Author Topic: GameCube Price Drop and New Specs for Japan (Read 20877 times)

android advance · « **Reply #50 on:** March 22, 2004, 11:46:14 AM »

Will the old composite cables that come with the systems (including the SNES, and N64) still work with the new Gamecubes?

and I think that Nintendo should still sell the "old" cubes too, just label the other ones differently and maybe make the "old" ones a little more expensive if they throw in component cables.

and NOA should start giving us alternate nameplates, I can't belive that they are making them on detachable.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #51 on:** March 22, 2004, 11:50:02 AM »

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Will the old composite cables that come with the systems (including the SNES, and N64) still work with the new Gamecubes?

Composite? As in R/F? The same R/F cables have worked with every Nintendo home console since the NES.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #52 on:** March 22, 2004, 11:51:12 AM »

I believe he means the A/V cables. I assume they would remain the same.

anubis6789 · « **Reply #53 on:** March 22, 2004, 11:54:48 AM »

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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
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Afterall, fun is what it is about, isnt it?

You keep giving me easy stuff to use, Cubed. Yes, fun is what it's about- if you'll ignore fun because it doesn't look or sound as good as possible, then yes, you are being shallow. I've really said all I can say, Cubed, and I'm guessing you've said all you can say- let's not spam this thread any more than we already have.

I'm sorry Mouse but if he does not have fun playing a game because it looks bad to him, then that is his perogitive. We all have our own tastes, and for people to say that someone is shallow because they like things to look better, is like calling someone shallow because he likes the cinematography more than a plot in a movie. Both veiws are valid, neither more than the other, because these are forms of entertainment.

anubis6789 · « **Reply #54 on:** March 22, 2004, 12:02:28 PM »

Yes, all of the A/V cables work on each NTSC console.

There are a few exceptions though, the NES does not have the same a/v output as the other Nintendo systems, (The NES2 does not even have A/V out) The SNES2 does not send out an S-video signal for some odd reason, and the N64 does not send out RGB.(which wouldn't matter anyway in NTSC regions unless you wanted to mod it to get a better signal)

I don't know that much about the PAL video standard, so if you live in a PAL region then disregard everything I just said.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #55 on:** March 22, 2004, 12:07:27 PM »

If he does mean RCA cables, then the ones that came with the N64 and Gamecube should work fine.

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I'm sorry mouse but if he does not have fun playing a game because it looks bad to him, then that is his perogitive. We all have our own tastes, and for people to say that someone is shallow because they like things to look better, is like calling someone shallow because he likes the cinematography more than a plot in a movie. Both veiws are valid, neither more than the other, because these are forms of entertainment.

You do have a point, but that's like saying it's his opinion and I should respect that, which is fine, but I don't see why I can't have an opinion about his. I heard it put best on the IMDB boards, oddly enough, by a user named Kosk11348:

"What you don't do is defend your position by saying "Well, that's just my opinion and I can think whatever I want, so nyah!" <sticks out tongue> We are all well aware of your entitlements, but that sort of defensiveness makes you sound as if you use them as an alternative to rational thought. "

Even if I don't respect cubedcanuck's opinion, I at least respect his desire and ability to defend his own view point rather than trying to cop out under the excuse that we all think differently, or whatever. I have every right to argue against Cubed's opinion, and I exercised them just as you're exercising them with me. Kosk11348 had another very good quote pertaining to the situation:

"...don't post your opinion on a public forum if you don't want it to be publicly criticized."

anubis6789 · « **Reply #56 on:** March 22, 2004, 12:13:40 PM »

Very true Mouse, I didn't even think of your opinion of his opinion was an opinion, thanks for showing me the light.

BTW I'm not trying to be sarcastic, sorry if it came off that way.

anubis6789 · « **Reply #57 on:** March 22, 2004, 12:57:50 PM »

BTW if anyone would like to know the pinouts for the analog A/V out for most Nintendo systems, to see what it is capable of, this sight has the info:

Games X

This site also has a lot of other cool information, like how to mod systems for RGB output and how to make your own joysticks, if you are interested anyway.

Nemo · « **Reply #58 on:** March 22, 2004, 03:06:09 PM »

If I had the option of getting a third party game (such as Soul Callibur II) for a system that supports higher resolution and digital surround sound rather than one with lower resolution and analog sound, I'd go for the one that supports the better features. It's the same game (ignoring one exclusive character per game) but one looks and sounds better. Currently, I don't have an HDTV. Additionally, when I chose to get a GameCube rather than an XBox or PS2 I didn't have a surround sound system (but I do now). So, for the time being, any game will end up running in 480i for me. But by the time the next generation starts, I most likely will have an HDTV. If a majority of the games I get will look better on another system, it would be foolish not to get the superior system and better looking versions of the games.

