Author Topic: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?  (Read 39760 times)

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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2012, 10:48:46 AM »
Any console that has the best game ever is #1 - and that game is WaveRace 64, so N64 wins.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2012, 12:18:34 PM »
One thing that made the N64 years a little more tolerable was that although the third party support was frustrating, I saw it as Nintendo making one big mistake by going with cartridges but otherwise doing things right.  We had crap third party support entirely because of the cartridges and Ninendo would get back on track next gen.  Of course that didn't happen and I learned just how clueless and stubborn Nintendo really is.  At the time the N64 was an anomoly but during the Gamecube generation it became clear that this was the norm now (and it continued with the Wii).

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Offline Adrock

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2012, 12:35:46 PM »
It wasn't just cartridges. Yamauchi intentionally had the hardware be difficult to program for to deter bad developers but that was a major **** you to ALL developers. Why should they work harder just to make games for Nintendo hardware?

Nintendo does learn from their mistakes. Yamauchi intentionally had GameCube hardware be easy to develop for. Damage done, but they try. Nintendo can be stubborn but not everything was stubbornness. Nintendo has always forged their own path rather than try to one up their competition. Sometimes, it works. Sometimes, it doesn't. I don't think it's fair to say that everything they due is because they're stubborn and clueless.

Offline Kairon

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2012, 12:37:40 PM »
Plus, the N64 has Body Harvest. One of the most ambitious games of its time. And I loved it. :)

Yet another N64 Gem I've forgotten. Man I loved DMA... even Space Station Silicon Valley!
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2012, 02:30:03 PM »
It wasn't just cartridges. Yamauchi intentionally had the hardware be difficult to program for to deter bad developers but that was a major **** you to ALL developers. Why should they work harder just to make games for Nintendo hardware?

Nintendo does learn from their mistakes. Yamauchi intentionally had GameCube hardware be easy to develop for. Damage done, but they try. Nintendo can be stubborn but not everything was stubbornness. Nintendo has always forged their own path rather than try to one up their competition. Sometimes, it works. Sometimes, it doesn't. I don't think it's fair to say that everything they due is because they're stubborn and clueless.

Not everything they do is because they're stubborn and clueless, just the stuff they screw up that we all spot a hundred miles away.  Unfortunately that's a little too frequent.

At the time I was unaware that the N64 was intentionally difficult to work with.  I just saw that most of the formerly loyal third parties like Square and Capcom had moved to the Playstation and cartridges cost more for LESS space.  That was just such an obvious justfication for a third party to bail that I never assumed anything else would be a factor.  I don't know if the difficult nature of the hardware alone would have driven third parties away.  It was clearly the cartridges that was the deciding factor.  The cost difference is just insane.  Nintendo was essentially asking third parties to accept significantly smaller profits... and for what?  So Nintendo can sell more systems and make more money off of third party licencing?  There was ZERO benefit for the third party.  Nintendo could have been the most friendly and accomodating company to work with in the world and third parties would still have bailed because of the cartridges.

Offline Louieturkey

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2012, 03:30:38 PM »
Am I also the only one who liked Double Dash more than MK64?  Adrock mentions the infuriating AI, yet I found it the best of all the Mario Karts and much less infuriating than the 64 AI.  Am I the only one who enjoyed playing Double Dash?  It was so smooth and easy to feel the game.  The only MK that comes close is the DS version.

Offline Kairon

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2012, 03:32:44 PM »
Am I also the only one who liked Double Dash more than MK64?  Adrock mentions the infuriating AI, yet I found it the best of all the Mario Karts and much less infuriating than the 64 AI.  Am I the only one who enjoyed playing Double Dash?  It was so smooth and easy to feel the game.  The only MK that comes close is the DS version.

I'm starting to think that for every Mario Kart game, there is a subsection of Nintendo fans ardently in love with it over the others.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2012, 03:46:48 PM »
I loved Mario Kart 64 at the time, but it really hasn't aged well. It had a lot of good tracks and battle courses, but most of those have been included in more recent games that played a lot better.
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Offline Louieturkey

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2012, 03:48:22 PM »
I loved Mario Kart 64 at the time, but it really hasn't aged well. It had a lot of good tracks and battle courses, but most of those have been included in more recent games that played a lot better.
I think the battle courses are the only things I liked about it.  They were definitely better than the vs courses on DD or MKW I think (though I haven't played enough of the MKW ones, so I'll hold judgement on those).

