Topic: Predict which Wii U games will be considered timeless classics in the future

[supermario2k]

The console is in it's twilight years. There might be a handful of games between now and NX launching but we all know it is pretty much dead at this point. So here is a change of pace from all the NX speculation that is getting nowhere productive.

I will list the games that I personally feel, based on past experiences and previous console generations, that will become timeless classics gamers will look back upon fondly. I am limiting this to games that are exclusive to the console or where the Wii U versions is a true exclusive in that it has stuff none of the others have but isn't missing stuff the others have. I am personally discounting digital only games for the most part unless I see them as having a lasting impact. Partly because I am not convinced they will be available forever. If a gamer in ten years can't gain access to a game it will be hard for them to go back and check it out.

This is not another top ten list, please don't let it turn into that. I am hoping to get people to discuss the merits of these games as having a lasting impact on the world of gaming. I am even going to list games I personally don't like but do believe they will be remembered fondly on the Wii U in the future.

Feel free to chime in with your own list, bash my list as irrational or just argue endlessly over what makes a good Nintendo game.

Sadly unlike previous console generations I am not seeing that many I think will be truly timeless classics. But I think there are a few.


Super Mario 3D World

- I think this is a given. Pretty much every mainstream Mario game appeals to the masses. These are still the flagship games that drive people to Nintendo every generation.

Captain Toad

- I see this game as gaining traction in the years to come. I think many just saw it as a spin off to Super Mario 3D World, but Mario was just a spin off of Donkey Kong at one time, and the game play was very neat. I hope they make more.

Wonderful 101

- I think this was game was overlooked upon it's initial run which will make people talk about it in the years to come. I suspect that it will find a cult following in the near future.

Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze

- I see no reason why one of the best DKC games ever won't be remembered fondly. I think in time it's importance will grow to myth-like proportions and gamers will point to it as proof the Wii U was underrated.

NES Remix 1 & 2

- I don't think the importance of these two games should be over looked. They were the first time in a very long time that Nintendo made an effort to mix up their NES properties outside of All stars and the occasional remix of Dr. Mario. I think these two games made up a large part of what owning a Wii U meant in the early months and they were big draws for the loyalists and the retro gamers.

Splatoon

- Years from now at the annual competitive gaming Splatoon tournament gamers will look back on the original and see it as a point where Nintendo revolutionized the squad based shooter forever. I see this game evolving in years to come to be a regular staple in the Nintendo library and the Wii U original will gain cult status as a result.

Hyrule Warriors

- Anything with Zelda and friends is going to be remembered fondly. This is no exception as it not only combines retro gaming with a franchise Nintendo gamers are not familiar with, in many ways it is a fresh take on the Zelda formula at a time where the franchises future was somewhat uncertain. I think this game will go down in history more favorably than Four Swords Adventures before it.

Rayman Legends

- I think once the anger from the supposed bait and switch dies down gamers will forgive Ubisoft and point to this game as something that could have been spectacular on Wii U and come to realize, it was spectacular. It will gain a cult following in years to come as the game some people point to to remind gamers what could have been had it remained exclusive. It wouldn't have mattered but the myth behind it will grow I suspect.

Sonic Lost Worlds

- Good or bad the game will be remembered fondly as all past Sonic games were. I see it being compared to the next really low point in the franchise and gamers looking back fondly when the games were "still good" and putting this up there with Sonic Adventure once nostalgia kicks in and the games flaws are replaced by, remembering the good old days. It will always have it's detractors though.

Nintendo Land

- This game was infamous for a very long time but I think that in years to come people will look back and judge it a little more fairly. It was a poor game to launch the console with but not a bad game overall. It won't gain cult status or mythical legends but people will come out and defend it once they start to look past how sour it tasted that first year.

Bayonetta 2

- This games legendary status will be like Eternal Darkness, as time goes the games following will become more cult-like and it will become the stuff of lore. It was a good game but it's quality will be greatly over-exaggerated in the coming years and gamers will clamor for a sequel for decades before realizing it wasn't really that special. It will then be lost to time in two or three generations down the road. It mostly will stand out as a Wii U exclusive and it's power to persuade gamers to check it out will be tied to that.

