Author Topic: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture  (Read 32014 times)

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Offline Oblivion

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2013, 10:56:02 AM »
2.0 is perfectly fine for the Wii U, but the load times come from what Adrock said.

Offline Ceric

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2013, 11:39:56 AM »
Um, Yeah Adrock and Oblivion they are not providing the same level of Power as a Standard USB 2.0 port.  If they were you would NEVER need a Y Cable to provide power to drives that were meant to work off of 1 USB 2.0 port with no External Power.  I'm sorry.  Non-Standard Implementation.

I've seen the video of the "Sped Up" UI and I have to say if the CORE OS features are that slow to load STILL then its hardware choices.  More then likely they really cheaped out on the onboard flash.  My computer Literally loads from a completely dead state Windows 8 to Web Browser running faster then even the new menu transitions.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 11:42:28 AM by Ceric »
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Offline KeyBilly

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2013, 11:44:00 AM »
I like Iwata and he has an amazing background in video game production that helps guide his decisions.  However, I have been a Nintendo fan long enough to know that he says whatever people want to hear.  The GCN and Wii were supposed to have amazing online infrastructures.  He said the same thing about Wii U, and I was surprised how many people were disappointed and surprised when they used it.  Nintendo always says that they have "learned [their] lesson," but they just do what they want to and are unwilling to give up enough control to work with companies that could help them.  Similarly, they always talk up how they will not make the same mistake with a lack of games after launch.  There are many messages or themes that they create in their communications that are purely manipulative (normal people think graphics on Wii are the same as the 360, etc.).

Iwata is the primary voice of a major company, and like any other large business he promotes whatever message will provide a positive image, whether it is based in truth or not.  I don't know if that qualifies as hubris or just a lack of morality in keeping with standard corporate practices.

Offline Kairon

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2013, 11:45:53 AM »
I have a difficult time imagining a better leader than Iwata to preserve the "Nintendo DNA" and lead the company through this dynamic and rapidly changing market. Nintendo is a very unique beast in the gaming world and corporate world, they are both conservative and innovative, and do things on principle for the long term while being perfectly willing to take dynamic risks in the heat of the moment. I think there are many ways that Nintendo, and Iwata himself, do not live up to the western preconception of what a tech company, an industry-leading company, or a CEO should be. That's probably why so often Iwata finds it necessary to apologize for not being the person everyone expects him to be. There's no other way to say it: he's isn't what we'd expect, and Nintendo doesn't fit the mold.

But it's sort of a non-apology too. Iwata isn't going to change that essential Nintendo-ness that under his command has made the company a philosophical dissenting "other" in our modern hyper-charged industry. He's sorry we don't like that, but he's not going to change his ways just to please us. Nor is Miyamoto.

This is the mindset that creates the Nintendo difference, and will keep the company zigging instead of zagging, playing to our hearts but never our expectations. They are intensely focused on preserving their ability to make the games and experiences they want to make, whether that be Wii Music or Zelda, and if that makes them play outside the rules that society thinks they need to live within, then Iwata is sorry, but definitely not repentant.
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2013, 12:28:34 PM »
I believe that Nintendo's image hasn't really changed much under Iwata, in fact, I think it's matured into something a lot more respectable than it used to be. Sure, Nintendo used to have some pretty stellar RPG support, but post-SNES the company did take a turn for the worse- the N64 was a very selfish and off-putting move that dug a very deep hole for the company.

Now, I see Nintendo creating unique, accessible content that looks, feels, and plays like a toy- something to be picked up and shaken around without fear of breaking. The NES, SNES, N64, and even Gamecube reflected this same image- aesthetically pleasing, toylike machines that people HAVE FUN on. The Wii pushed that concept further and allowed a casual audience.

If anything, the "return to the core" is something I find a bit silly, but I also think that the Wii U is a fantastic piece of hardware that will excel once it has all of its kinks worked out within the launch year. It offers something uniquely "Nintendo" to its userbase and I think that's extremely respectable. It appeals to a large audience and it does so in a controlled manner- I think that kids are definitely an important part of video games and the Wii U allows them limited forum accessibility as well as internet access in addition to their games.

