Author Topic: More insanity from George Lucas (Read 14707 times)

BiLdItUp1 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 23, 2004, 04:11:03 PM »

Wow...I will be so pissed if GL does anything rumored here, especially with the whole revionist SW thing. It's come to the point where I no longer feel guilty buying the Laserdisc-pirated DVDs anymore. And now, since Ep3 is gonna suck, there'll be nothing to redeem him but American Graffiti.

Gibdo Master · « **Reply #26 on:** May 23, 2004, 05:23:26 PM »

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Originally posted by: BiLdItUp1
And now, since Ep3 is gonna suck,

And you know this "fact" how?

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #27 on:** May 23, 2004, 05:42:03 PM »

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And you know this "fact" how?

George Lucas is writing and directing it.

BiLdItUp1 · « **Reply #28 on:** May 23, 2004, 06:05:02 PM »

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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
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And you know this "fact" how?

George Lucas is writing and directing it.

Exactamundo. The best SW, ESB was directed by Irvin Kershner, and ROTJ, which is enjoyable if flawed, was done by Lawrence Kasdan. With the exception of American Graffiti and possibly ANH, Lucas directed films suck.

Besides, it might have some saving graces if the rumors posted here aren't true...

But you know all this, so I'm gonna go to bed.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #29 on:** May 23, 2004, 07:24:20 PM »

What bugs me about midiclorians is that they make being a Jedi less of a big deal. All being a Jedi means is that you're one of the lucky few who has a high midiclorian count. WOWEE! I assumed that anybody could become a Jedi Master if they had a strong belief in the Force. The reason only a few became one though is that it required faith in an entity that was hard to prove exists. That's a GREAT metaphor for religion in general. Not everyone is willing to believe but those that do benefit greatly. It's perfect and it's subtle. This midiclorian stuff totally dumbs it down. You're a Jedi because of these microorganisms that Jedi have but regular people don't.

I think that's the real problem with these prequels. A lot of the best stuff in the original trilogy was subtle and we assumed that things were a certain way. The prequels remove the mystery and they reveal that what we assumed was not true was not what Lucas intended. That's a really sucky wake-up call.

Hell I even noticed stuff like that in the Special Editions. I assumed that the Wampa was barely shown to build suspense. "Oh sh!t what's that thing that attacked Luke? F*ck it's coming! Get out of there!" Instead it turns out that he was technically unable to show the beast and that's the only reason we got what we got. What turned out to be a suspensful scare was supposed to be a slasher b-movie "scare". Yeah. And I thought the original Sarlac pit was really cool and original. It was a giant mouth in the middle of the desert. That's just so creepy and mysterious. Of course that too was unintentional and only done because of limitations. Instead Lucas wanted a generic cliche sandworm.

What's really annoying is that he doesn't realize that these "less is more" situations turned out BETTER than what he originally wanted. He looks at the creative original design of the Sarlac and thinks "but I wanted a sandworm." Most people would think "hey that turned out to be really original and creative and the fans really liked that."

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #30 on:** May 23, 2004, 08:01:14 PM »

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I think that's the real problem with these prequels. A lot of the best stuff in the original trilogy was subtle and we assumed that things were a certain way. The prequels remove the mystery and they reveal that what we assumed was not true was not what Lucas intended. That's a really sucky wake-up call.

That was the main reason Tolkien didn't want to publish The Silmarillion. He said a huge part of the appeal of Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit was their allusions to events that happened far in the best, giving both books a gigantic sense of backstory that was just out of your reach, and it created an immense depth. He was afraid that actually reading those backstories would remove that mystery and diminish the feel of The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings. I find I both agree and disagree with him- to your casual reader I think he's exactly correct, and reading The Silmarillion will dampen the atmosphere of The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings quite a bit. But to huge fans reading The Silmarillion only goes to heighten the sense of depth we get from The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings since we know what is being referenced to in so many passages.