Smash Bros. for Wii U

- I think this will be a major turning point for Nintendo where they realized they could get any character from any franchise in the game. Between this and all the DLC gamers will look back at this as the definitive Smash for a long time. I think there won't be a true sequel just this game ported to NX with tweaks and new DLC.
I think it will also be remembered fondly as the last game whose launch was an actual event, as I think future games will just be updates rather than true innovations. At least until the world goes true VR or whatever comes next.

Wind Waker HD, Twilight Princess HD

- These will become the definitive versions of those games reducing the originals to for collectors only. But there will be a Lucas-Like cult who wants the original unaltered games released in the future for posterity's  sake.

I think that is about it.

Mario Kart will be forgotten once the next one comes along and it will be judged by it's peers as which was the better Mario Kart but it won't be the game you point to as *the* Mario Kart since that doesn't exist.

Yoshi's Woolly World will be lost to time and people will look back wondering what Nintendo was thinking when the next Yoshi game changes the formula yet again.

Kirby will be forgotten as it was pretty to look at but the core game was not that memorable and people tend to overlook Kirby games anyways.

Those are my observations, I could be wrong of course but I just think that is how the Wii U's library will be remembered.

I can't comment on Zelda U because it still might not happen if it gets moved to NX.

[Evan_B]

Of your list, I can only really back up Super Mario 3D World (the game where EAD FINALLY got the formula right), Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze, and The Wonderful 101. I think Hyrule Warriors is mostly generic despite its mountains of content, Smash Bros. will be quickly discarded if a competitively superior sequel is ever released, and Bayonetta 2 is merely a serviceable sequel. As much as I'd like to cite Splatoon and Xenoblade Chronicles X, any game where online functionality is a crucial part of the game experience is already crippling itself- one day, those servers will go offline, and Splatoon will be a husk of its former self, which highlights its biggest flaw, and Xenoblade has a lot of communication going on and things that are really enhanced by its online play. This largely goes for Super Mario Maker, as well.

A game I would like to mention, however, is Pikmin 3, which is an extremely smooth gameplay experience enhanced by the modern conventions of gaming.

[Ian Sane]

There's kind of weird extreme with the Wii U lineup where you either have games that are part of long running series where earlier titles already have a reputation or games that are the start of a new IP or gameplay concept that will probably be topped by later sequels.  Bayonetta 2 and Pikmin 3 probably stand the best chance because they already are the more-refined sequels but are early enough in their series that there isn't already a "definitive" entry to steal their thunder.

The truly legendary Marios are titles like SMB3, SMW and Galaxy.  Is 3D World going to match the reputation of those titles?  It isn't even necessarily a discussion of what's better, there just already is a pro-conceived reputation that makes it harder for newer games to enter into the discussion.  Same with Zelda.  LttP and OoT just have such a big rep that a new game has to really blow people away to match the "myth" of those titles.  And the new Zelda is probably going to be seen as an NX title anyway.

Mario Maker is great but will probably be topped by sequels.  SSB and Mario Kart always have a bigger and better game waiting to come along.  Splatoon will get sequels and like Evan pointed out will be a very incomplete title when the servers go down.  Hyrule Warriors is just a Zelda themed Musou game and there will be tons of more of those in the future.  If this ends up being the only Zelda one then it might build a reputation but I can see more Nintendo themed ones in the future.

[supermario2k]

I still think Splatoon will have a cult like following where people will brag about how the first was the best even if they can't play it. Nintendo will not keep the servers running forever but the hacker community will, plus Nintendo will incorporate elements from it as a throw back in later games if it takes off.

[ejamer]

I agree with only a few titles listed above:

Bayonetta 2 - The exclusive factor and mature rating will drive this one, much as it did Eternal Darkness. Both were good games with flaws. As far as I know, neither sold a ton of copies.

Pikmin 3 - It's a fun, well made game that looks gorgeous. The Pikmin series always flies a bit below the radar but I suspect this will be held up as one of the Wii U gems for years to come.

Super Mario 3D World - It's arguably better than the Galaxy games, and clearly more approachable. Mario is the one franchise above all others for Nintendo, and this game does justice to that legacy.