Now, as for these quotes, I can't say much. I wish Nintendo did learn from their mistakes, but I also know that they're an extremely business-savvy company, especially since they've been competing pretty intensely with more larger competitors. So I trust them, for now... but if I don't see the Wii U take a turn for the better post-2013, I'm going to be a bit concerned.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2013, 12:34:16 PM »
If anything, the "return to the core" is something I find a bit silly, but I also think that the Wii U is a fantastic piece of hardware that will excel once it has all of its kinks worked out within the launch year. It offers something uniquely "Nintendo" to its userbase and I think that's extremely respectable. It appeals to a large audience and it does so in a controlled manner...

I think the sales numbers would pretty thoroughly disprove that statement.  :P:
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Offline marty

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2013, 12:47:34 PM »
ad hominem arguments aside, Iwata is aware that the GCN, Wii, DS, 3DS, and Wii U have suffered from droughts (and so did the N64, for sure, not that I'm blaming Iwata for it).  Yeah, Reggie is to blame for some of NOA's drought problems but, collectively, the droughts are a Nintendo problem.  PERIOD.  Nintendo posted its first loss ever to the tune of $500+ million for FY 2011 (with losses reported for the first half of 2012, too).  That's not something caused by a few fanboys not getting every game they want or some huge, expensive gamble not paying off.  Nintendo didn't post losses when the N64 and GCN, which combined didn't have the install base of the Wii, were quietly failing.


So why does Nintendo keep causing droughts?  I felt like Nintendo abandoned the Wii after 2009 (2010 financials were weaker than 2009) right on the heels of the ultra successful NSMB Wii and Wii Sports Resort as well as the widespread adoption of WM+ (which ended up being virtually unused and unnecessary by every developer).  It's debatable when the Wii support dried up but, considering the weak 3DS and Wii U launches, I can't see where Nintendo's spending their money.


Where I can see Nintendo spending their money seems like a bad idea --because Nintendo seems to love making mini-games.  Mini-games are exactly the kind of thing smaller developers can churn out for very little money and release on smart-phones/tablets for free or $1.  It's exactly the kind of thing Nintendo shouldn't be releasing for retail or using as a pack-in since the market is saturated with them--they're sales are incidental; they're not driving the market and they never have.  The history of video-game sales shows that consumers treat the video game market as a distinctive service, not as an incidental purchase that they make to compliment other goods.  The demand for more video-games has always driven games and hardware sales. 


Didn't Sony's PSP/Smart-phone fail hard?  (Didn't the N-Gage fail hard, Sony?)  As long as dedicated consoles/handhelds have the most profitable games, they're not endangered--especially when you consider that the smartphone market has produced such little demand for actual games despite the ease of distribution/potential market size/ease of development.  People might play games on their phone but what kind of market is there if people aren't buying anything?I don't know anyone spending even $20 a year on smartphone games--most everyone just seems to download a time-waster and never pay a cent for it.  The smartphone market is all supply and no demand=no money=no interest from talent/investors=little in the way of good games that would cause a market demand to rise et cetera.


Nintendo has a pipeline problem.  3rd parties, for whatever reason, have shown that they aren't going to fix this problem for Nintendo (keeping in mind how bad 3rd party developers are doing).  New hardware isn't fixing this problem.  Nintendo isn't selling enough games to grow the market and they're not releasing enough games to keep their customers.  Bad sales nor good sales have fixed this problem.  It seemed like there were going to be changes made starting with the Wii but the problem persisted--it may have even gotten worse.  Iwata isn't fixing this problem.  I have to wonder: why not?

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2013, 01:11:04 PM »
Nintendo can't stop the droughts all by themselves. They don't have the resources to have enough teams working to fill an entire release schedule all on their own. The fact that they can even come close to sustaining a console all on their own is a testament to the quality of their software development, but without third party support the droughts are never going to go away completely. As I've said, Iwata's taken steps to try and encourage third party support, but Yamauchi poisoned that well so badly that there may not be a way to fully recover.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2013, 01:51:40 PM »
I don't think it's fair to lay it all at Yamauchi's feet. Third parties have a plethora of platforms to choose from, and Nintendo is just one choice out of many. Add that to Nintendo's sense of individuality (or non-conformity, if you will), and the gaming landscape is simply different now from when Yamauchi ran things.

But as for droughts in general, it's been a problem for Nintendo ever since the N64, and maybe ever since the GameBoy too. I think it's got a lot to do not just with Nintendo's quirkiness, but also with a philosophy that supports game delays in the name of quality, thereby implicitly prioritizing a game's final quality over a game's fitting into a schedule.

