Author Topic: Gamecubes Graphics  (Read 6760 times)

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Offline mouse_clicker

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Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2003, 01:46:13 PM »
TECHNICALLY the PS2 has two 64 bit processors strapped together, I believe. The Gamecube's processor is something like 64 bit, and the Xbox's processor is 32 bit- *obviously* the bits don't matter as powerwise they're in reverse order.

"Anyways who cares about graphics, its all about the gameplay."

Have you read *anything* I've said, or do you just naturally skip my posts?
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Offline The Matrixter

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RE: Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2003, 05:11:50 PM »
The cube is mightier than the box.

Offline The Matrixter

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RE: Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2003, 05:15:29 PM »
If you want to settle this, look at each company's sit. I have a link to each site with a page on hardware.
http://www.us.playstation.com/hardware/PS2/SCPH-30001.asp
http://www.nintendo.com/systems/gcn/specifications.jsp

Look, I think this should I at least give you some ideas...........................
The cube is mightier than the box.

Offline Hostile Creation

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Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2003, 05:20:46 PM »
That doesn't necessarily mean you're right, though, mouse clicker.  I don't care, but he can sure as heck think that if he pleases.
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Offline HolyPaladin

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Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2003, 06:07:07 AM »
Before anything else, I want to point out something.  It could be easy to sit here and debate numbers.  Nintendo's rivals love to do this because the numbers can so easily be twisted around to look good in your favor.  Microsoft and Sony both were bad about using misleading figures.  This is evident in polygon output figures, since only Nintendo used conservative but realistic figures while both Sony and Microsoft listed numbers that they could never, ever, ever achieve in a real game environment.    People tend to neglect that little detail when comparing those figures.  Another problem comes with comparing Xbox's POS 733 MHz Intel Pentium III to the 485 MHz IBM PowerPC found in GCN, as that 733 looks a lot bigger than 485, but this fails to point out that the 486 MHz processor actually spits out more instructions per second than that larger 733.  The numbers decieve.

All BS and figures asside, looking at the end results you see on the screen, there is not much difference between what Xbox is capable of and what GCN can do.  People like to throw PS2 in there as being close, too, but it isn't.  The main problem with proving that is that most developers develop first for PS2 and then port to Xbox, GCN, or both as an afterthought without any real significant improvement.  That leaves you with something looking much the same across all three, in spite of the fact that GCN and Xbox can do way more.  Developers push PS2 to its limits, but rarely do near as much as they can with GCN or Xbox.

Realistically, all specifications sheets and whatever asside, it probably comes out like this: If you had some sort of measuring scale with which to measure the graphics they can put onto your television screen, with this scale going from 1 to 10 and having Xbox as 10, the chart might look like this:

Xbox 10
GCN 9
PS2 7
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If whatever I just posted sounds rude/hateful/whatever then you probably read it wrong, but I will insert apology here, anyways, just in case.  

Offline mouse_clicker

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Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2003, 09:12:20 AM »
Hostile: Going along the same line, I can alos think whatever I want, and I think he's wrong.

Holy: Except that an XBox game could be a 7 on that scale of 10 while a PS2 game could get a 9 because it's developer knows the system better. It's pointless to rate systems' graphics because it's the developer that's the one who decides how good the graphics are. And no one will EVER push a system to it's limits- we'll move into the next generation before any of the 3 major systems get maxed out.  
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Offline Shadow Fox

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RE:Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2003, 05:15:33 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Grey Ninja
*sigh*  Unless someone can prove to me that GameCube uses OpenGL, I will call you a bloody liar.  (or uninformed)  As far as I know, GameCube uses its own proprietary API, PS2 makes you program your own API, and Xbox gives you DirectX.  I seriously don't know how this OpenGL talk got started, as I have only heard it around here.
Actually OpenGL is the primary tool most GCN devvers use for porting over Maya/3DS Max models to GCN in low-level, realworld polygonal models.  This much is in the very Factor 5 interview on the Rogue Leader disc, and there's much more about OpenGL manipulating Flipper LSI at warioworld.com.