No other game stands out enough that I feel confident calling it a timeless classic...  although Mario Maker and NintendoLand both stand a chance. They are unique enough and great games, but have significant caveats that prevent me from calling them timeless. Mario Maker will take a big hit once servers are shut down and could be improved (ie: obsoleted) by a sequel.  NintendoLand might never outlive the initial disappointment it faced, and will always be limited in appeal because it's a party game that requires several people.

For the sake of argument I'll throw one more name in the hat:

Lego City: Undercover - Not a title that most would think of in this context, but maybe it deserves to be included? It has high production values and is a great game all around. It's not tied to a licensed property - for better or worse - but is still arguably the best LEGO game released. Wii U features are put to good use, although those features also prevent off-screen play from being available. This game is also an Nintendo exclusive that seemed to get a relatively small print run for the Wii U - which might make it more appealing to collectors.


Also, worth noting that co-op gameplay for Shovel Knight is really awesome, and the Nintendo-themed Mine Craft stage is wonderfully put together. Is that enough to make either a timeless classic on Wii U? No. But we're not exactly drowning in choices here.

[BranDonk Kong]

Super Mario 3D World is pretty much it.

[Ian Sane]

I figure Tokyo Mirage Sessions will not sell all that well and thus will be a collector's item in the future.  The fact that it's a company crossover may also put it in rightsholders hell and prevent future re-releases.  But that won't necessarily make it a timeless classic.  There are games that have reps for being rare but aren't regarded as the best of the best.  Still that will raise the game's profile.

[Order.RSS]

Think Captain Toad might be he best shout here, as well as Splatoon. Especially if they manage to turn those into major franchises. Mario Maker will probably at least be fondly remembered as "remember that crazy time Nintendo let everyone make dumb levels?", or improved upon in sequels.


With the rest, I feel like a lot will be remembered as "good for its time", but not absolute classics. Things like Pikmin 3, Mario 3D World and Bayonetta 2 will be fondly remembered but they were kinda of iterating on previous successes and didn't raise the bar for their genres in ways that Mario 64 or Galaxy did.
Ditto for the RPGs on the system, they'll probably be seen as good games, but not Final Fantasy 7/Chrono Trigger-level revelations.


Likewise, Affordable Space Adventures, ZombiU, and both Star Fox games will probably at least be seen as "innovative with the controller", but I'm not sure they'll be trendsetters.


Wii U has an embarrasment of riches when it comes to sidescrolling platformers with Yoshi, DK, Kirby, New Mario/Luigi Bros, Rayman Legends, etc. but while Rayman and DK both did cool new things I'm not confident they have rewritten the playbook for all platformers to come. Rather they were just excellent executions of their genre.

[Luigi Dude]

A game doesn't need to be a groundbreaking genre changer to be considered a classic years later.  Many games that are considered classic are iterative sequels at their core but their high quality is why they're talked about years later.  Just because many of the Wii U's titles are sequels doesn't mean they won't be considered classics years from now, especially when many are considered the best or around the best in their series.

[Oedo]

Xenoblade Chronicle X will be remembered as a classic by many people. What that game does in terms of building a world is astonishing and, not only is there nothing else like it on the Wii U, I doubt there's anything quite like it on any platform (I'm including Xenoblade Chronicles in that which, while I think it's the superior game, is a different experience). Between the atmosphere and premise of the game, the way you slowly bring New L.A. to life and see relationships between people change, the deep battle and crafting system, the way Skells take the game to new heights in so many awesome ways, and, most of all, Mira's beautiful, vast open world, it's easily the high point of the Wii U as far as I'm concerned.

I also don't think the online will hurt Xenoblade Chronicles X's legacy or replayability all that much. I played without using the online features in any meaningful capacity until the post-game. They're neat, but they're not what makes that game amazing.

[Evan_B]

I mean, the word "classic" could mean a number of different things. Now, will many of these games be remembered fondly? I think the majority in the original post will, but fondness is also evidenced by reviews. Did many Wii U titles break new ground? Not really, but outside of graphics and music, many Super Nintendo games didn't, either. So there's a number of Wii U titles that are generally well-made games that will likely be enjoyed for years to come- but I don't think Splatoon or Mario Maker fall into that territory. Likewise, I've seen some pretty harsh critique for Bayonetta 2.

