Author Topic: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?  (Read 20847 times)

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Offline Adrock

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2012, 07:58:02 AM »
Most of the western studios and gaming press seem like they'd be pleased if Nintendo just gave up the ghost and stopped causing them headaches/obligatory port development costs.
What is "obligatory" modifying in that sentence, ports or development costs? Neither of them are obligatory because porting is done on their own volition and costs are only obligatory after they choose to port. I'm not just trying to be a grammar Nazi. I just don't know what you mean. If Western studios want Nintendo to just give up or they don't want to support Nintendo, they can just continue to not support Nintendo. If they do choose to support Nintendo, they expect to get something out of it. They wouldn't support Nintendo out of the goodness of their heart.
I just doubt that people aren't going to see this as a new console experience. It clearly is. The price point will only reinforce that. If people think they're going to pay 300-upwards for a new peripheral, they're idiots.
Again, some people are idiots. That's why we're having this discussion.
...better Google this...
Let Me Google That For You exists because people don't google things. Googling is one of the easiest things you can do on the Internet and yet people are still willing to ask someone to explain it to them AND wait for the answer rather than look for the answer themselves and get it instantly. So, no, I don't trust people to google things they're not knowledgeable about. It would benefit Nintendo to just assume everyone is too stupid to figure things out. The people who aren't stupid don't care one way or another; they'll know either way. The people who are stupid have everything dumbed down to the point where they're way more likely to get it. If they don't get it at that point, they're just never going to. It's an extra precaution that would be worth the effort.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 01:21:05 PM by Adrock »



Offline UncleBob

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2012, 12:52:14 PM »
Just some random guy on the internet who has a different opinion of games than you.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2012, 01:13:38 PM »
^What is this I don't even...

Anyway, I think a heavy part of pulling the sales off is going to be advertising. So we should also wait until some marketing has appeared on TV and the internet before even getting into this subject.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2012, 01:17:50 PM »
Lol, that video was a good find. I really did laugh at that part when the guy was driving the car in the game.

I wonder what sort of news reports the Wii U is going to get this holiday season. Hopefully there will be some we can look back on years from now and laugh at, just like that one.
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Offline MagicCow64

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2012, 06:16:38 PM »
That just highlights to me that a truly astounding amount of people bought Wiis as novelty gadgets and never used them again after they got tired of Wii Sports/Fit.


I really am unconvinced with this myth. The Wii has a tie ratio above 7 last I checked. That tells me that people are buying games beyond just Wii Sports and Wii Fit.

Anecdotally speaking, I've seen quite a lot of that (toss in Wii Fit and Rock Band, maybe), but admittedly that doesn't equal data. A quick check here http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Software_tie_ratio has the Wii at 6, Xbox 360 at 7.5, and PS3 at 4.5 (youch). On the face of it, the Wii doesn't look like it's doing much worse than the 360, and significantly better than the PS3, but I think the problem here is time scale/customer density. I suspect the reality is that some large amount of people received Wiis as Christmas gifts (for instance) with a few games and never did much beyond that after a year or two, while there was a natural 20-30 million Nintendo fan base (Gamecube audience) that had a much higher tie-rate across time, heavily skewed toward Nintendo IPs. I'd be curious to see charts plotting console sales and total game sales over time for all three consoles. Otherwise it's difficult to explain the Wii software story compared to the 360/PS3, unless all those "casual" users were picking up a scattering of Chicken Shoot type games at random in such a way that individual titles never dented the charts but added up to a lot in aggregate.

Like, if 50 million users buy 3 games between 2006 and 2008, and then stop, while the remaining 40 million buy 15 games between 2006 and 2012, you could get closer to an overall 6 tie-in, while having a pretty anemic new game market after 2008. (Obviously this would have to be scaled over time to account for the total pool of Wiis starting at 0 and getting to 92 million in the present.)

Although it's also surprising that the 360 only has a 7.5. I assumed it would be over 10.


Offline Oblivion

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2012, 06:18:44 PM »
That data you linked is 4 and a half years old. The ration is probably completely different now.

Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2012, 07:50:26 PM »
You know why the attach rate for the 360 is so low? It's because the amount of owners who have purchased more than 360 console because the last one red ringed is probably one in three, possibly higher. This brings down the games purchased per system average down.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2012, 12:16:36 AM »
You know why the attach rate for the 360 is so low? It's because the amount of owners who have purchased more than 360 console because the last one red ringed is probably one in three, possibly higher. This brings down the games purchased per system average down.

The PS3 has a similar failure rate on its old PHAT model with its YLOD.
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Offline MagicCow64

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2012, 10:57:16 AM »
That data you linked is 4 and a half years old. The ration is probably completely different now.

Roops, it is indeed old data. Oddly, a more thorough search has not come up with anything fresher than 2009, though it did unsurprisingly verify that Nintendo published titles make up an outsized portion of total Wii game sales.

I can't find the quote, but didn't Nintendo admit that they had a problem?