In fact, Codewarrior specifically created it's own compiler for GCN use via Direct X 8, so even Xbox code can be ported easily to GCN, creating shaders and the like on-the-fly.
Quote

Flipper bears little to no resemblance to a Radeon GPU, as ATI didn't buy ArtX until the GPU design was already taped out.  Comparing Flipper to a Radeon is simply erroneous.  However, since ArtX is behind the design of newer Radeons, there is a little bit of Flipper showing through, but it's still not much.  Flipper != Radeon.
Exactly.  Finally someone here knows the difference between ex-Silicon Graphics work, and a low-end, consumer-based GPU.
Quote

GameCube has no shaders, but the CPU is powerful enough to do such effects in software.
That, and Flipper LSI is not completely fixed function, as there is direct coding if of the API, and some direct effects (such as vertex shaders) already pre-recorded in newer GCN dev-kits.  Factor 5 has also mentioned several hardware shaders developed in Flipper LSI for Rogue Leader- doing things previously thought to be possible only on Xbox and PC's capable of running Aquanox at full power.
Quote

Most of the Xbox talk around here right now is correct though, as it's essentially a PC, and it's hard to screw that up.  Comparing GameCube and PS2 to a PC is simply WRONG though.  Don't do that.
Xbox is a PC in that it bears the same horrible 133mhz front-side bus that PC's were plagued with for years versus quicker Macs, plus the HUGE bottlenecks with the 1GB/sec CPU to GPU bandwidth, 10GB/sec texture bandwidth vs only 6.4GB/sec to pull them from main memory, the cost of 16MB of that 64MB of RAM just to create a damn Z-buffer, and several other nuances.  

The only commendation that I see in Xbox is it's vastly superior DSP- there is no other console audio chip like it, let alone many consoles out there with a Dedicated audio chip with AC3 digital encoding.  GCN can come close in the number of 3D voices (128 realworld, according to Factor 5), but the difference between analog and digital is no comparison.

The harddrive is great, but as we've noticed, not too many developers have used it creatively as a GAMING utility.  Imagine what Nintendo or Sega would have done with this type of advantage...it's sad to see Microsoft not jumping the gun of creativity yet until it's too late (PS2 HD/PSX/PS3/GCN2).
Quote

Anyone who claims that they know which system is the most powerful and isn't a liscensed developer for all three systems is outright lying.  That includes most people here.

I tend to believe people who make games for all the systems, such as Factor 5, who claimed that all 3 systems were about equal in power when it all came down to it.  I tend to trust Factor 5 more than some guy on a forum with a keyboard and a spec sheet in front of them.

Now can we please quit discussing this?  This very topic just annoys me.
Read my mind.  Exactly what I've been saying for what- 2 years now?  I like this guy...

Sorry about bringing the topic back up, but there were some things I needed to clear up in the first quote about Flipper LSI's true abilities.  Let me tell it; I think the thing sets records for being the most powerful graphics subsystem to do realtime T&L, PLUS be an audio and I/O chip all-in-one...

Now will somebody please stalk Microsoft until they give me the goods on what they're REALWORLD polygon performance specs are?

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Offline Renny

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RE: Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2003, 07:18:07 AM »
I see your thread is still going strong at 1182 replies. Is that a record? They oughta sticky that....
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Offline bubba23

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RE:Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2003, 08:44:11 AM »
You can quote all the specs all you like, but what really matters is how the games look. F-Zero GX, Metroid Prime, and Legend of Zelda : The Wind Waker are among the best of this 128-bit generation when it comes to graphics (Including what the XBOX offers). I love the fact that these games deliver colourful and eye catching visuals at a high frame rate. My final word of adivce is don't listen to people who say Gamecube is the worst console for graphics and it's just for kids, because they don't know what the heck they are talking about.
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Offline nolimit19

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RE: Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2003, 11:23:23 AM »
this is sooooo a year and a half ago.
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Offline Shadow Fox

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RE:Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2003, 01:10:41 PM »
Ya know, the ironic part of all this is the fact that PS2 is the only true 128-bit console, while GCN and Xbox are 32/64 and 32-bit respectively (GCN is a 32/64-bit hybrid; 64-bit architecture and 32-bit address space, unless Nintendo did indeed modify PPC 750cxe).

One would think with the SNES vs Genesis mentality that PS2 was the most powerful console graphically...how weird technology has become...

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Offline Rellik

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RE:Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2003, 01:13:07 PM »
The specs don't matter because the software is developed individually for each system, as opposed to the universal PC software that can harness any graphics card you may have (as long as it's supported... but most current ones are).  Still, correct and straight-forward specs can give you an idea of the capability of the console; one console cannot necessarily be made to perform the same functions as another, so the specs aren't totall irrelevant.

And to whoever said that DirectX was easier than OpenGL...

Offline Grey Ninja

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RE: Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #37 on: December 23, 2003, 01:35:53 PM »
Rellik, DirectX is easier to master, but OpenGL has a much shallower learning curve.  Personally I prefer OpenGL.