Star Wars followed that same principle- the original trilogy alluded to many things that was left to our imagination, and for many people having been *told* what happened lessens the impact of both trilogies in a way. It also didn't help that Lucas just screwed everything up.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #31 on:** May 23, 2004, 09:15:29 PM »

Ian: Who said only a few people have those midithingies? They're just a person's potential, worth nothing if not tapped.

Gibdo Master · « **Reply #32 on:** May 24, 2004, 08:18:07 AM »

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
You're a Jedi because of these microorganisms that Jedi have but regular people don't.

According to Qui-Gon though, everyone has them. Also, I think who does and doesn't become a Jedi has to do with more than just the Midichlorians. The Council originally rejected Anakin despite him having the highest Midichlorian count they'd seen, after all.

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I think that's the real problem with these prequels. A lot of the best stuff in the original trilogy was subtle and we assumed that things were a certain way. The prequels remove the mystery and they reveal that what we assumed was not true was not what Lucas intended. That's a really sucky wake-up call.

Well, that's sort of the point. If these films didn't change and reveal things, then they would be pretty pointless. George even said before he started making Menace that he wouldn't do these films unless they changed how we look at the original films.

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Hell I even noticed stuff like that in the Special Editions. I assumed that the Wampa was barely shown to build suspense. "Oh sh!t what's that thing that attacked Luke? F*ck it's coming! Get out of there!" Instead it turns out that he was technically unable to show the beast and that's the only reason we got what we got. What turned out to be a suspensful scare was supposed to be a slasher b-movie "scare". Yeah. And I thought the original Sarlac pit was really cool and original. It was a giant mouth in the middle of the desert. That's just so creepy and mysterious. Of course that too was unintentional and only done because of limitations. Instead Lucas wanted a generic cliche sandworm.

What's really annoying is that he doesn't realize that these "less is more" situations turned out BETTER than what he originally wanted. He looks at the creative original design of the Sarlac and thinks "but I wanted a sandworm." Most people would think "hey that turned out to be really original and creative and the fans really liked that."

Well, if you haven't noticed, Star Wars is an extremely visual, special effects laden series. In my opinion, it doesn't really fit with the rest of the movies to not show the Wampa. Even George acknowledged that some felt not showing the Wampa was more suspenseful on the Special Edition VHS interview, but that wasn't how he intended it.

I was fine with adding the beak to the to the Sarlac, since the original looked like a lifeless hole in the ground with a couple tentacles. It didn't really seem all that threatening.

Gibdo Master · « **Reply #33 on:** May 24, 2004, 08:28:44 AM »

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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
That was the main reason Tolkien didn't want to publish The Silmarillion. He said a huge part of the appeal of Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit was their allusions to events that happened far in the best, giving both books a gigantic sense of backstory that was just out of your reach, and it created an immense depth. He was afraid that actually reading those backstories would remove that mystery and diminish the feel of The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings. I find I both agree and disagree with him- to your casual reader I think he's exactly correct, and reading The Silmarillion will dampen the atmosphere of The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings quite a bit. But to huge fans reading The Silmarillion only goes to heighten the sense of depth we get from The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings since we know what is being referenced to in so many passages.

Do you have a quote or something to back that up? Tolkien worked on the thing for years but didn't publish it himself because he died before it was finished. At least that was my understanding of it. I've certainly never heard that he didn't want to publish it.

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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Star Wars followed that same principle- the original trilogy alluded to many things that was left to our imagination, and for many people having been *told* what happened lessens the impact of both trilogies in a way. It also didn't help that Lucas just screwed everything up.

Uh, no. George always planned on making prequel movies. That's why A New Hope was called Episode IV and not Episode I.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #34 on:** May 24, 2004, 09:32:36 AM »

From what I understood Lucas had the entire storyline in place before Ep. 4 even, but didn't necessarily want to make movies out of the first three. Doesn'T mean he doesn't let himself the option.

Gibdo Master · « **Reply #35 on:** May 24, 2004, 01:31:47 PM »

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Originally posted by: BiLdItUp1
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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
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And you know this "fact" how?

George Lucas is writing and directing it.

