Topic: New North American (NPD) Sales Thread

[Mario]

September NPD is out!

HARDWARE

GBA $42,023,530 - 527,133
XBX $39,379,728 - 265,067
PS2 $38,046,609 - 253,295
GCN $11,387,827 - 114,789

ALL PLATFORMS
1 GBA POKEMON FIRERED W/ADP $21,065,130 684,283
2 XBX FABLE $29,948,580 604,084
3 GBA POKEMON LEAFGRN W/ADP $17,103,620 556,065
4 PS2 MADDEN NFL 2005 $14,226,930 288,747
5 XBX SW: BATTLEFRONT $13,395,470 275,186
6 PS2 SW: BATTLEFRONT $12,949,310 267,465
7 PS2 STAR OCEAN: TILL END $11,053,760 222,986
8 PS2 NBA LIVE 2005 $8,106,411 203,322
9 PS2 ESPN NFL 2K5 $3,956,769 203,101
10 PS2 TIGER WOODS PGA 2005 $8,297,772 169,657
11 PS2 NASCAR 2005:CHASE CUP $7,129,704 143,611
12 GCN PIKMIN 2 $6,583,169 132,618
13 XBX ESPN NFL 2K5 $2,481,845 128,226
14 XBX BURNOUT 3: TAKEDOWN $6,164,830 124,327
15 GCN WWE DAY OF RECKONING $6,070,188 122,168

GBA
1 POKEMON FIRERED W/ADP $21,065,130 684,283
2 POKEMON LEAFGRN W/ADP $17,103,620 556,065
3 DRAGONBALL Z: BUU'S $1,752,800 59,085
4 YU-GI-OH! RESHEF $1,288,909 42,417
5 SPIDER-MAN:THE MOVIE2 $1,178,754 40,479
6 MARIO BROS 3: MARIO 4 $1,177,994 38,906
7 MARIO VS. DONKEY KONG $987,152 31,746
8 SUPER MARIO CLASSIC $627,966 31,599
9 TEENAGE MUTANT TURTLE $331,434 28,711
10 POKEMON RUBY $909,743 27,327
11 NAMCO MUSEUM $392,329 26,996
12 SONIC ADVANCE 3 $771,602 26,224
13 POKEMON SAPPHIRE $861,662 26,151
14 DISNEY'S FINDING NEMO $507,598 25,557
15 SHREK 2 $686,001 23,765

GCN
1 PIKMIN 2 $6,583,169 132,618
2 WWE DAY OF RECKONING $6,070,188 122,168
3 DONKEY KONGA W/BONGOS $2,053,434 41,932
4 SUPER SMASH BRO MELEE $1,091,327 36,422
5 TALES OF SYMPHONIA $1,680,868 33,852
6 MADDEN NFL 2005 $1,658,302 33,441
7 SONIC MEGA COLLECTION $631,538 32,454
8 X-MEN: LEGENDS $1,466,533 29,463
9 SPONGEBOB: BATTLE $468,156 23,403
10 MARIO KART: DOUBLE $1,108,446 22,374
11 SOUL CALIBUR II $444,007 22,200
12 SPIDER-MAN:THE MOVIE2 $983,515 20,671
13 SONIC ADVENTURE 2 $396,458 19,796
14 TONY HAWK UNDERGROUND $390,054 19,553
15 SUPER MONKEY BALL 2 $381,227 19,198

PS2
1 MADDEN NFL 2005 $14,226,930 288,747
2 SW: BATTLEFRONT $12,949,310 267,465
3 STAR OCEAN: TILL END $11,053,760 222,986
4 NBA LIVE 2005 $8,106,411 203,322
5 ESPN NFL 2K5 $3,956,769 203,101
6 TIGER WOODS PGA 2005 $8,297,772 169,657
7 NASCAR 2005:CHASE CUP $7,129,704 143,611
8 SLY 2:BAND OF THIEVES $4,742,280 119,539
9 DEF JAM: FIGHT FOR NY $5,720,625 115,861
10 STREET FIGHTER ANNIV $3,328,188 111,680
11 BURNOUT 3: TAKEDOWN $5,198,917 104,545
12 STREET RACING SYNDCTE $4,840,836 97,316
13 ESPN NHL 2K5 $1,897,349 96,566
14 SHELLSHOCK: NAM '67 $4,774,473 95,837
15 X-MEN: LEGENDS $4,126,100 82,905