Shecky · « **Reply #59 on:** March 22, 2004, 06:15:28 PM »

I don't get it..... why does everyone think functionality is being removed....
It's just being moved from the D connector to the standard A/V connector. You
still have the component out... Now if NOA decides not to stock/support the new
cable, well then _access_ to this feature has been removed... I think the
NOA update is just a quick response to the Japan announcement, and should be
taken with a grain of salt.

Bloodworth · « **Reply #60 on:** March 22, 2004, 08:18:14 PM »

Shecky is new, but Shecky is wise.

Seriously everyone, this argument is a HUGE over-reaction. If you don't want to trade-in, just import the cable.

I understand mouseclicker's point of view that it's silly not to play a game just because it doesn't have special features -- I mean most of us don't have any problems playing GBA right? Still I prefer to use the most immersive sound option available (HDTV I won't be concerned about until sets are $500) I don't think it would be good for Nintendo to stop progressing with the new technologies. Nintendo has always pushed for the best sound options widely available, and I hope they get Dolby Digital up and running next-gen.

Speaking of DD, I want to clear up some confusion with that. The problem is encoding not decoding Digital that led Factor 5 and Nintendo to choose PLII instead. Decoding is done by the home theater, and as someone noted, is no problem at all. However, encoding the signal is apparently more taxing than PLII, causing a relative delay in the sound. Some Xbox developers have it running in-game though, which is probably a combination of the machine's extra horsepower and some tricky programming. I think that with the next set of processors, it won't be as much of a problem.

anubis6789 · « **Reply #61 on:** March 22, 2004, 08:53:26 PM »

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Speaking of DD, I want to clear up some confusion with that. The problem is encoding not decoding Digital that led Factor 5 and Nintendo to choose PLII instead. Decoding is done by the home theater, and as someone noted, is no problem at all. However, encoding the signal is apparently more taxing than PLII, causing a relative delay in the sound. Some Xbox developers have it running in-game though, which is probably a combination of the machine's extra horsepower and some tricky programming. I think that with the next set of processors, it won't be as much of a problem.

Oh, ok , that makes sense to me. Thanks for the info Bloodworth.

Uncle Rich AiAi · « **Reply #62 on:** March 22, 2004, 10:18:12 PM »

Something popped up in my head about progressive scan support.

How hard is it for a developer to include that feature in games? Is it easy to implement, or time consuming?

KDR_11k · « **Reply #63 on:** March 23, 2004, 05:40:35 AM »

I'd guess it causes a severe performance impact (the only thing I can compare is Homeworld since there's no 480p equivalent in PAL). If your game is near the limit upping the res could kill the framerate.

I vote for a "Canuck vs. Clicker Arena" forum, where CC and MC can talk their arguements out and other users can throw things into the ring...

And, erm, is there any noticeable difference between DD and DPLII?

RareWare · « **Reply #64 on:** March 23, 2004, 06:40:58 AM »

i always thought that the difference was a slight, if at all resolution change (720x480?) and and change to the way it was drawn. I don't remember though for sure..... its been awhile since I've had the problem.

evilnate · « **Reply #65 on:** March 23, 2004, 06:44:51 AM »

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I'd guess it causes a severe performance impact (the only thing I can compare is Homeworld since there's no 480p equivalent in PAL). If your game is near the limit upping the res could kill the framerate.

Actually, I don't believe that there is a performance hit for 480p. Say you have a game that runs at 30fps. In 480i (which is interlaced - regular TV), each one of those frames is made up of two "fields", each containing exactly half of the frame, 240 lines of picture info. However, the Cube renders all 480 lines of picture info in one shot, and then splits it in half for display. In Progressive Scan mode, the Cube bypasses this step and simply displays all 480 lines of picture data at onces (hence the 480p). 480p isn't a higher resolution than 480i, but since the television is actually displaying all the information at once, you get brighter colors and fewer jaggies.

720p and 1080i are higher resolutions, which is why in some XBOX games there is a performance hit when using these modes.

I hope I made some sense here!

thecubedcanuck · « **Reply #66 on:** March 23, 2004, 07:50:29 AM »

"And, erm, is there any noticeable difference between DD and DPLII"

yes, there is a huge differance., and with high end recievers and speakers those differances are magnified even greater.
Sound is clearly delivered to the intended speaker, giving a true sense of direction that the sound is coming from, again on a good system this makes an enormous differance.