That may be difficult for Nintendo if they were trying to dominate the entire market and start a new Nintendo-Ruled Dynasty, but I think I benefit more as a consumer and fan if they prioritize making quality games for me to play.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 01:53:42 PM by Kairon »
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Offline marty

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2013, 02:15:59 PM »
Nintendo can't stop the droughts all by themselves. They don't have the resources to have enough teams working to fill an entire release schedule all on their own. The fact that they can even come close to sustaining a console all on their own is a testament to the quality of their software development, but without third party support the droughts are never going to go away completely. As I've said, Iwata's taken steps to try and encourage third party support, but Yamauchi poisoned that well so badly that there may not be a way to fully recover.
3rd party support, across the board on all systems, is a mess.  Developers and publishers are in for a lot of pain if they keep operating how they have been.  Graphics aren't profitable, they're a huge expenditure.  Middleware is a crutch--worse, it's a trojan horse that allows inexperienced developers the facade of talent without forcing them to develop the skills necessary to display that talent.  A lot of the uniqueness of individual developers is gone leading to all games starting to feel the same--especially considering the way separate features are adopted and absorbed--rpg elements, open world, regenerating health, puzzles, quicktime events, collectables--regardless of how well they serve the game.  The modern "AAA" game is such an unfocused mess--of course sales are suffering year after year.

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2013, 05:12:20 PM »
I'm not sure why everyone's so down on Iwata and nostalgic for the days of Yamauchi when it's Yamauchi's policies that put us in this mess to begin with. The way he treated third parties is the reason they jumped ship, and while Iwata's done a lot to bring them back, he couldn't undo that damage. People talk of IPs, but Nintendo was never that concerned with creating new IPs regardless of who was in charge.

I don't particularly like Yamauchi, but I just like Nintendo's output from when he was in charge far more than that of Iwata's reign.  Nintendo's best games came out when Yamauchi was in charge.  Maybe that's just a coincidence because that was when Nintendo was new to videogames so all their ideas were fresh.  I see Yamauchi-era Nintendo as much more creative as the cookie-cutter sequels become more prominent under Iwata.  But then I used to think Miyamoto was the man and I've since found out that he INSISTS that every Mario game has the same tired plot.  All the years he came across like a creative genius might have just been him refining his formula until he could find something to milk.  Or maybe he just became a conservative boardroom exec as he got older.

The casual focus is something I really don't like and that started under Iwata.  What I really don't like about it is the loosey-goosey gimmick controls.  Yamauchi-era Nintendo had incredibly TIGHT controls.  The fact that the controls would be intuitive and responsive was one of the key things I associated with Nintendo.  Other companies would make games with **** controls but not Nintendo.  Now I associate Nintendo specifically with shitty controls.  The idea of designing the controller for marketing purposes over functionality started with Iwata (except for R.O.B., but that wasn't the standard controller).  The concept of having glorified last gen specs for a console is also an Iwata-era "innovation".  All the previous Nintendo consoles were had cutting edge hardware for their time (even without CDs) and were a clear step up from the previous gen.

Yamauchi was a notorious hard ass and that attitude really turned third parties against Nintendo and I cannot defend that and the N64 cartridge thing was embarassingly stupid.  The Virtual Boy was also under Yamauchi's watch.

Here are the things I associated as a key part of Nintendo's identity when I became a fan during the Yamauchi era:
1. Nintendo does not make poor games.  Every game has high QA and strives to be great.  Controls are tight and responsive, bugs are rare, graphics and presentation are impressive by the current standards of console games at the time of release.
2. Nintendo does not rest on its laurels.  Each game strives to be essential.  Sequels expand on what was already there and introduce new ideas.  Creativity is highly valued as Nintendo games are ambitious and try to introduce new ideas and concepts and push the industry forward.  Nintendo games lead, not follow.

Essentially you bought damn near every Nintendo game because you knew Nintendo was working hard to make sure it was awesome and that it fucking mattered and set the new standard for its genre.  Like a new Mario platformer was going to be the new standard that all other platformers would be compared to.  Now with stuff like Lost Levels and most of their Game Boy stuff and all the Pokemon spinoffs this wasn't quite followed 100% but typically Nintendo appeared to follow this methodology.

In the Iwata era I don't get this.  We'll get generic sequels that are still enjoyable but nothing essential.  We'll have wonky controls and simplistic and borderline lazy graphics and presentation (hell the HARDWARE doesn't even allow for this aspect to even follow industry standards).  The casual games are intentionally unambitious.  Some outright JUNK like DK Barrel Blast has gotten released under Iwata's watch.

