If you think Jungle Beat with Wii controls is a good idea, I invite you to rent DK Bongo Blast.  That'll change your mind real quick.

Oooh. I have nothing to say to that, lol.

Did you use your lap as a drum? That's the only way I could see it work.

duh, can't you do the "Let's Tap" system?

I love all these GameCube games. But they belong to the Cube and not the Wii (and I already own them). I'll be keeping an eye on the remakes but probably won't buy them.

Remember, non-American prices != American prices.

This is true, but I don't see them releasing over here for anything less than $30, and that price is too high for what it is. I think Caliban mentioned it, a MP1 & 2 combo disc for $40 would be the sweet spot for those, so $20-$25 each would be perfect.

I'd gladly pay $30 apiece for MP 1 & 2, I never owned them but I bought Corruption and I couldn't go back and play the first two without the third's controls. Also, because I'm an idiot, I sold the original Pikmin a long time ago and I'd love to get it back.

I agree about Bongo Blast.  My friend bought this for some reason and let's just say regarding worst Nintendo games it gives Kirby Air Ride a run for it's money.  I've never seen someone work so hard to convince himself he was having fun.  My friend looked so annoyed and irritated as he was playing the game all while talking about how he got it for such a good deal and it didn't "cheat" like Mario Kart.

Doesn't Samba de Amigo pretty much control like balls with the remotes?  I think Nintendo is very overly ambitious in what they think the remote is capable of replicating.  Part of the appeal of using a musical instrument controller is that it feels like an instrument.

For the record, I think a remake of Donkey Konga using the Wii remote and nunchuck would play great. The problem is that using bongo controls to control a different genre is only meaningful if you have an actual bongo controller. Without that, you'll just be controlling a platformer in the least intuitive way possible.

How bout a remake of F-Zero GX w/ Excite Truck controls!!?

Wouldn't that make it even harder?

That's what she said.

And yes, it would be impossible to beat.

Thats interesting, I hope it ends up being true, with this new Nintendo you relaly never know.

I fail to see the appeal of GC games with tacked remote controls and always will be but people seem to be crazy about the idea. The more people who play Metroid Prime or Pikmin the better so I can't complain, even though for both games, specially Pikmin, the remote has little to offer since the games are perfectly designed for a GC controller.

It wasn't me. Halbred did mention that they should be $20 each, and I think it's a price everyone can agree with.

Did you at least play the first Pikmin game?

I do wonder if there will be an option to control the Wii re-releases with the GameCube Controllers (or Bongo Controllers, in the case of Jungle Beat)....

With the notable exception of Nintendo's upper management, of course.

Seriously though, $20 is pie-in-the sky thinking. $30 is an established price point that's been proven in the marketplace already (thanks Capcom), and leaves ample room for manufacturing/shipping expenses, retailer cuts, porting costs, and some profit.

Do you guys seriously expect Nintendo to release Metroid Prime 1 at the same price as Ninjabread Man? *boggle*

You know what has surprised me most about this latest string of announcements? It is like the Wii is the system of choice for bringing back respected but "forgotten" franchises like Samba, Nights, Klonoa, and even Sin and Punishment.

It's too bad Samba and Nights aren't exactly high quality games.

lol maybe i could finally beat the game if that was the case

I suspect they won't mostly because Twilight Princess didn't.  Capcom released RE4 with the option to use the classic controller but that makes sense.  Why wouldn't Capcom want to provide people with the most controller options?  But Capcom has nothing to prove, they just want the game to sell well.  Nintendo doesn't just want to sell the game they want to sell the remote concept.  They had this big song and dance about how the remote was the new standard in controllers and whether or not that's true (it isn't) they want people to think that.

Zelda didn't have the option for the classic or Gamecube controller even though they already designed controls like that for the Cube version, even though the game was originally designed with controls like that in mind.  Why?  Because if people could play the Wii version with whatever option they wish they might *gasp* prefer the classic control method or *gasp* it might reveal that the classic controls work BETTER.  Uh oh.  That kind of ruins the whole "new controller standard" thing.