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2012, 04:15:50 PM »
Block Fort beats anything the series has done since.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2012, 04:29:47 PM »
Mario Kart 64 as a technical achievement was very impressive at the time compared to Super Mario Kart.  Remember that SMK is only two players and its tracks are completely flat.  MK64 had four player splitscreen multiplayer and since it was the first to use polygons the tracks actually could go up and down and such.  SMK doesn't even let you see the whole screen in single player.  Visually it was looking dated before the N64 was even released.  Also the N64 having four controller ports standard was a big deal and MK64 was the first game that really showed that off.  For many MK64 was the first time they ever played a four player racing game!  The game could have been very average but that alone would have made it an instant classic.

Unfortunately out-of-context MK64 is less impressive so playing it now, when the conventions it introduced or popularized are cliche the games comes across as rough and the cheating AI is REALLY noticable.  I've realized that SMK has become my favourite Mario Kart because I love the battle mode and because it lacks annoying power-ups like the Blue Shell.

My biggest beef with Mario Kart DD is that it was clear that it was time for online Mario Kart and Nintendo basically threw a hissy fit and refused to join the rest of the world.  That was the logical progression of the series.  Instead we got the two-people-per-kart mechanic that came across as really forced.  It was like Nintendo realized without online play Mario Kart for the Cube would just be prettier Mario Kart 64 so they came up with same contrived idea to give the game so purpose for existing other than releasing some Mario Kart product for the Gamecube.

Deep down I've realized that Mario Kart has been a pretty damn broken series from the get go with its cheating AI.  The trend to handicap in favour of the people in last place has made it worse.  It's a series that seems like it should be good (it's Mario racing, who wouldn't like that?) but I find I never enjoy playing it as much as it seems like I should.  It seems every game in the series has some frustrating flaw to it.  F-Zero is more up my alley.

Offline rlse9

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2012, 06:13:56 PM »
I agree about Mario Kart 64, it may not be that impressive looking back but at the time it was something really special with it's 4 player mode.  Regardless of how it plays now, at the time it was innovative and exciting and was one of the best multiplayer experiences of its generation.

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2012, 06:25:59 PM »
I agree. I also agree with whoever said it that the N64 may still be the best console for local multiplayer to this day.
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Offline Louieturkey

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2012, 06:46:48 PM »
I agree. I also agree with whoever said it that the N64 may still be the best console for local multiplayer to this day.
I'll agree with this as well.  Though the Wii definitely is giving it a run for its money.  My wife and I have played more games together on the Wii than any other system (though we were married in 2006 so that probably has a little something to do with it :P: ).

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2012, 06:50:55 PM »
You know how some of us get on Nintendo's ass for not having their own FPS series and how they probably should get Retro doing it?  The N64 is a big reason for that.  Goldeneye was undoubtably one of the most popular games on the N64.  In America is might have been THE most popular.  Perfect Dark didn't sell quite as well but critically was considered one of the system's best games.  The N64 was the FPS console of its gen.  The Rare shooters were the main reason for it but it also had Turok and later EA made their own Bond FPS.  All of those were N64 exclusive.  In comparison the Playstation had dick all for FPS games unless you wanted to play scaled down ports of PC shooters (and the N64 had those as well anyway).

That had become a key part of the "Nintendo experience" and Nintendo completely pissed that away on the Cube.  They got rid of Rare and failed to provide any sort of replacement for Perfect Dark.  Years later we got Geist from the Olsen Twins games guys as if THAT was ever going to be a suitable replacement and then nothing since.  Nintendo went from having the best console for FPS games to having the WORST.  It was like if after all the success of Mario on the NES Nintendo just abandoned platformers completely on the SNES.  They took one of the trademark hits of the N64 era and just ditched it.

You suggest the idea of Nintendo FPS and get all sorts of grumbling "FPS games suck are all brown" responses.  That's total revisionist history.  Nintendo had the first console FPS that anyone thought was worth a ****.  This wasn't some niche title, it was easily one of the top three most beloved games on the system (Mario 64 and OoT being the other two).  This was one of the few games that Playstation owners felt deprived of.  Now the only userbase that feels deprived of the sort of experience Goldeneye provided are Nintendo fans.