Maybe it's just a luck of the timing of Yamauchi's reign landing when Nintendo pretty much had to be more creative.  But then the NSMB games are following a blue print from Super Mario World in 1991.  Oddly enough it was not until Iwata took over that Nintendo started to make generic 2D Mario games on a regular basis.  They had all these years where they could have done it but instead gave us Yoshi's Island and moved Mario into 3D with Super Mario 64.  NSMB came out 15 years after SMW.  If they were always planning on milking the formula once they perfected it, why wouldn't they have started on the SNES?  Every other company would have rushed to get OoT Part 2 out but Nintendo instead made Majora's Mask, which has this incredibly creative three day time cycle.  Hell, they re-used models from OoT to get this game out on time but still decided to be creative.  They could have just made a quick 'n' dirty follow-up to OoT and it would have sold like gangbusters but they didn't.

I remember when Super Mario Sunshine came out and it wasn't that great because the waterpack felt forced.  Why did they bother to force something into Mario that didn't seem to fit when they could have easily made Super Mario 64 2 with improved graphics?  But this game was greenlit under Yamauchi (the Japanese release came out about a month after Iwata took over).  It clearly makes an attempt to introduce new concepts to 3D Mario platforming.  It doesn't succeed but the intention is there.  Same with Wind Waker which also started development under Yamauchi.  The ocean, the wind, the cartoon graphics - all attempts to do something unique with Zelda instead of just more of the same.  I felt that's actually a trend on the Cube as Nintendo tried to be creative with their sequels and often struggled to do so (maybe that's why they've become more cookie cutter; it's harder to come up with new ideas).  Anyway, the only reason I can see them doing that is if it was part of their company's culture.  In Yamauchi-era Nintendo you do NOT make some cookie cutter sequel, you come up with some new ideas to incorporate into the formula.  Iwata-era is all "hey how about another side scrolling Mario game and can we recycle Wuhu Island into that Pilotwings game and hand off some of our IPs to some nondescript third party?"

Offline Caterkiller

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2013, 05:15:41 PM »
Ok so a tweet that was posted on Nepgaf talked about how more and more reports are coming in that Nintendo is giving away free Wii U development kits to developers. It's unclear if these are indie guys or just any 3rd party. What ever the case that certainly seems like a step in the right direction.


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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2013, 06:08:25 PM »
indies likely

Offline Louieturkey

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2013, 02:45:27 PM »
indies likely
I could see it where they give away the first one free.  If they want more, they can pay for the additional dev kits if they are needed.

Offline alegoicoe

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2013, 02:09:48 AM »
I found myself agreeing a lot with this article, although I love the guy is a time to recognize that his time is over and replaced by new blood ready to tackle a ruthless market in route to destruction.


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Offline Adrock

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2013, 09:41:11 AM »
I'm curious what all the Iwata-should-step-down and Reggie-should-be-fired people think their replacements should do rectify Nintendo's woes. I haven't heard any good ones. People suggest "Get better third party support" except that's an instruction, not a strategy. Nintendo has made several plays to turn that ship around when it comes to third parties. Gamecube from a hardware standpoint was the anti-N64, a disc based, easy-to-develop-for console. Wii was the anti-Playstation, a console with an entirely different philosophy. If third parties didn't want to support a console that went head to head with Sony (because they can just support Sony and be content), maybe they'll support a console very different from it.

See, Nintendo has tried; their strategies just haven't worked. They weren't bad ideas, but Nintendo, unfortunately got stonewalled anyway. I don't think that's necessarily Iwata's fault. Would someone else have been able to do better? Maybe, maybe not. I'm leaning toward "not" because if you look back, Nintendo's problems go all the way back to the NES and SNES. They got support begrudgingly. Nintendo was building bad will generation after generation and it's hard to come back from that.

Since Nintendo doesn't have a time machine to prevent those rifts with third parties before they happen, it seems like their main issue right now is the lack of their own software because it's rather difficult to make money without things to sell. That is partially Iwata's fault, but I'd rather Nintendo continue withholding games until they're finished than trotting out poorly made garbage just to have something out. That's a possible reality with someone else in charge. That's even shorter sighted thinking than we're used to from Nintendo. Replacing Iwata doesn't sound like such a fantastic idea in that case, does it?