Exactamundo. The best SW, ESB was directed by Irvin Kershner, and ROTJ, which is enjoyable if flawed, was done by Lawrence Kasdan. With the exception of American Graffiti and possibly ANH, Lucas directed films suck.

Besides, it might have some saving graces if the rumors posted here aren't true...

But you know all this, so I'm gonna go to bed.

Then why the hell do either of you care? If George and his movies suck so much don't watch them and shut up about them. I can't stand you fan boys who take special pleasure in constantly bitching and complaining about movies you hate. It's f@cking childish. What amazes me is that you guys being Nintendo fans should know better. How many of you don't get sick and tired about hearing how "kiddy" Nintendo is or how stupid WW looks and the other loads of crap we Nintendo fans have to hear constantly?

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #36 on:** May 24, 2004, 04:24:16 PM »

Yeah yeah yeah, rail on us if it makes you feel better. I recall you asking the question, though- I was merely answering it, and BiLdItUp1 was merely pointing out the obvious (it ISN'T a fluke that Empire and Jedi are the best SW movies) . I never said I was going to see it, although I might- I was simply pointing out that the movie, in all actuallity, will probably not be very good at all since George Lucas is a horrible writer and director. He is incredibly creative and has magnificent vision, but he's much better managing the big picture rather than the small picture, and it shows in just about every movie he attempts it at. Don't get mad at US because we recognize Lucas's shortcomings- you should be more pissed off at the people that revere him as a god and think he can do no wrong. I'm not saying he can do no good, I just know what his faults are, although apparently he doesn't.

Gibdo Master · « **Reply #37 on:** May 24, 2004, 06:30:12 PM »

My point was is that if you people don't like his work, why do you even care in the first place? Also I really don't care for the attitude that your guys' opinion is fact. Give the movie a chance before you declare it crap. And Again, if that's your attitude then you obviously aren't a fan of these films, so I just don't get why you feel the need to complain about them.

By the way, other than the Emperor/Vader/Luke stuff I think Jedi is pretty terrible. The Jabba stuff went on way too long, and the acting challenges even the prequels for woodenness in the Endor scenes. That's just my opinion though.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #38 on:** May 24, 2004, 06:43:16 PM »

I care because Lucas has amazing vision and he's squandering it trying to bring it to life himself- it just doesn't work that way. I'm a HUGE Star Wars fan- I love everything about it, and I'm just as excited as anyone about the prequels. But when they're made so poorly, I think I not only have a right to care but to complain as well. Lucas is soiling the name of his own creation, and it didn't have to be that way, but it is because of his actions.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #39 on:** May 24, 2004, 06:46:31 PM »

"Then why the hell do either of you care? If George and his movies suck so much don't watch them and shut up about them."

The problem is we can't watch the ones we like anymore. They're no longer sold in stores and for the immediate future will not legally be available on DVD. The only way to enjoy Empire and Jedi now is with Lucas' sh!t splattered on them.

"The Jabba stuff went on way too long, and the acting challenges even the prequels for woodenness in the Endor scenes."

You're the very first person I've ever met to complain about the Jabba part. I love that part of the movie. As for the acting it was never that good in any of the Star Wars movies but Empire and Jedi had an advantage. The lines were not NEARLY as corny and the directors actually had the talent to pick good takes and not edit the f*ck out of everything. The shoddy directing and writing in the prequels just makes the wooden acting stand out more. It's like how the acting in the Star Trek movies is always pretty average but it isn't as noticeable in Star Trek II as it is in the first movie due to the huge difference in the quality of the films themselves.

The Omen · « **Reply #40 on:** May 26, 2004, 04:53:01 PM »

Lucas is like Stephen King. Both suck when Directing, but are great story tellers. Both ruin their own legend gradually by releasing garbage. Especailly King with his TV remakes. (The Shining, for one) Just write the story, and let others adapt it to the screen. How long until Lucas decides to go on TV with some mediocrity? I can see it now...A New Hope, remade for television.