Now Nintendo has offered control options for some of their Wii games like Mario Kart.  But those games were designed from the ground up for the Wii.  Nintendo can be confident in the Wii controls because they can choose to design the game however they wish.  But these games like TP were designed with Gamecube controllers in mind.  If they do not seemlessly transfer to the "new standard" Nintendo looks like chumps.  The Wii remote would be a pretty sh!tty controller standard if only games designed for it from the ground up could use it effectively.  A true controller standard would seemlessly adapt old control schemes.

Now SSB Brawl is an exception.  It doesn't make any real attempt to use the remote and is incredibly flexible with control options.  So there is the possibility of Nintendo including the original options.  And Zelda was a launch game and these aren't.  But just remember they don't just have to sell the game.  They're trying to prove the superiority of their "new controller standard".  They want these Wii versions to appear to better than the Cube ones and if they have to "hide" the Cube controls because they're better they'll do it.

I don't know why they would deliberately stop you from using the controllers you already have. Nintendo may be intolerant at times, but not when it comes to selling old games. They don't care how you play; they just want you to buy it.

I thought the same thing until I rented Mario Super Sluggers.  No option to use a standard control scheme, its a complete waggle fest.

Was that a GC game?

I'm fairly certain there is a control option where you hold the remote sideways and it is completely devoid of waggle. I've only played the game once and I was slightly drunk so I can't make a certain judgment but I'm pretty sure of it...

Are you sure you played the same game I did? Waggle was quite minor relegating mostly to sprinting, batting and throwing all of which (well maybe excluding sprinting) were natural feeling.

It's a "new" Wii game (that is remarkably similar to its GameCube predecessor, aside from the aforementioned lack of a standard control scheme).

Also, the phrase "waggle fest" made me laugh out loud.

The Wii Remote/Nunchuk control scheme is very overrated.  It's extremely good for certain types of games, but very mediocre (bordering on unnecessary or even annoying) for others.  On a straight player-to-game interaction level, mapping some gestures to waggle actually makes them more, not less, complex, defeating its entire purpose of non-complexity.

It's not "very overrated" because nobody overrates it that way. The only time I've ever seen anyone claim that the Wii control scheme is supposed to be the best control scheme for everything is in Ian's posts. Everybody else realizes that, like every control scheme ever made, it has advantages and disadvantages.

Well, hey, Nintendo claimed that's what it was supposed to be.

Because we all know there is one control method out there that is perfect for everything.

This option is there, but its even worse, as you're relegated to a few responsibilities while the computer does the rest.  Why they didn't just copy what Power Pro's did w/ the Classic Controller I'll never know.

It will, just give it time, after the motion plus comes out.  Now, for the low price of $70+, we may soon have that controller!

That still sounds wrong to me. I remember it playing EXACTLY like the Gamecube version at that point. I don't remember the computer doing anything for me. Can you specify what functions the computer was performing?

I've never seen anyone from Nintendo claiming that. Even if they did, they made it, of course they're going to talk it up. It's like Microsoft resorting to claiming that they're the number 1 "HD console", companies that are trying to sell something always try to put the best face on it.

Here's the most detailed description I could find:
Super Sluggers gives you three different control schemes to choose from. Unlike the old fairy tale, none of these options feels just right. Players can utilize just a Wii-mote, having the Wii control everything besides batting and pitching, not unlike a lamer version of Wii Sports Baseball. By attaching a Nunchuk, players can control their fielders, choose which base to throw to, and even control their base runners. Last but not least, my favorite control scheme, you can use the Wii-mote turned on its side like a classic NES pad.
When using just a Wii-mote, players will still need to bat, pitch, and waggle to throw to bases and speed up their base runners. Everything else is completely controlled by the Wii. Not being able to control your base runners is a major pain, especially when hitting pop flies to the outfield.
http://cheatcc.com/wii/rev/mariosupersluggersreview.html

Hmm, I'll have to look into that. My brother is coming home Thursday morning so I'll have him bring that along and I'll test it out again ... or I can just ask Neal and see that way. Either way I should be able to confirm/deny this soon.