Shadow Fox, it's very nice to have you here.  I am personally very sick of arguing with people who don't seem to get that there is more to creating power than clock speed alone.  I know that you are probably more knowledgable with the hardware than I am, as I am a programmer dominated by the software, so I am going to step aside for you.  If you would like to educate people, that's fine with me.  I'll back you up.  But I don't really wish to fight this anymore myself.

But I will have to look into that OpenGL stuff you mentioned.  I don't look at the official dev tools, but I will try to read about what is in them from 2nd hand information.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #38 on: December 23, 2003, 02:06:31 PM »
Them next-gender graphics are sum'in, aren't they?
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Offline Selochin

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RE:Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #39 on: December 24, 2003, 09:36:18 AM »
I read somewhere that the xbox is 256-bit...
Nintendo had better have something amazing planned for next generation if it plans to be a serious competitor.

Offline Hostile Creation

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RE:Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #40 on: December 24, 2003, 11:24:37 AM »
I read somewhere that there was one ring that ruled all the others, and it was of the dark lord that resided in Mordor and that the fellowship would go to destroy the ring and save the world OH WAIT THAT IS LORD OF TEH RINGS SORRY LOL!!!1!11!

Sorry about that.  It could be, actually, but I don't think it is.  Moral of the story is don't believe everything that you read.
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Offline Grey Ninja

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RE: Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2003, 01:41:22 PM »
I assure you it's not.  I don't know how to explain this without using too many technical terms, so I will just say this.

Athlon 64 just came out a few months back right?  You know what's so special about it?  It's 64 bit.  The problem is that the only OS that is made for a native 64 bit CPU right now is Linux, so Microsoft is scurrying like a swarm of cockroaches to prepare a 64 bit version of Windows XP.

Now.  The Xbox uses a variant of a 733MHz Celeron processor.  If it was 256 bit, why would the Athlon 64 be such a big deal?
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE: Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #42 on: December 24, 2003, 01:56:55 PM »
Quote

he problem is that the only OS that is made for a native 64 bit CPU right now is Linux, so Microsoft is scurrying like a swarm of cockroaches to prepare a 64 bit version of Windows XP.


Hahaha, that's hilarious!
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Offline DrZoidberg

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RE:Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #43 on: December 24, 2003, 02:15:08 PM »
i herd ps2 woz bettah cuz dey r gonna clusterlink the entire marketshare of ps2's into one super hypread cluster console of massive kahmayahmayah waves of doom while processing melting points unit troops highscoreboards

which console has the best wire colour, now that's a debate we should move into.
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #44 on: December 24, 2003, 02:16:42 PM »
Actually, Zoidberg, that's something Sony's thinking about for the PS3, which they want to put the Cell processor in.
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Offline DrZoidberg

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RE: Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #45 on: December 24, 2003, 02:18:55 PM »
massive kahmayamaya waves of doom? oww geez, that will be quite the botheration.
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #46 on: December 24, 2003, 02:25:47 PM »
While massive kahmayamaya waves of doom would indeed be annoying, I meant more the clusterlink thing. They plan on having the PS3 be a permanently online console and combining the processing power from all the consoles to run your games, which you will download.
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Offline Hostile Creation

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RE:Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #47 on: December 24, 2003, 02:36:21 PM »
Ew, that sounds like a nasty idea to me.  Aside from it not appealing to me in a personal way, there are so many ways that they could A) Screw it up, or B) Design it so that it makes it very easy for other people to screw it up.
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Offline Shadow Fox

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RE:Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #48 on: December 24, 2003, 06:01:13 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Grey Ninja
I assure you it's not.  I don't know how to explain this without using too many technical terms, so I will just say this.

Athlon 64 just came out a few months back right?  You know what's so special about it?  It's 64 bit.  The problem is that the only OS that is made for a native 64 bit CPU right now is Linux, so Microsoft is scurrying like a swarm of cockroaches to prepare a 64 bit version of Windows XP.

Now.  The Xbox uses a variant of a 733MHz Celeron processor.  If it was 256 bit, why would the Athlon 64 be such a big deal?
I believe this guy is talking about the Xbox GPU being 256-bit, in which he's slightly correct- both the GCN and Xbox graphics engines are 256-bit, but the actual GPU's themselves are 128-bit cores.

So, 128-bit graphics, 32-bit/64-bit console...confusing, no?

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Offline Grey Ninja

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RE: Gamecubes Graphics
« Reply #49 on: December 24, 2003, 06:50:17 PM »
Fair enough.  Unfortunately I lack the advanced 3D graphics knowledge to fully understand why this would be the case, but I suppose I will take your word on it.  
Once I had, a little game
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