"720p and 1080i are higher resolutions, which is why in some XBOX games there is a performance hit when using these modes."

I have never noticed such a hit. I played MLB 2004 all night Saturday in 720P and played flawlessly smooth with a picture quality that blew everyone who was over away.

evilnate · « **Reply #67 on:** March 23, 2004, 08:05:02 AM »

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Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
"720p and 1080i are higher resolutions, which is why in some XBOX games there is a performance hit when using these modes."

I have never noticed such a hit. I played MLB 2004 all night Saturday in 720P and played flawlessly smooth with a picture quality that blew everyone who was over away.

Well, I did say "some"!

Although a buddy of mine's got it for the XBOX, and he was playing it on 720p and I did notice some choppiness over my Cube version. We bumped it down to 480p and voila - the framerate drops went away. At least for that game it's a trade-off, it looks fantastic in 720p, but there are some hiccups, especially on throws to the plate from the outfield. At least from what I saw.

OTOH, Soul Caliber 2 looked great and ran smoothly in 720p. Of course there isn't a true widescreen option when you're running in that mode either.

thecubedcanuck · « **Reply #68 on:** March 23, 2004, 08:23:49 AM »

"Of course there isn't a true widescreen option when you're running in that mode either."

thats ok, the Toshiba I have has the BEST stretch modes available. TW1 stretch looks as if it were true widescreen.

"Well, I did say "some"! Although a buddy of mine's got it for the XBOX, and he was playing it on 720p and I did notice some choppiness over my Cube version. We bumped it down to 480p and voila - the framerate drops went away. At least for that game it's a trade-off, it looks fantastic in 720p, but there are some hiccups, especially on throws to the plate from the outfield. At least from what I saw."

I have to admit I rarely notice frame rate drops unless they are signifigant such as in TRUE CRIME.

evilnate · « **Reply #69 on:** March 23, 2004, 08:29:56 AM »

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Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
"Of course there isn't a true widescreen option when you're running in that mode either."

thats ok, the Toshiba I have has the BEST stretch modes available. TW1 stretch looks as if it were true widescreen.

I'm not sure if a stretch mode would help you with SCII. 720p is a widescreen format, but what Namco did was put black bars on either side of the 4:3 picture when you run in 720p. So the XBOX is outputting a widescreen image, but is only having to render a 4:3 picture. I think that it was a shortcut that Namco did because they couldn't get the game to run smoothly at 720p and 16X9.

Anyway, the reason that I don't think a stretch mode would work is that it's already a widescreen signal. Maybe a zoom, but then you'd loose the top and bottom of the picture.

And that's about as off topic as we can get, I think!

thecubedcanuck · « **Reply #70 on:** March 23, 2004, 08:34:35 AM »

hmmmm, you are correct. I know I cant stretch HD sattalite, it always reverts to NATURAL mode. I never looked at X-box in the same light when I should have. ALl my 720P games are WS so I have never had to think about it.

Uncle Rich AiAi · « **Reply #71 on:** March 23, 2004, 03:22:22 PM »

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I vote for a "Canuck vs. Clicker Arena" forum, where CC and MC can talk their arguements out and other users can throw things into the ring...

I second notion that!

*goes out to buy popcorn*

Berny · « **Reply #72 on:** March 23, 2004, 05:28:36 PM »

I'm allergic to popcorn unless it has exactly one metric ton of butter/ kernel. And I have to eat it with Mello Yello. On a Thursday. When there is no baseball game. But someone should sell tickets for the show.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #73 on:** March 24, 2004, 02:05:53 AM »

30FPS might not be impacted by progscan, but 60FPS will clearly be. Since each frame would have to be only half of the lines, you don't need to render the other half, saving performance. Progscan would demand you to render the WHOLE picture every time, that might be a reason some games don't support it.

evilnate · « **Reply #74 on:** March 24, 2004, 05:07:58 AM »

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
30FPS might not be impacted by progscan, but 60FPS will clearly be. Since each frame would have to be only half of the lines, you don't need to render the other half, saving performance. Progscan would demand you to render the WHOLE picture every time, that might be a reason some games don't support it.

That's not accurate. If you were rendering only half of the lines at 60fps, then you'd only be getting one field per frame and that doesn't work. At 60fps you still have to render both fields (120 fields per second). If you render one field per frame at 60fps, then it actually becomes 30fps. Follow? If the cube is running a game at 60fps, it's rendering 60fps which are then divided into 120 fields for display by an interlaced monitor.

News:

Author Topic: GameCube Price Drop and New Specs for Japan (Read 20877 times)