XBX
1 FABLE $29,948,580 604,084
2 SW: BATTLEFRONT $13,395,470 275,186
3 ESPN NFL 2K5 $2,481,845 128,226
4 BURNOUT 3: TAKEDOWN $6,164,830 124,327
5 MADDEN NFL 2005 $5,091,888 102,886
6 ESPN NHL 2K5 $1,922,700 97,983
7 TIGER WOODS PGA 2005 $4,425,786 90,158
8 HALO $2,609,295 87,529
9 NBA LIVE 2005 $3,266,275 81,958
10 ESPN NBA 2K5 $1,599,382 80,437
11 X-MEN: LEGENDS $3,817,020 76,829
12 STREET RACING SYNDCTE $3,498,198 70,415
13 NASCAR 2005:CHASE CUP $3,467,849 69,852
14 DEF JAM: FIGHT FOR NY $3,314,719 67,136
15 SHELLSHOCK: NAM '67 $2,730,086 54,837

* GBA is doing very well, it's crazy, I find it strange how so many people bought Pokemon Fire Red over Leaf Green though, I thought Leaf Green would sell more because it's "new", I guess people are afraid of new things
* Impressive sales by Xbox, outselling the PS2 for the third month in a row.
* Amazing sales from Fable, I didn't really expect that.
* Terrible GCN sales, it continues to fall way behind.
* Pikmin 2 not doing as well as it should, considering the incredible quality of the game.
* Donkey Konga came out at the end of the month, and word of mouth should help it sell better and better over the next few months, so I wouldn't call it a bomb just yet...

Geez, looking at the sales of those GCN games it almost looks like it's a dead system..

[Chongman]

consumer whores...

c'mon nintendo!!!



fable was a let down personally...I mean, good game but way too short and linear...I bet the number if trade ins for it are astounding

Hopefully sales will start to pick up somewhere around thanksgiving

[Mario]

I'm very sad at Pikmin 2's sales, it should have been THE game of September. It got amazingly glowing reviews and had a fairly large ad campaign, and it's a Nintendo first party game. What more could you ask for?

Look at some other recently released "big" GC games

- Zelda: Four Swords = disappointing sales
- Wario Ware GC = huge bomb
- MGS: Twin Snakes = bomb
- Pokemon Colloseum = sold pretty good, but its a crap game so it's going to leave a sour taste in peoples mouths and turn them off the GC

Has GC software simply stopped selling? At the GCs low price there is no excuse not to own one. What is going on? It doesn't make sense, i've come to the conclusion it's either

a) People are idiots blinded by hype (example - Fables sales)

or

b) Nintendo really SUCKS at marketing and letting people know the GC even exists. I can't comment on the situation in the US because I don't live there, but that's the main reason it isn't selling well in Australia and the UK.

"What company, right now, is driving category sales? If you said someone other than Nintendo, you're wrong. We have momentum, have had it since late last year; and if you don't feel it yet, you will -- I'll promise you that." -Reggie

Don't break your promise Reggie ;_;

[Deguello]

"Amazing sales from Fable, I didn't really expect that."

That depresses me to no end.

[Ian Sane]

"Has GC software simply stopped selling?"

Realistically I think yes it has.  The Cube has reached the point of no return regarding public perception.  It's a loser console like the N64.  It's at a point where no one feels it's problems are going to improve and thus because of that opinion it's not.  Think of how the N64 was five years ago in 1999.  At that point it's major games just weren't getting same kind of coverage that earlier titles like Mario 64 and Goldeneye got.  The hardcore were all that were paying attention anymore and thus game sales weren't as hot.  Compare Perfect Dark's sales to Goldeneye's or Majora's Mask's to Ocarina of Time's.

Third party support is getting pretty thin and the gaming media isn't paying as much attention.  The PS2 is number one and the Xbox is constantly growing (it's beating monthly PS2 sales now).  For Nintendo this gen's console race is over so less people are paying attention.  There's always the possibility of some new game causing a phenomenon Pokemon-style but that's a rare occurance.

Pikmin SHOULD in a perfect world be one the most celebrated games this gen due to it's uniqueness and thus the sequel should have been as highly anticipated as the big sequels coming out this November.

"Nintendo really SUCKS at marketing and letting people know the GC even exists."

I'll agree with that.  Even if things improve now it's too late.  Good marketing was needed in the first year.  It wasn't there and the Cube was dug into a hole it can't get out of.  Nintendo's best bet right now is to ensure that the last few years of the Cube's life see many classic games, even if most people don't notice them, to keep their fans interested in the Revolution (something Sega failed to do).  Then for the Rev they have to completely overhaul their marketing ideas because they're out-of-date and out-of-touch.  Good marketing on the Cube from here on in won't really do much but it can't hurt and would give them practice.