1up and IGN said the same thing, they just didn't explain it as well. 

They didn't just talk the talk.  By releasing it as the standard Wii controller and offering the Classic Controller as a seperately sold accessory they walked they walk.  They took a general controller design that had worked for over 20 years and was compatible with easily over 90% of console games ever made and replaced it with an NES controller turned vertically with motion control.  Aside from the fact that they talked it up by merely doing that they were trying to pass it off as a new standard.  "We don't need this old controller standard that has worked for decades to come with our system.  This remote and nunchuk is good enough."  What controller you include with the console is what you expect developers to design for.  You are saying that controller is the standard.

If they had gone with the classic controller as the default the Wii would have failed.

There's also the Wii Remote on its side which takes out the waggle. Still not a great control method the Wii Remote becomes cramped in a Brawl sort of way, but it ain't no waggle fest.
There's nothing wrong with using the Wii Remote and Nunchuk in that game though.

Can someone explain to me how offering a different control method (classic controller) "walking the talk?".  Did MS or Sony ever release an alternative control method you could buy? Yeah I thought so.

Well yeah.  Without the remote the Wii would have been like throwing the Gamecube in a new box and hoping no one notices.  Nintendo would have had to have done a lot of things differently.  Unless you mean the remote still exists but it just an accessory like a lightgun.  In that case if they sold Wii Sports seperately from the console but bundled with the remote they might have still done okay.

Wii Sports sold the Wii and if people were willing to go nuts over Guitar Hero and Rock Band despite the fact that they require a special controller they could have likely done the same for Wii Sports.  The Wii is kind of like a console that ships with Guitar Hero and a guitar controller and you have to buy the normal controller seperately and everyone tries to make normal games that use the guitar controller, even though it makes no sense to.

They could however have packaged the remote, nunchuk and classic controller with each console and it wouldn't have changed a thing except with developers knowing that every Wii owner had a classic controller they could always aim to use the controls that work the best and not shoehorn everything in the remote with dumb waggle because they can't rely on the customer to own the classic controller.

Funny thing is that I could SWEAR Ian said Nintendo was not confident in the Wiimote BECAUSE they were releasing the classic controller as an alternative.

Oh lookie what I found

Nintendo put themselves in a can't win situation when they talked about the remote being a new controller standard.  If it was just "look at this cool new accessory we've made" no problem.  But because it's the default controller it's subject to more scrutiny.  Do they need to offer a classic controller?  Yes.  Would a true new controller standard need such a thing to exist?  No, it would be fully compatible with past designs similar to how the N64 controller, despite a new analog stick, would still work correctly with NES and SNES games.  The existence of the classic controller proves that the remote is not a good standard at all.  It shows they don't have full confidence in the remote.  But they're right in doing so because the remote ISN'T good enough.  The alternative has to be there.

The problem is essentially Nintendo CAN'T prove the remote is a good standard because it isn't.  They can't prove it's a good standard if they have to provide an alternative but if they don't all sorts of games will control like crap which equally proves the remote isn't a good standard.  They're seemingly damned if they do, damned if the don't.  The only way to not look like chumps was to never position the remote as a standard in the first place but just a cool novelty controller like a flightstick or a lightgun or an instrument controller.

But Nintendo did find a way out of the trap they created for themselves - they targetted a group that doesn't pay enough attention to notice.  This rather brilliant strategy is why Nintendo suceeded when I figured for sure they would fail.

On the flip side, there really isn't a problem -- you're putting way too much weight on a single device as if video game control itself was a rigid standard based on a single means of input.

The Wii platform (the concept, not the hardware) is all about "alternatives."  The breadth of the experience isn't confined to one way of touching the controller, and is illustrated in the numerous SUCCESSFUL supplements and approaches applied to the controller.  It IS a cool novelty controller and makes good standard if it's able to provide the versatility of being that flightstick or lightgun or instrument.  Beyond those I can move from Mario Kart (Team Reggie defeating non-Wii Wheel users) to Mega Man (retro mega classical platforming), from Resident Evil (gliding through Professional Mode with glee) to Smash Bros. (upsetting Caterkiller's Donkey Kong).