I think, as one of the few JRPGs on the system, Tokyo Mirage Sessions will attain some sort of cult-status, especially with its subject matter.

[Wah]

I really loved NintendoLand, especially Metroid Blast and the Zelda one.

[ejamer]

The RPGs that others have brought up, both Xenoblade Chronicles X and Tokyo Mirage Sessions, are interesting to think about.


Xenoblade Chronicles X is an interesting and ambitious sequel to the much lauded Wii game.  It provides a massive world to explore and become a part of.  I can't call it a classic though. The story clearly took a back seat to trying to provide a sense of exploration, the soundtrack was disappointing, and I feel like there are some design/technical choices made that prevent the game from looking as good and being as easy to play as it really should be. Individually those aren't big deals, but combined I feel like they are a pretty big strike against the game.

The original Xenoblade on Wii blew away expectations in many ways, and provided an awesome experience all around. Expectations for the sequel were much higher though, so the bar of what it needed to accomplish to be appreciated was raised. I feel like this will be a case of Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross - both good games, but only one being a true classic.


Tokyo Mirage Sessions is impossible to judge yet, because we haven't played it. Speculation based on information that's slipped out suggests it will be a solid RPG and well worth owning - but I agree with Evan_B that "cult" will likely be a better descriptor than "classic". Using the Japanese Idol industry as a basis for the story just seems so weird and grounded in a particular time/setting that I can't even guess how people will relate to this game in 15 or 20 years. That said, I'd love to be proven wrong.



One problem I have with this discussion is that for any game to become a "timeless classic" it has to be widely played and appreicated. Wii U games often don't meet that criteria because of the limited install base, and due to special hardware requirements that's unlikely to improve through backwards compatibility in the future.  Maybe none of these games will be considered classics - instead being "lost gems" that only collectors know about.

[supermario2k]

I guess timeless classic was too strong. Maybe just remembered fondly to the point of being elevated above their current status? IDK.

[Ian Sane]

Xenoblade X has those downloads to help with load times.  10 years from now if you find a used copy you won't be able to download those anymore so the experience will be a little less smooth than it is now.  Anyone playing without the downloads?  Is the performance different enough that it would affect opinions of the game?

[supermario2k]

Xenoblade X has those downloads to help with load times.  10 years from now if you find a used copy you won't be able to download those anymore so the experience will be a little less smooth than it is now.  Anyone playing without the downloads?  Is the performance different enough that it would affect opinions of the game?

I suspect, as with the servers going down, this will not be that much of a problem as there will be unofficial ways to obtain the DLC and connect to servers and with the games being used/collectibles at that point I doubt anyone will care. As long as they don't upload a Let's Play to Youtube, Nintendo won't even have a way of knowing. Also I am not sure if you are aware of this but most people don't play their old games on legit hardware anyways. They use either Retro all in one consoles, emulation, or some combination as well as Steam and Virtual Console.

While you can technically run an emulator and Rom of Duck Hunt, Area 51, or Virtua Cop on modern hardware, you cannot get the authentic experience anyways but that doesn't stop people from trying.

[Luigi Dude]

One problem I have with this discussion is that for any game to become a "timeless classic" it has to be widely played and appreicated. Wii U games often don't meet that criteria because of the limited install base, and due to special hardware requirements that's unlikely to improve through backwards compatibility in the future.  Maybe none of these games will be considered classics - instead being "lost gems" that only collectors know about.

Only they don't.  There's a ton of videogames that are considered classics that weren't exactly widely played.  Hell, you mention Chrono Trigger earlier in your post, which was only a mass seller in Japan.  In America it was very niche and wasn't even released in Europe which by this logic should discredit it from being considered a classic unless your living in Japan.  If we want to bring in Nintendo games, Super Metroid is widely considered a classic by Nintendo fans and yet that game certainly wasn't widely played either which is why it took over 8 years to finally get a new one back in it's day.

This is why the term classic is very subjective.  To many of us on the internet if asked about what games we consider classics, will list games that many in the general public have never heard about.  And then if you asked the general public what a classic is, they'd only list the huge sellers from more recent franchises or the super iconic stuff like SMB1 and Pac-Man, and leave out many of the older games we consider classics.  If using internet classic logic then quite a few Nintendo's Wii U games can be considered classic years from now based on their quality, while if we use general public logic then yeah almost nothing on the Wii U can but by that logic games like Chrono Trigger and Super Metroid can't be considered classics either.