When Iwata succeeded Yamauchi, it was planned and they had a strategy in place which, again, didn't work, but at least the transition was smooth. If someone replaced Iwata, they're "stuck" with the Wii U for the next few years. It's quite a bit more complicated for a hardware company like Nintendo. "Hi, I'm new. Make games for us, plz?"

Ultimately, I think Nintendo will be okay after this rocky start once their games start coming out. Listening to third parties' faulty reasoning for not supporting Wii U, they weren't going to support Wii U with or without better hardware, so I'm content with what Nintendo released because $350 was pushing it, any more would have been an immediate no sale.

Still, that only takes care of one of Nintendo's issues and the others need to be addressed. Restructuring their hardware divisions was an important and underrated move as well as a good start. It's a shame how far apart Nintendo's consoles and handhelds are and have been. I'm surprised this took so long. There have been minor efforts to get them to work together, but really, they barely connect and that was wasteful.

As far as third parties go, Nintendo should spend the next 2-3 years interviewing and reinterviewing every publisher, developer, and middleware provider separately (which is important because they'll all give different answers) and ask what they want from the next handheld and console for say, a 2016 launch for both. That cuts the Wii U lifespan a bit shorter than their other consoles, but that may be for the best and it's not without precedent. Microsoft replaced Xbox in four years and Nintendo themselves effectively replaced GBA in three and a half. Nintendo won't fill every request, but they should get the basics right as many will ask for the same things. This is something Iwata can do, but if someone else is tasked with it, they really should start now.

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2013, 09:52:52 AM »
I'm not sure what more Nintendo could do. They listened to third parties in the design of the hardware, made it cheaper and easier to develop for and gave third parties a greater share of the revenue. Short of outright buying support, I don't think they can do much more than they already have. No matter who's in charge, unless they have some kind of mind control powers it doesn't seem like it'll make much difference.
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Offline Oblivion

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2013, 10:02:40 AM »
According to the mindless commenters on various gaming websites, they think Nintendo should have Metroid, Zelda, Mario, etc. at launch, and until then, the Wii U is a piece of ****. It's like they don't even care about third party games on the system.

Offline alegoicoe

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2013, 01:56:14 PM »
I don't think it's fair to lay it all at Yamauchi's feet. Third parties have a plethora of platforms to choose from, and Nintendo is just one choice out of many. Add that to Nintendo's sense of individuality (or non-conformity, if you will), and the gaming landscape is simply different now from when Yamauchi ran things.

But as for droughts in general, it's been a problem for Nintendo ever since the N64, and maybe ever since the GameBoy too. I think it's got a lot to do not just with Nintendo's quirkiness, but also with a philosophy that supports game delays in the name of quality, thereby implicitly prioritizing a game's final quality over a game's fitting into a schedule.

That may be difficult for Nintendo if they were trying to dominate the entire market and start a new Nintendo-Ruled Dynasty, but I think I benefit more as a consumer and fan if they prioritize making quality games for me to play.


And having to dust off the WiiU every so often, come on. Nintendo needs to get their **** together if they want to improve the sales of the system. I don't mean get in bed with every Western developer, but surely try to make more effort with third parties and unload some that Wii cash. Why the hell didn't Tomb Raider make it to WiiU, who knows, but there is no excuse why that game is absent from the WiiU game library as well as Bioshock Infinite to give another example. Nintendo needs to start making some deals pronto, especially with Japanese third parties, for example, Bring Metal Gear 5 to Wii U damn it!!!
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2013, 02:38:33 PM »
Quote
I'm curious what all the Iwata-should-step-down and Reggie-should-be-fired people think their replacements should do rectify Nintendo's woes.

Well I think Nintendo has been too isolated from the rest of the industry and as a result they make incredibly dumb mistakes that anyone with the slightest familiarity with the general videogame industry spots a mile away.  They're consistently behind the standards of online play and internal storage and really obvious stuff like that.  They don't even have accounts and tie stuff into the physical hardware.  Who the hell releases a product like that in 2012?  Nintendo either is so isolated that they had no idea there was a different way to do it or their corporate culture is such that if someone spoke up about it, he was ignored.  Iwata's successor should change that.  Not everything has to be re-invented in some Nintendo way.  That approach is good for creating innovative gameplay ideas but it is not appropriate for much beyond that.  No one wants some new approach to saving games or connecting online with their friends.
 