And they absolutely must not do what they did with the N64 where they stopped releasing titles for the old system months before the new system arrives.  The gap just causes you to fall out of the spotlight.  Plus if fans are going to wait for months there's more pressure to deliver at launch.  I mean we waited six months or so for Luigi's Mansion?  Come on.  No wonder the Cube didn't go anywhere.

[Deguello]

"It's a loser console like the N64."

That's something I don't get.  The N64 being very successful (financially) at number 2, is considered a loser.  The GC being very successful (financially) at number 2 (worldwide) or 3 or whatever, is considered a loser.  Why is the Xbox not considered a loser, being not so successful (again, financially) at number 2 or 3?  Do we go easy on rookies or something?

EDIT:

"And they absolutely must not do what they did with the N64 where they stopped releasing titles for the old system months before the new system arrives."

Oh Oh.  I wouldn't worry about that.  I think they said the Revolution will be backwards compatible, right?

[MaleficentOgre]

they said gamecube would push console online capabilities. anyway look at pokemon kickin' ass still.  Even as a rehash of a 7/8 year old game it has selling power.

[Ian Sane]

"Why is the Xbox not considered a loser, being not so successful (again, financially) at number 2 or 3? Do we go easy on rookies or something?"

I think it's because MS has gone up in the industry.  Microsoft's market share in the game industry has grown since the Xbox launched.  Nintendo however used to be number one and have thus been going DOWN these last few gens.  It has to do with people's attitudes as well.  Third parties aren't dropping Xbox support like they are with the Cube.  Rental stores don't have weak non-existant Xbox selections like they do with the Cube.  The mainstream media doesn't ignore the Xbox like they ignore the Cube.

I think the perception is to not be considered a failure you either have to be number 1 in units sold or look like you could seriously challenge for that title.

[Deguello]

I'm still seeing it as a double standard.

The myth is that the market can support 3 formats.  It can't.  2 of the 3 formats are succesful, leaving a third that is costing its  company billions.  That 3rd was the Saturn, The Dreamcast and the Xbox.

"Third parties aren't dropping Xbox support like they are with the Cube."

They would drop the Xbox too if Microsoft were not subsidizing their potential failures.

"I think the perception is to not be considered a failure you either have to be number 1 in units sold or look like you could seriously challenge for that title. "

I hope you don't think Microsoft can seriously challenge Sony.  The only reason the Xbox has been above the Ps2 these past few months is because the Ps2 has hit market saturation.

To Me, the only way Nintendo could ever be the top again is to come back in exactly the same fashion as they went down.   Some times the only way to succeed is to rely on the misfortunes of your rivals.  Sony is going to have to screw up.  And with their attitude towards the PSP, it looks like that will come any day now.  But really, I don't care.  I'm enjoying the ride and the good games.  My only concern is that Nintendo should be making a profit on all current ventures, and they are.  So I'm good.  Pikmin2 isn't outselling Madden?  Don't care.  Sony and Xbox "Hip"? Big deal.  Media outlets like oh... MSNBC favor MS and Sony?  Couldn't care less.  All Nintendo has to do for me is exist.

Oh and it seems like the Gameboy is tooling both of Nintendo's competitors combined.

[Ian Sane]

"I hope you don't think Microsoft can seriously challenge Sony."

I don't but I think others do.  Not like this gen but in the future.  Nintendo doesn't have that potential in most people's eyes.  They just make too many blunders.

Another way to think of it may be the hopes fans had going in and whether or not they were accurate.

PS2:  Fans assumed Sony would hold onto the lead.  They were right.
Xbox:  Fans went in assuming that the Xbox would gain in popularity and Microsoft would carve out their own chunk of the market.  They were right.
Gamecube:  Fans assumed that the N64's "failure" was a fluke and now that Nintendo was using optical discs and had companies like Rare, Silicon Knights, and Retro Studios working on more mature content that Nintendo would learn from their past mistakes and would become a serious threat again on route to someday reclaiming their top spot in the later generations to come.  They were wrong.

The Xbox did better than people expected and the Cube did worse.  So that's why the Cube is seen as a failure.

[mantidor]

on another forum an xbox fan claimed that M$ was finally doing good financially with the xbox, was he smoking somehting or it is true? Ive been trying to find reliable sources but so far I havent find any.

[cubiot]

"I hope you don't think Microsoft can seriously challenge Sony. The only reason the Xbox has been above the Ps2 these past few months is because the Ps2 has hit market saturation."

Yes, It can, and probably will challenge Sony in the next generation.
I honestly see nintendo becoming a sold only in Japan console maker at some point.