[ejamer]

Eh, maybe. But the install base for SNES vs Wii U is so incredibly different...


It's like asking people about handheld Nintendo classics. You'll get a few people bring up the couple of good Virtual Boy games, but those will be overwhelmed by games on platforms that people actually owned and played.  In 20 years, I'm not sure that anything from Wii U will be remembered.

[Agent-X-]

I'm confident Mario 3D World, DKC: Tropical Freeze, Xenoblade Chronicles X, Super Smash Bros, and Mario Kart 8 will all be considered classics. Mario Kart 8 is definitively better than the GCN and Wii games enough so that I consider it the best thing since Mario Kart 64.


I also feel that Tropical Freeze has etched its way to being the best DKC since DKC2. The music. The levels. It's really just that good.


I suspect that these games will experience new life on Nintendo's newest platform. It only makes sense given the Wii U's limitations.

[Oedo]

Smash 4 is an interesting one to think about. I think it's a near lock to be considered a classic, if for no other reason than the fact that it has a burgeoning competitive scene that will continue to go strong for many years. Unlike Brawl, it has been wholeheartedly embraced as a competitive fighting game and the community is already huge. I remember reading that, as of the beginning of May, there have already been 105 Smash 4 tournaments with 100+ entrants this year. It's neck in neck with Street Fighter V for registered entrants at CEO 2016 right now. When you consider the fact that we're only one and a half years into what has been a six to seven year cycle between brand new Smash Bros. games, there's still a lot of time left for the game to grow and expand further expand its legacy.

[Evan_B]

Smash 4 is an interesting one to think about. I think it's a near lock to be considered a classic, if for no other reason than the fact that it has a burgeoning competitive scene that will continue to go strong for many years. Unlike Brawl, it has been wholeheartedly embraced as a competitive fighting game and the community is already huge. I remember reading that, as of the beginning of May, there have already been 105 Smash 4 tournaments with 100+ entrants this year. It's neck in neck with Street Fighter V for registered entrants at CEO 2016 right now. When you consider the fact that we're only one and a half years into what has been a six to seven year cycle between brand new Smash Bros. games, there's still a lot of time left for the game to grow and expand further expand its legacy.

The Bayonetta nerf as well as Bidou help that case, too.

[Wah]

Bidou?

[BranDonk Kong]

I take it back. Super Mario 3D World, Splatoon, and Captain Toad Treasure Tracker. NOTHING ELSE.

And the new Zelda.

[UncleBob]

Thought on Splatoon - I could see a definitive edition coming out before the Wii U EoL - including all the patches and DLC.  Throw a LAN mode in and you've got another must-have pickup for the system.

Hell, give us Smash U with a LAN mode...

[Oedo]

Smash 4 is an interesting one to think about. I think it's a near lock to be considered a classic, if for no other reason than the fact that it has a burgeoning competitive scene that will continue to go strong for many years. Unlike Brawl, it has been wholeheartedly embraced as a competitive fighting game and the community is already huge. I remember reading that, as of the beginning of May, there have already been 105 Smash 4 tournaments with 100+ entrants this year. It's neck in neck with Street Fighter V for registered entrants at CEO 2016 right now. When you consider the fact that we're only one and a half years into what has been a six to seven year cycle between brand new Smash Bros. games, there's still a lot of time left for the game to grow and expand further expand its legacy.

The Bayonetta nerf as well as Bidou help that case, too.

Yeah, even if they never release another patch, it feels like the game is at a good place in terms of balance after the Bayo update and there's likely a lot of unexplored tech left to discover with and without Bidou.

Bidou?

It's a specific controller layout that allows you to use tech that's more difficult (or effectively not possible on a consistent basis) with the traditional layout most people use. It hasn't caught on yet and given the fact that it works best on the Wii U Pro Controller and is so drastically different than what most people use now in general, I'm not sure it ever will. If newer players start to use it and become competent with it though, it could open up the metagame a lot.