And I think that's a real problem Nintendo has: they don't really stop and think "what did people like about our previous system?"  The SNES is THE RPG system and the N64 not only is a barrent wasteland for RPGs but Nintendo spends a fair bit of effort trying to convince their fanbase that RPG's suck.  How do you possible expect anyone but the most dick sucking fanboy to buy that?  There were SNES owners for which their favourite games were the Final Fantasy series and they all left and Nintendo deserved to lose them.  The N64 was the FPS system and the Cube was incredibly weak in that regard.  That's just handing sales to the Xbox with Halo.  If Nintendo was actually in touch they would realize they were missing key genres that used to be identified with their systems and they would make an effort to address it.  But they don't and they pay for it.

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2012, 07:22:29 PM »
The thing about Mario Kart 64 is that is perfected the formula.  The blue turtle shell was perfect in that game.  The multiple shells, and holding a shell back for defense everything was perfect...so even with cheating AI and giving last place better items, it was pretty balanced.

That all changed after the blue turtle became explosive, and became worse with the more outlandish special weapons.  I think Nintendo needs to go back to the original formula, and just make a new Mario Kart following the exact same formula of the Mario Kart 64, but adding better tracks, HD graphics, simplify the weapons.  Keep the drifting and boosts from the other games, and perhaps even the hang glider stuff, but make the weapons balanced again. 


Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2012, 08:53:10 PM »
I like Mario Kart 64 better than any others (though the DS game is pretty great too). Ever since Double Dash the games just feel slow and not very fun, the Karts are all too loose or something, it just doesn't feel right.
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Offline LOZman

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2012, 09:05:46 PM »
Am I also the only one who liked Double Dash more than MK64?  Adrock mentions the infuriating AI, yet I found it the best of all the Mario Karts and much less infuriating than the 64 AI.  Am I the only one who enjoyed playing Double Dash?  It was so smooth and easy to feel the game.  The only MK that comes close is the DS version.


I completely agree! I often feel like I am the only person who values Double Dash above every other Mario Kart. Maybe it's just me, but I had no problem with the AI in the game. The idea of two players teaming up in one kart really excited me, even if the person in the back could only throw items. I would actually like them to bring the mechanic to the next MK, even though I doubt that would ever happen.

Offline Kairon

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2012, 09:10:39 PM »
My brother always drove in DD and I was the back-seat player. It takes real finesse to do a side-attack at just the right moment to avoid item attacks or help with turns.
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Offline Shaymin

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2012, 09:37:59 PM »
My brother always drove in DD and I was the banana bitch. It takes real finesse to do a side-attack at just the right moment to avoid item attacks or help with turns.

Fixed that for you.
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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2012, 09:41:39 PM »
I think the track designs and speed of Mario Kart series have been getting, better and better each game.  I like Double Dash a lot...specially the track design.  However, that said...Nintendo just kept on screwing up the weapons making them worse and worse...and less fun. 

Nintendo needs to realize that weapons NEED to be balanced.  You can have more powerful weapons, and giving them to last place makes sense...but the blue turtle shell explosion is stupid.  Let it be on the ground, and potentially hit all players...make it be avoidable.  Let the game be more about skill please.

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2012, 09:46:33 PM »
There should be options. Weapon distribution the current way, a more balanced way, completely random no matter what place you're in, or off entirely. Preferably with the ability to play that way online, unlike the weapon switcher in recent games.
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Offline LOZman

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #47 on: June 27, 2012, 09:48:08 PM »
My brother always drove in DD and I was the back-seat player. It takes real finesse to do a side-attack at just the right moment to avoid item attacks or help with turns.


That's exactly how it was with me and my brother!

Offline Kairon

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #48 on: June 27, 2012, 09:50:26 PM »
My brother always drove in DD and I was the back-seat player. It takes real finesse to do a side-attack at just the right moment to avoid item attacks or help with turns.

That's exactly how it was with me and my brother!

It's great! I honestly would not be averse to seeing this make a return in future MK games.
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Offline gojira

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Re: Which was better: Nintendo 64 or Gamecube?
« Reply #49 on: June 27, 2012, 11:20:55 PM »
It's really close for me.  I love both systems and they have a lot of amazing games.  But I'll give the edge to Gamecube just for Metroid Prime.  I love the Metroid series and the N64 not having one is a shame.