I would also want Iwata's successor to restore what I consider essential parts of Nintendo's character that made them great in the first place.  First of all controls need to be tight and responsive and designed for what works best for the game, not what will market well to casuals.  They can keep gimmicks but traditional controls should also be available as a standard (not some extra optional controller) and traditional control options should be available when applicable.  The top priority should be to make a great game and great games don't have wonky controls as the only option.
 
Second of all Nintendo games should strive to be essential, innovative and ambitious.  Cookie cutter sequels do not cut it and even from a sales perspective, you don't sell consoles on the same gameplay as last gen.  No one HAS to buy a Wii U for NSMB U's gameplay experience because it is not distinct enough from similar games on the DS and Wii.  Nintendo should do it first or do it best.  Anything else is just a filler title and that development can be done doing something else.  I think the Nintendo name is what should be the truly valuable brand instead of Mario or Zelda or Pokemon.  That way Nintendo can get people to pay attention to damn near anything they release and can slowly replace any existing IP that the market loses interest in.
 
I think the casual market was a fad and should be focused on less in favour of the market that can be counted on to continue to buy games on a regular basis.  At the very least Iwata's successor should understand that "everyone" games are not for everyone and that teenagers and young adults have little interest in playing the same games as children and middle-aged adults.  The library can be for "everyone" in that it covers multiple genres and demographics.  The individual games cannot be and attempts to make such games just alienate the demographics outside the lowest common denominator.  The Wii alienated a section of the customerbase because of its perceived casual focus.  Iwata's successor should be well aware of this.  Nintendo shouldn't be seen as making kids games or casual games but just videogames PERIOD.  Only then will they be the "everyone" company they want to be.
 
In regards to third party support, I think the Wii U as a console is incapable of attracting support because the hardware is not designed to be comparable to the next generation and its Wii style branding associates it with the Wii which was not popular with third parties.  Nintendo has to offer the same type of hardware as the rest of the industry because multiplatform development is what third parties want.  The Wii U is comparable to the OLD consoles that are about to be replaced so it does not work for multiplatform development.  If Nintendo wants to have unique functionality to set it apart, that's not a bad idea but it need to be an "AND" feature, not an "OR".  The Wii gave devs motion control INSTEAD of better hardware and no one wanted that, partially because it didn't allow for multiplatform development and partially because it pigeonholes development towards only certain types of games.  The console should be a big sandbox for devs to play around in, including ways Nintendo did not necessarily plan to do themselves.
 
I don't know what to do with the Wii U though, because I don't think it can be fixed and it is not future proof at all.  Iwata's successor can accomplish little if handcuffed by a the Wii U.  So he'll either have to do what he can to hang on for this generation or he should kill the damn thing off ASAP (with a small userbase it will piss off less customers) and get something out around a similar time frame as the Xbox 360 successor that will actually compare to the other consoles in terms of hardware power.  If Nintendo could get away with a blatant DOA ripoff like the DSi, maybe they can get away with a two year lifespanned Wii U (or maybe three years for a 2015 release).  The Wii U's only chance is if the market rejects the next generation and forces Sony and MS to stick with the PS3 and Xbox 360.  As hardware improves, development takes longer and Nintendo cannot create games at a quick enough pace to fill a healthy release schedule.  The market will probably dictate if they can make it through the Wii U years of if the console gets replaced early.

Offline alegoicoe

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2013, 02:55:31 PM »
Quote
I'm curious what all the Iwata-should-step-down and Reggie-should-be-fired people think their replacements should do rectify Nintendo's woes.


I don't know what to do with the Wii U though, because I don't think it can be fixed and it is not future proof at all.  Iwata's successor can accomplish little if handcuffed by a the Wii U.  So he'll either have to do what he can to hang on for this generation or he should kill the damn thing off ASAP (with a small userbase it will piss off less customers) and get something out around a similar time frame as the Xbox 360 successor that will actually compare to the other consoles in terms of hardware power.  If Nintendo could get away with a blatant DOA ripoff like the DSi, maybe they can get away with a two year lifespanned Wii U (or maybe three years for a 2015 release).  The Wii U's only chance is if the market rejects the next generation and forces Sony and MS to stick with the PS3 and Xbox 360.  As hardware improves, development takes longer and Nintendo cannot create games at a quick enough pace to fill a healthy release schedule.  The market will probably dictate if they can make it through the Wii U years of if the console gets replaced early.