AS for Fable. It is a very good game, just way to short. I didnt mind paper mario either, except I dont like the battle system at all. I find turn based systems a chore.

[Deguello]

I don't take stock in fan assumptions as an indicator of success.  Because... I'm a fan, and I think Nintendo did fine.  I think Microsoft failed because I am forbidden to use their Xbox Live service which they throw heaps money into.  They concentrate solely on this online thing that I can't even use.  History won't be kind to the Xbox when half of the games worth playing require an online service that won't be there later and is denied to some people.  And and the Xbox didn't have any fans in the beginning, Ian.

And no mantidor, MS themselves pretty much confirmed that they will not make a profit on the Xbox.  So it was a foot-in-the-door exercise that can be interpreted as a shameless power grab.

EDIT: "I honestly see nintendo becoming a sold only in Japan console maker at some point."

That's uhhh... That's a pretty dumb and ill-informed prediction.  Why do you think that way?  When Nintendo makes oodles of cash in the North American market?

[Ian Sane]

"And the Xbox didn't have any fans in the beginning, Ian."

Sure it did.  When the Xbox launched there were already fansites like TeamXbox.  The fanbase's fandom was based on nothing really since there was no product yet but there were fans even if it made no sense to be one for a completely unproven console.

[Deguello]

Damn my logic, then.  

[cubiot]

"EDIT: "I honestly see nintendo becoming a sold only in Japan console maker at some point."

That's uhhh... That's a pretty dumb and ill-informed prediction. Why do you think that way? When Nintendo makes oodles of cash in the North American market? "

I think that way because of declining sales numbers in North America each of the last two generations for Nintendo. If sales continue to decline, the "oodles" of cash as you call it will follow suit. I also wonder just how much of Nintendo's NA profit comes from the GBA versus the cube (consoles). I would guess that the GBA accounts for the bulk of NA profits.

I would also like to comment and ask a few questions on the x-box live issue.  

Why do you think the service wont be there later?

AS for history. I believe that many people who play games on live, myself included, dont expect a game to have a lot of longevity. The games I play on live, I play often. Once they are done, or I have lost interest in them I move on. I rarely ever go back to those games. I dont look at this as a problem because I expect it going in.  I simply trade games in a lot.

As for people being denied service. I am not sure I get what you are saying. IS it because the service isnt free?
Again I believe many people who use LIVE, know all this before they make the commitment. From the people I play with and talk to, we seem to have very little, if any complaints at all.

[couchmonkey]

Whether or not Xbox's popularity is due to PS2 market saturation, the fact is that the Xbox is the console outselling PS2, and GameCube is in a fairly distant third.  
I think Nintendo really failed at marketing Pikmin 2.  I didn't see a single ad for it, while I can hardly escape the freaking Fable ads.  I have a friend who owns all three consoles, and guess which game he wants?  Not Pikmin 2.  It seems like Nintendo's marketing for GameCube has been even weaker than usual lately: I've been seeing a few GBA ads, but Sunday during the Simpsons marked the first time I had seen a GCN ad in about a month.

[Rhoq]

Nintendo's marketing is "spotty" at best. It seems like there can be a period of 2 or 3 weeks where I can see a GameCube advertisement during what seems like every commercial break (at least as frequently as PS2 & X-Box ads). Then for no apparent reason, those commericals stop for a month and then start back-up again. Of course the PS2 and X-Box ads never seem to stop.

Nintendo lacks consistancy and it's a shame. I love the 'Cube, but Nintendo really messed-up this generation - especially by allowing the 3rd party developers to just up and leave without at least trying to persuade to continue support.

[soundwave5]

The only reason the XBox isn't a stronger no.2 is because XBox has no sway in Japan currently. In Europe and North America though, it's a platform which is very much on the rise and the definite no.2 machine.

600k for Fable in one month are blockbuster numbers, Halo 2 is going to be huge. Star Wars Battlefront sold more on the XBox than the PS2 according to the NPD. The thing about the XBox is software sales are very high. They're waaaay up from last year.

The problem with GameCube is software sales are low overall. Not just for Pikmin 2, but the platform as a whole. GCN owners just do not buy as many games per user as the PS2/XBox do, which makes the GCN seem more like a niche platform. The other problem is, the bulk of GCN software sales are Nintendo games, so you can't really hold it against third parties for not supporting the system as much. Not only do GCN owners not buy as many games, but when they do, it tends to be Nintendo-published stuff.

I think Nintendo is more focused on the DS being successful (and it should be) this holiday. It's important at this point that Nintendo not show any weaknesses in the portable sector. The GBA SP is tearing up the charts. The GameCube, honestly I think is a system that's just treading water at this point. Nintendo gave it a good shot, they just got caught with not enough of the types of games people want nowadays and made far too many mistakes to seriously contend.  

