Author Topic: Star Trek  (Read 18392 times)

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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #100 on: September 11, 2019, 12:26:54 PM »
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #101 on: September 11, 2019, 04:33:21 PM »
I hate Justin Beiber*.  Therefore, I go out of my way to read articles that I see about him.

*I don't really hate Beiber, I don't know a thing about him and couldn't name a song if asked.  He just came up in discussion in a meeting today.

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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #102 on: October 05, 2019, 06:50:11 PM »
https://youtu.be/FySrgrKJguE

Dang it, they pulled the Riker card and now I'm getting all the feels!

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #103 on: December 09, 2019, 04:25:37 AM »
It’s been a tough week for Star Trek. First Dorothy Fontana, a pioneering writer and one of the most influential people in shaping early Star Trek, died. Then today Rene Auberjonois passed away as well. Odo was one of the best characters on the best Star Trek series, and his portrayal of him was perfect, and especially impressive given all the makeup he had to give it through.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #104 on: May 16, 2020, 02:58:43 AM »
At the risk of kicking this hornets nest of a thread, today CBS All Access announced a new upcoming Star Trek series on the service that's obviously failing miserably with them, Star Trek: Strange New Worlds. Ethan Peck, Rebecca Romijn, and Anson Mount will reprise their roles as Spock, Number One, and Captain Christopher Pike from season 2 of Discovery in what's meant to be a more traditional Star Trek series set on the Enterprise 10 years before Kirk took command. Anson Mount's Pike was one of the best parts of that season of Discovery, and this type of show had been rumored for some time, so I'm happy to see it confirmed.

https://news.avclub.com/anson-mount-rebecca-romijn-and-ethan-peck-lead-new-st-1843483391
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #105 on: May 16, 2020, 07:02:35 AM »
lol Kurtzman and Goldsman. Abandon all hope who ye enter.

Pike is an example of mediocrity going a long way in a dumpster fire. It's DOA even if actually gets made. Announcing is cheap.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #106 on: May 16, 2020, 09:36:06 AM »
Announcing an expensive new SciFi series right now is a pretty big risk, especially after Picard & Discovery Season 2 seem to have been near-universally derided by the Trek fanbase.

As for me, I didn't watch the 1st 2 NuTrek series, and while a more traditional Trek series does appeal to me...I just don't care about the adventures of this crew. At best, they would have an even bigger continuity problem than Enterprise had of trying to surprise the audience with new and amazing things...that just so happened to never be mentioned ever again. At least Enterprise had a bigger time window & existing lore to mask the issue.

Honestly, I think the only way I could be interested in modern Trek again is if they wiped the events of Picard and Star Trek '09 from continuity and set a new series post-TNG/DS9.

I also just have no interest in CBS All Access in general, and considering they're apparently restructuring the service it seems that's a somewhat widespread problem.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #107 on: May 16, 2020, 09:58:26 AM »
On the subject of new Trek shows, I'm surprised that CBS hasn't made a series yet about the one event in Star Trek history that's been an albatross around its neck since the beginning; the fucking Eugenics Wars. It's a huge, world-changing event eventually leading to the birth of the Federation...that the entirety of Star Trek just keeps its head down & walks quickly past. As the 90s series kept doing episodes sent in *Current Year*, this just got increasingly ridiculous since the stories always took place before the Eugenics Wars. Even First Contact didn't really want to talk about them, and that was set immediately after them.

It made sense why the 90s shows didn't want to address it, as the franchise is supposed to be optimistic. However, given CBS' murder & explosion boner in modern Trek, why not just bite the bullet & finally tell the story of the Eugenics Wars?
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #108 on: May 16, 2020, 10:11:28 AM »
I think the obvious answer is Eugenics is such an evil and disgusting thing, nobody wants to touch it.  It is probably why the Wars were called that to begin with...lets add the two worst things we can think of together...Eugenics and War.  Is there any clues on what the wars were supposed to be about?  I mean the only things I can think of...is a war to either A) Purify the universe with a supreme alien species be it Romulan or Human or another alien species...heck it would be really surprising if if it was Vulcan...a single supreme alien species is only logical.  I agree, Trek should never go backwards, as interesting as characters like Pike could be...you can't put any of them at risk when you know how they die in the original timeline.  It just isn't exciting...its like watching Obi-won duel in Episode 1...you know he can't die. 