I think Nintendo can ride out the WiiU if things turn sour, I mean there is still two years before we really start seeing the power of the so called next generation, so Nintendo at least has some time to impress at least with their own games. I don't think Wii U will have as bad as Gamecube did,  but unless Nintendo takes a proactive approach and start moving the right pieces its gonna be close.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2013, 03:05:58 PM »
1. Did anyone ever wonder if third parties are merely tolerating Sony and Microsoft like they tolerated Nintendo in the 1980s and 1990s? What if they're playing nice and keeping their mouths shut because they don't have real alternatives? Both of them have some really stupid policies as well...

2. I wish your Internet privileges were revoked for a week every time you fail to acknowledge that the GamePad is a standard, traditional controller with a screen on it or claim it's this dumb-dumb marketing tool for ignorant casual gamer folk. It's literally a Pro Controller with extra functionality.

3. Nintendo is guilty of cookie cutter sequels far less frequently than other companies. It's sad and unfair that Nintendo is given **** for this, but other companies are not. God of War is essentially the same game six times over. This is coming from a God of War fan. If every other company gets to release safe sequels, Nintendo deserves that right as well especially since they do make an effort to innovate more often.

4. People used to say video games were a fad. It would have stayed that way if not for Nintendo. Funny how people forget that when they throw that word "fad" around.

5. You keeping saying that about the hardware, but kindly explain the GameCube which was better hardware than PS2. Nintendo already tried competing on hardware and it didn't work. PS3/360 are NOT getting replaced for another couple of years because their successors are apparently launching at $500. **** that noise. Blaming the hardware is a total cop out. Great games can still be made on PS3/360 and Wii U is more capable. Anyone claiming otherwise is full of ****.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 03:28:56 PM by Adrock »

Offline broodwars

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2013, 03:30:13 PM »
1. Did anyone ever wonder if third parties are merely tolerating Sony and Microsoft like they tolerated Nintendo in the 1980s and 1990s? What if they're playing nice and keeping their mouths shut because they don't have real alternatives? Both of them have some really stupid policies as well...

If that was the case, you'd have heard about it by now. The Indie developers in particular haven't been the least bit shy about dishing out the dirt on Microsoft's bad policies, while meanwhile we've heard little but praise about Sony's.  Sony's truly bad policies were in the PS1 days, just as Nintendo's were in the NES/SNES days.

2. I wish your Internet privileges were revoked for a week every time you fail to acknowledge that the GamePad is a standard, traditional controller with a screen on it or claim it's this dumb-dumb marketing tool for ignorant casual gamer folk. It's literally a Pro Controller with extra functionality.

Well, IMO the sheer bulk of the GamePad along with the non-standard placement of the twin sticks makes the GamePad not a standard, traditional controller, "just with a screen on it."  It's just not a controller I want to use, especially since you can't turn that screen off while the controller's in use.  The Pro Controller is better through the removal of the screen and the subsequent smaller size/mass of the controller, but the placement of the sticks has always bothered me.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 03:34:27 PM by broodwars »
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2013, 03:33:28 PM »
Sony's policies may have gotten better, but their bad reputation comes from making hardware that is overly-difficult to develop for.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture
« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2013, 03:41:51 PM »
In regards to third party support, I think the Wii U as a console is incapable of attracting support because the hardware is not designed to be comparable to the next generation and its Wii style branding associates it with the Wii which was not popular with third parties.  Nintendo has to offer the same type of hardware as the rest of the industry because multiplatform development is what third parties want.  The Wii U is comparable to the OLD consoles that are about to be replaced so it does not work for multiplatform development.  If Nintendo wants to have unique functionality to set it apart, that's not a bad idea but it need to be an "AND" feature, not an "OR".  The Wii gave devs motion control INSTEAD of better hardware and no one wanted that, partially because it didn't allow for multiplatform development and partially because it pigeonholes development towards only certain types of games.  The console should be a big sandbox for devs to play around in, including ways Nintendo did not necessarily plan to do themselves.

I don't think creating bleeding edge, future-proof hardware at high cost to all parties involved (consumers, developers, and platform holders) is at all a part of Nintendo's prevailing philosophy/culture. See: Gunpei Yokoi's philosophy of "Lateral Thinking of Withered Technology".

I'm not saying you don't have a point, but I think you're talking about changing one of the core tenets of what's made Nintendo "Nintendo."
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 03:43:45 PM by Kairon »
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