I think you will see Nintendo in the future becoming a different kind of company, perhaps expanding more into an anime/entertainment company. You can kind of see them leaning this way already with the investment in Bandai, the seperation of Pokemon into its own company (handles merchandising, Pokemon retail outlets, etc.), and Yamauchi pushing the company into feature film animation.

The thing is the next generation console race is probably going to be even tougher than this one was. Sony and Microsoft are probably going to pull out all the stops to beat each other, it's just not going to get any easier. There's definitely a chance even if Revolution is well designed and corrects many of the mistakes made with the GCN (as the GCN corrected many of the N64 errors), that Nintendo may still continue to lose ground in the console market.





 

[Mario]

Quote
The only reason the Xbox has been above the Ps2 these past few months is because the Ps2 has hit market saturation.

I disagree, there has been reports of shortages of PS2s the past few months because Sony want to get rid of them all so they can replace it with PSTwo. PSTwo + GTA SA should send PS2 sales soaring back up again to maybe even double Xboxs. And about the market saturation point, PS2 still hasn't even outsold the PSX and I believe it's got a long way to go still.

And someone asked for lifetime SSBM sales vs lifetime Halo sales in another thread that was locked, well here's Halos compared to every Nintendo published GC titles lifetime sales

Halo: 3,616,009

Super Smash Bros. Melee: 2,438,729
Mario Kart: Double Dash!!: 1,686,033
Super Mario Sunshine: 1,575,109
The Wind Waker: 1,496,631
Luigi's Mansion: 1,467,320
Metroid Prime: 1,195,256
Mario Party 4: 946,582
Animal Crossing: 779,227
Star Fox Adventures: 776,397
Mario Party 5: 750,387
Pokemon Colosseum: 669,294
Pikmin: 654,353
Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour: 389,802
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: 373,623
Wave Race: 325,645
Kirby Air Ride: 288,918
Eternal Darkness: 273,703
Four Swords Adventures: 252,461
F-Zero GX: 252,354
Wario World: 223,664
Preview Disk: 170,513
NBA Courtside 2002: 157,754
Pokemon Channel: 152,798
Custom Robo: 138,456
Pikmin 2: 132,618
Magical Mirror: 114,085
Wario Ware Inc: 87,633
1080 Avalanche: 87,031
Donkey Konga: 41,932

And here are some examples of games that sold better on GC:

Mega Man Anniversary (GC): 169,505
Mega Man Anniversary (PS2): 162,677

Mega Man X Command Mission (GC): 12,473
Mega Man X Command Mission (PS2): 9,346

Viewtiful Joe (GC): 260,986
Viewtiful Joe (PS2): 32,690

Soul Calibur (GC): 687,141
Soul Calibur (PS2): 630,213
Soul Calibur (Xbox): 447,105

If anyone has any requests i'll post the numbers.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Tales of Symphonia?

[Mario]

Tales of Symphonia: 219,531

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Not bad, given the extent of marketing.

[nolimit19]

nintendos next console will out preform xbox2 (its my prediction)

[Deguello]

"I think that way because of declining sales numbers in North America each of the last two generations for Nintendo. If sales continue to decline, the "oodles" of cash as you call it will follow suit. I also wonder just how much of Nintendo's NA profit comes from the GBA versus the cube (consoles). I would guess that the GBA accounts for the bulk of NA profits."

Trust me it would have to decline a whole hell of a lot before Nintendo starts losing money.  Despite media and fan blathering, the GameCube is still a successful venture.  Nintendo makes money on it, the Gamecube.  It's just not as successful as it could have been.

"Why do you think the service wont be there later?"

Because the service for the Dreamcast isn't here now.  I highly doubt MS will keep Xbox Live up in the next generation, especially since there are all defensive about backwards compatibility, since it is such a drain on their revenue.

"AS for history. I believe that many people who play games on live, myself included, dont expect a game to have a lot of longevity. The games I play on live, I play often. Once they are done, or I have lost interest in them I move on. I rarely ever go back to those games. I dont look at this as a problem because I expect it going in. I simply trade games in a lot."

Well, that's a difference of opinion.  If a game is really really good, I never lose interest.

"As for people being denied service. I am not sure I get what you are saying. IS it because the service isnt free?
Again I believe many people who use LIVE, know all this before they make the commitment. From the people I play with and talk to, we seem to have very little, if any complaints at all."

Denied as in it is broadband-only and I have 56k.  This may come as a shock to you but not everybody in the world has access to broadband.