I do think a short series telling how about a War and then how the Federation was able to smooth out the ridges and make a functioning optimistic universe that is the Star Trek Universe would be interesting.  Almost as interesting as a series set in the future where that hopeful federation was destroyed and people are trying to rebuild back to that ideal but the world and trust is too fundamentally broken to go back there. 

I love the Trek Universe, but to me it died after Deep Space Nine. 

Offline broodwars

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #109 on: May 16, 2020, 10:44:20 AM »
The short version of the Eugenics War is that it's essentially where Kahn came from. There was a race on Earth to develop a superior version of humanity, followed by those Augmented humans going to war with the rest of humanity. The war devastated the Earth, leading to its condition in First Contact. This war is why human augmentation was outlawed by the Federation, which is why Bashir had so many problems on DS9.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #110 on: May 16, 2020, 05:01:21 PM »
Wrong war Spak Spang.

The Eugenics War is pre-warp Earth. It's Khan's origin story, a story already told. No aliens, no Federation. The Federation wasn't really a thing till the end of Enterprise. The only reason to touch it is if you have a death pewpew boner which the current "Creators" have a very hard one for. iirc that is not WW3 that leads to First Contact.

It's a bad idea to go there not because of the subject matter, it's another prequel based off a handful of lines. They have a very high difficulty and the current team sure as hell can't make it work. The Clairece Sterling pilot is said to be super bad and you know all the unending dire af "Trek".

I do not know where they got the money from for Pike. Viacom is facing serious debt issues which would have been manageable for not the Chinese nasty. CBS All Access is facing a heavy duty retooling/re-branding very soon possibly dumping Pike into Limbo. Maybe this is another Star Wars situation with someone going on a fishing expedition. No way they are getting money from Viacom. Who is the sucker this time?

Oh for those thinking this is some sort of return to Trek, Pike is holding a gun. We come in peace shoot to kill.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #111 on: May 16, 2020, 07:05:03 PM »
Announcing an expensive new SciFi series right now is a pretty big risk, especially after Picard & Discovery Season 2 seem to have been near-universally derided by the Trek fanbase.

Don’t let the internet echo chamber trick you into coming to this conclusion. Yes, a very vocal segment of the fan base doesn’t like them, but there are a lot of people who did too.

Oh for those thinking this is some sort of return to Trek, Pike is holding a gun. We come in peace shoot to kill.

Right, they never once carried guns in the earlier shows. Classic oohhboy, reading way too much into minor things because he’s predisposed to hating this.

As for the Eugenics Wars, there’s a great pair of novels by Greg Cox that do a really good job of fitting them into real world history. A miniseries type of thing using them as a framework could be cool.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #112 on: May 16, 2020, 07:46:17 PM »
Yeah, the complaint about Pike carrying around a phaser seems rather silly, considering they're standard equipment in ever Trek series & movie. There are many reasons to find this new series suspect, but that one's just looking for something to hate.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #113 on: May 16, 2020, 10:45:57 PM »
Thanks for the information.  Yeah, that sounds boring and uninteresting.  I was taking a guess because I didn't know much of the lore around that.  Basically it sounds like Star Trek's version of the Clone Wars...it can be left with no explanation and be fine as a historical event. 

Well, I think TOS always had guns because of the potential of hostility on planets and they are still an army.  I think Next Generation did a better job since Phasers didn't look like guns (Then again they might in that universe) So when carrying them it didn't seem like they had weapons.  If my memory serves there were many away team parties that never carried weapons with them, and that really fits in with Star Trek. 