Wii is an alternative direction in the industry, bringing together modern with classic, downloads with retail, physical with fun, new gamers with old.  The DS already demonstrated its approach to "control standards" on numerous occasions, being a preceding example of alternative concepts in gameplay.

A lackluster waggle controller isn't the only thing to blame -- there's a developer who made the decision to use waggle in the first place.

"true control standard" is just a rosy way to describe stagnation -- the same stagnation that helped a cheap waggle console ruin your world.  I can't wait for the day you become part of the next generation of "lapsed gamers", geez.

Nintendo had the cajones to code name their console the "Revolution".  That name didn't come across as Nintendo saying, "Our control scheme is going to have its advantages and disadvantages".  It was hyperbole for sure, but it was Nintendo's hyperbole and nobody else's.  So Nintendo overrated what they delivered - no surprise there.

I really like the Wii Remote, but it certainly hasn't changed the face of game control.  It's proven to be a very viable, and even preferable, alternative for certain types of games (specifically, games that lend themselves to mimicking certain key motions, like the swinging of a bat or tossing of a bowling ball).  However, it hasn't made everybody throw their joysticks in the ocean, which Nintendo seemed to infer leading up to Wii's release.

The Wii Remote/Nunchuk combo has always reminded me of one of those arcade games like DDR or Time Crisis.  They have very specific hardware with very specific input mechanisms, meaning they're excellent for certain types of games.  You could technically play any type of game on them by mapping normal controls to their proprietary input schemes, but you wouldn't necessarily want to.

I feel like the Wii Remote/Nunchuk is a good 1.0 version of the controller.  I like where Nintendo's going with the idea, but the Wii controls just aren't mature enough yet to truly be considered revolutionary.  And by revolutionary, I mean the "new standard" that's so good that joysticks go away entirely.

I agree. That's why I can't wait for two things to happen: One, more games that do a better job of taking advantage of the controller in a meaningful way; and two, to get my hands on Wiimotion +.

Oh and three: I can't wait to see what Aunama, Miyamoto, and EAD do with the next Zelda; the pinnacle in gaming.

I can't wait until Sony innovates with not one but TWO motion controllers. Seriously I think most here who hate on the Wii controls will be eating their words (Like usual) when the next generation moves towards them.

A regular controller would have meant the death of Nintendo even if they had made the console's power equivalent to the PS3 and 360. Nintendo was dying by using that strategy and they had to change the rules to avoid oblivion. If you want a console like the PS3 and 360 then buy one, there's two on the market after all.

The wiimote as a secondary input would have failed too, noone would make games for it. The wiimote was a critical part of Nintendo's disruption by changing the input to be more user firendly and direct, it allowed them to make games that anyone can understand and play since there's no need to worry about menu navigation (just point and click) and the controls worked just by swinging the thing. Without that the Wii would lose most of its appeal to the new market and fail to sell.

Making the Wiimote a superset of old controllers would have failed, the joypad shapes don't work with motion controls as Sony found out the hard way.

By avoiding conventional wisdom and abandoning the old principles of console design Nintendo went from a distand also-ran to the #1 gaming company. This required the hardware and software to be matched to each other (no Wii Sports without Wiimote, no Wiimote without Wii X games), something MS and Sony aren't really capable of. MS and Sony used third parties to drive their consoles and thus had to go with the demands of third parties which want the same system with more power so they can reuse old, proven ideas with little risk but pump up the non-essentials for better marketting.

You can chalk it up to market ignorance but I say MS and Sony are the ignorant ones, not the buyers. The buyers WANT games that challenge them in a short period of time with easy controls. They DON'T WANT big timewasters with controls like an airplane simulator! Flash games are a gigantic market because they provide what people really want, a short, intense challenge that they can keep at for as long as they wish and then put down with no loss.

I hate to use an argument Nintendo made, but throwing more buttons at the user is NOT a great place to be taking gaming. While I love the series, all you need to do is look at a game like Madden which I believe is HAMPERED not helped by the current control pad. It is so much easier to throw a new move or action onto a button, while with the Wii you have to think things through, while they don't always turn out great it is actually getting developers to think a bit about how games control, by breaking them out of the status quo of "More buttons on gamepad mean I can slap in new moves".