And Gibdo Master, many of us care because Empire is a great film. Not a great Sci fi film. But a great film. And he had less to do with it than any of the others. So now as he soils his image because of his bloated ego, we should just sit back and have no opinion? Having a conflicting opinion doesnt mean we hate him. And our opinion is just as valid as someone who sees no fault with anything he does.

Gibdo Master · « **Reply #41 on:** June 14, 2004, 10:09:10 AM »

Here's another change that you guys might actually like. As you can see, Ian will be replacing the original old woman/monkey eyes composite as the Emperor.

Also does anyone else notice how clean and sharp the image is? If anything else, these movies are going to look gorgeous thanks to the Lowry Digital.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #42 on:** June 14, 2004, 10:49:38 AM »

"As you can see, Ian will be replacing the original old woman/monkey eyes composite as the Emperor."

I am? Cool! Maybe I can land a date with Natalie Portman.

That change actually does make some sense but I still don't like it. The revisionist history nature of the changes is what pisses me off. The old scene may look out of place when viewing the trilogy as a whole but it wasn't a mistake when Empire Strikes Back came out. If he wants to screw around and make a Director's Cut that's fine. I just don't like how he's attempting to remove the original cut from the face of the Earth.

Gibdo Master · « **Reply #43 on:** June 14, 2004, 11:00:35 AM »

Well, I seriously doubt George planned on not getting a different actor later on. The Emperor in Empire was just an old woman with monkey eyes composited in and Clive Revill doing the voice. That obviously wouldn't work for anything beyond a hologram, so it wasn't like George ever felt that was the definitive Emperor.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about the original versions never being released. Along with all the rumors of changes, there's also rumors that the originals will be released in 2007 to commemorate the 30th anniversary of A New Hope's first theatrical release. George isn't going to tell you that though because he doesn't want to downplay the release of his ultimate editions in September.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #44 on:** June 14, 2004, 11:07:50 AM »

"Anyway, I wouldn't worry about the original versions never being released."

Oh the originals will be released on DVD around the same time as these new cuts. George Lucas just won't get any money from them.

Gibdo Master · « **Reply #45 on:** June 14, 2004, 11:21:08 AM »

What?

Ian Sane · « **Reply #46 on:** June 14, 2004, 11:47:00 AM »

*Sigh* I'm refering to piracy. Obviously since there's going to be some big demand for the original cuts bootlegs are going to be pretty common until Lucas releases an official version.

Gibdo Master · « **Reply #47 on:** June 14, 2004, 11:54:28 AM »

So wait, are you saying that George won't make any money off the ultimate editions or the original editions on DVD?

Either way you'd be wrong because the DVDs coming out in September are already seeing record pre-order sales. I'm sure plenty of people will buy any official version of the originals too, especially if it means better quality sound and video.

Syl · « **Reply #48 on:** June 14, 2004, 11:56:25 AM »

I'm a huge fan of starwars, and i have the same stance on this stuff as i do with remakes of games.

If you want to try and recreate it better, go ahead.
If you succeed, we get a better game/movie.
If you don't succeed, then at least i'll always have the original.

Personally, I think the starwars universe is a damn good universe, hence why it has so many incredibly good novels following hte movies. I don't care nearly as much for the movies as I do for the Thrawn Trilogy, The Jedi Academy trilogy, or hell, even some of the stand alone books.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #49 on:** June 14, 2004, 12:34:20 PM »

"So wait, are you saying that George won't make any money off the ultimate editions or the original editions on DVD?"

No I mean that he won't make any money off of bootlegs of the original versions that are sold from 2004 to 2007 before the official release of the originals. In the end I guess he won't care but bootleggers will be cashing in.

Plus I imagine the record setting pre-order sales are largely from ignorant people who are going to put their Star Wars DVD in their player and say "What the f*ck? What's with all this new stuff?" Many won't care, a whole lot will.

At the very least Lucas lost a purchase from me with this retooling BS. I'll buy the original cut but I will NEVER buy the special one. In theory however I might have had the original been released first. Then I would see this as a cool Director's Cut instead of an attempt to rewrite the past.

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Author Topic: More insanity from George Lucas (Read 14707 times)