Offline oohhboy

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #114 on: May 17, 2020, 03:08:21 AM »
So you are telling me to ignore the gun in the very first bit of media we get from a team that is infamous for pewpew. There is a Face Eating Leopard Party you might be interested in voting for.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #115 on: May 17, 2020, 04:10:40 AM »
I'm sure I could find countless promo images for every Star Trek series with one of the main characters holding a phaser. Reading that much into that is just silly, but I guess I should expect that from you.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #116 on: May 17, 2020, 08:46:15 AM »
Ran your little poster experiment. Well what do you know! The posters reflect what is in the movie! It's like they are related. Lets make it fun.

Contain violence?

TMP: No
Khan: Yes
Spock: Yes
Voyage home: No
Final: No (People on horse violent?)
Undiscovered: Yes

The marketing media is inextricably interlinked as they are there to see the contents. So yeah, meta Checkov's gun.

Lets continue.

Generations: No
First Contact: No (Resistance is Futile and ominous count?)
Insurrection: No (Evil face?)
Nemesis: Yes (Knife)

2009: 50/50 First poster isn't, Violent poster is on first row on google search
Darkness: Yes
Beyond: Yes

Then add team pew pew body of work and the conclusion is foregone. It's like you are telling me Michael Bay isn't going to do explosions when there clearly is an explosion on the poster. Come. on.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #117 on: May 17, 2020, 09:20:28 AM »
OK, let's draw this experiment out to something more practical: the original TV series promos. No BMM Links because I'm having to do this on my phone.

Here's the official promotional trailer for the very 1st episode of TOS. My...are those phasers I see?


What about TNG? Yep, I see ships firing at each other and phasers actually bring fired as well as carried.


DS9's turn. Well, no phasers, but we have tons of ships shooting at each other and blowing up, hand to hand combat, and explosions.


Voyager's turn. Surprisingly tame considering the most bloodthirsty captain in Starfleet is on board. But yes, we still have phasers & ships firing at each other.


Finally, Enterprise. Yep, we've got phasers, and they're being fired.


It's almost like phasers & ship combat are a common staple of Star Trek promotional work, regardless of how bloodthirsty & explosion-happy the series itself is.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #118 on: May 17, 2020, 10:54:29 AM »
You are comparing Trailers to Posters. That is out of scope.

Also of course they are going to show the action bit in a trailer. If there is comedic violence in a comedy they are going to show that. Trailers can run an arbitrary amount of time so out of sheer probability you are going to have some violence. Even Orville Trailer plays to this.

You wouldn't blink an eye to the action shown to old Trek you knew it wasn't hapless pewpew BOOM kill everything. Team pewpew is nothing but pewpew and has yet to prove themselves otherwise. How many episodes, body count, how many different series does it take to show Trek is nothing but a marketing label to them? Nobody would read anything into the gun if not for the expectations they themselves built up.

Hence Face Eating Leopard Party.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #119 on: May 17, 2020, 11:49:50 AM »
I'm not a big trekkie but all this hubbub around Pike and Number One actually had me doing research and I discovered the original "The Cage" pilot for ToS that wasn't accepted and actually centered on those characters. I found a version and watched and, huh, I really liked it! Hopefully basing a new show around those characters bears fruit.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #120 on: May 17, 2020, 12:35:38 PM »
You are going to be so disappointed.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #121 on: May 17, 2020, 04:31:53 PM »
Speaking of disappointment, don't fall for the bait, guys,
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #122 on: May 17, 2020, 05:14:50 PM »
Speaking of bait, how was Picard? There sure was an unspeakable amount of excitement! Such quality! Surely they won't destroy such an iconic character? right? RIGHT!?

It's ok, you can say where it bad touch you. People finally accepted that for Star Wars.

On the bright side we will get another year of entertaining leaks.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #123 on: May 17, 2020, 05:35:26 PM »
To be honest Picard didn’t really grab me. I didn’t hate it, and I didn’t think it destroyed his character by any means, but I’m way more interested in Discovery season 3 than Picard season 2.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #124 on: May 17, 2020, 09:34:42 PM »
The point is Star Trek has always been an adventure show. So there is always a threat or a mystery and danger. The point isn’t the fighting. The point is the overall world is a hopeful positive future where mankind has surpassed many of the more trivial problems for survival and peace. Now we only have these real specific threats and problems.  But the overall quality of life is pretty stable in the Federation.