I find it funny how every conversation about Nintendo's strategy boils down to peoples' views of other peoples' views.

So, how about them gamecube remakes, eh?

IGN put up some video of DKJB and Pikmin.

http://media.wii.ign.com/media/142/14286426/vids_1.html

http://media.wii.ign.com/media/142/14286420/vids_1.html

So can I get mad at Nintendo then for being that developer?

Who suggests adding more buttons?  I'm merely opposed to Nintendo's decision to remove them when tons of games - Nintendo games - use them.

Nintendo was dying using that strategy because they were f*ck ups.  Considering how much Sony screwed up with the PS3 I think it's very likely Nintendo could have beat them by merely being competent.  But since Nintendo still seems as clueless as ever regarding the old market, yeah they would have been f*cked.  They didn't HAVE to be though.  Nintendo's biggest enemy was always themselves and the solution was really just "stop screwing up obvious stuff".  You're arguing that if Nintendo showed up for the race with their shoelaced tied together again they would lose again.  Well DUH.  But why do they have to tie their shoelaces together?

But not learning that lesson and just targetting a new group seems to have worked for now.  Of course there is nothing stopping another company from taking that new audience away and exposing how inept Nintendo is.  Nintendo still has sh!tty third party support and still does things stupid for no reason (friend codes, their "solution" to the storage problem - a problem they created for themselves in the first place).  They get by because their audience doesn't know better.  They have kind of a monopoly of the blue ocean market.  But when presented with true competition I doubt they'll last because they never fixed anything.  They just targetted a new group but next time there is no new group to run to.

One thing I'm sure we can all agree on:  The NES launching with the Power Glove would have been a quick and gruesome death.

The power glove was not ripe for the market yet. Additionally a glove you have to wear is pretty nerdy and doesn't lend itself to multiple players since it's probably not very comfortable to wear the glove when another person just used it. Also the NES was not capable of 3d and physics simulation...

Yes there are two things preventing it.
1. Asymmetry of skill: No other company has as much control about both the hardware and software side of a console as Nintendo does, this is critical for the disruption to succeed and a counterattack to work. The software that was released for the Wii was a significant part of the disruption, if this was left to third parties we'd get core games with waggle instead of new market games.
2. Asymmetry of motivation: The other companies don't WANT this market, it's the downmarket, less profitable than the core market. It's the market for crappy nongames for nongamers. Because they think of it the same way you do, Ian, they cannot effectively use the market. The incumbents are happy to leave that less profitable market to the disruptor and focus on their "core competencies". Their problem is that the disruptor slowly moves upmarket, chipping away more and more of the core market until the incumbents are locked into a sinking island.

This is the reason for the E3 2008 "desaster": Nintendo prepared for Sony and MS's attempts to steal their new market away, they focussed entirely on that with announcing the MotionPlus before MS had a chance to speak and focussing on new market games while mostly ignoring the core. The counterattack never came and hence Nintendo's war mode seems kinda silly.

Ian, this IS an established pattern and it IS expected that the core, the upmarket held by the incumbents, looks at the new downmarket with disdain because it looks like a cheap and crappy product for non-consumers to them because the disruptive product is deliberately held lower at the overshot values (which are important only to enthusiasts) while focussing on new values.

Taking the incumbent head-on is suicide since the incumbent has more power at his disposal and can stop the newcomer quickly (MS and Sony have tons of money to throw at advertising and third party moneyhats plus Sony had a massive incumbent inertia with the PS3 that led many devs to make games for them even though the PS3 unveiling was a total desaster and its sales weren't guaranteed), a disruption is effective because the incumbent doesn't realize it's an actual threat until it's too late to deal with it and if the incumbent follows good business practices he will suffer since disruption exploits a weakness in the traditional strategy.

Well, I tried.

lol

how sad

Well, what's there to say? Most of us probably don't need them anyway since we bought those games on the Gamecube.