Anyway, to connect this a bit more with the point of the thread, Wii game shelf space has steadily shrunk in the retailers I've been to in NYC over the last three years, and having the same white cases for WiiU probably isn't going to help the consumer psychology.

Offline Kairon

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2012, 02:51:48 PM »
I definitely think in the last couple years the share of Nintendo in terms of software has dropped. This is also partly tied into the amount of new Wii hardware that Nintendo is moving. I think this is simply a matter of two very simple, straightforward things as opposed to any grand sweeping shift in consumer behavior:

1. The Wii is at the end of its console life cycle. Nintendo seems to be more in line with a traditional 5-year cycle with their system versus the longer tails and higher future-proofing of the XBox 360 and PS3 hardware. As a result I'm not too surprised to see Wii software and hardware slowing down.

2. The Wii doesn't have the third-party support that would traditionally hide/make-up-for the shift of first-party resources into new console development. As a result, this makes the petering-off effect even more apparent.

Also, as regards tie-ratios, I know it's not official, but Gamasutra has a decent enough rep that I feel relatively safe using their informed speculation as regards to tie-ratios:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/6350/npd_behind_the_numbers_march_2011.php?page=3
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Offline Louieturkey

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2012, 03:29:08 PM »
You know why the attach rate for the 360 is so low? It's because the amount of owners who have purchased more than 360 console because the last one red ringed is probably one in three, possibly higher. This brings down the games purchased per system average down.

The PS3 has a similar failure rate on its old PHAT model with its YLOD.
No it does not.  Small accounts on internet forums do not make up the failure rate of the 360. 

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2012, 04:31:25 PM »
You know why the attach rate for the 360 is so low? It's because the amount of owners who have purchased more than 360 console because the last one red ringed is probably one in three, possibly higher. This brings down the games purchased per system average down.

The PS3 has a similar failure rate on its old PHAT model with its YLOD.
No it does not.  Small accounts on internet forums do not make up the failure rate of the 360. 

Well, according to Brandogg the failure rates are about the same, and since he fixes consoles for a living I have faith that he knows what he's talking about.
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Offline MagicCow64

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2012, 07:40:09 PM »
I definitely think in the last couple years the share of Nintendo in terms of software has dropped. This is also partly tied into the amount of new Wii hardware that Nintendo is moving. I think this is simply a matter of two very simple, straightforward things as opposed to any grand sweeping shift in consumer behavior:

1. The Wii is at the end of its console life cycle. Nintendo seems to be more in line with a traditional 5-year cycle with their system versus the longer tails and higher future-proofing of the XBox 360 and PS3 hardware. As a result I'm not too surprised to see Wii software and hardware slowing down.

2. The Wii doesn't have the third-party support that would traditionally hide/make-up-for the shift of first-party resources into new console development. As a result, this makes the petering-off effect even more apparent.

Also, as regards tie-ratios, I know it's not official, but Gamasutra has a decent enough rep that I feel relatively safe using their informed speculation as regards to tie-ratios:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/6350/npd_behind_the_numbers_march_2011.php?page=3

Good link, I think it seems perfectly trustable. Salient bit, per my previous hypothesizing:

"In the 15 months prior to that period (i.e. from October 2008 through December 2009), we estimate that the breakdown was 48 percent for the Wii, 32 percent for the Xbox 360, and 20 percent for the PlayStation 3. The key dynamic at play here is that Wii software unit sales dropped by over 25 percent from the first 15-month period to the second while PlayStation 3 software grew by 18 percent. Software unit sales for the Xbox 360 were basically flat between the two 15-month periods.
 This is a point we've made before, and one that's worth making here again: Wii hardware and software sales are still at healthy levels, for the moment."

It's been nearly 15 months since this report, so I think you could posit another big percentage shift away from the Wii, despite it having the highest install base, while new software hits are still coming out regularly for PS360. This makes it a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem to me; did third-parties stop supporting the Wii because software sales were dropping precipitously, or did software sales drop precipitously because third-parties stopped supporting the Wii?

The article also possibly backs up my previous theory, that while console sales and software share dropped off, a sturdy core of Nintendo supporters was able to push the tie-ratio up over time, though helped by occasional cultural break-outs like the Just Dance games. 

I guess I'm just not confidant that there's enough different about the WiiU's appearance and tonal presentation to lure enough third parties back to the table to give it another go-round for traditional titles.





Offline EasyCure

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2012, 10:44:41 PM »
I'm just going to say this: If people just bought a Wii and nothing else, the attach ratio wouldn't have been near PS3 levels for the longest time. The revisionist history (now hardware sales don't determine first place in konsole warz?) and anger from the typical message board hardcore (who is increasingly more obnoxious with every year with their annoying entitlement and hatred of other people entering their hobby) for the Wii and now Wii U is just sad to me. I sort of hope the Wii U does extremely well, just to see the whining and excuses being made by the Western press and gamers. It will be a sight to behold just like it was this past generation with the Wii's success. Because between gamers and Nintendo, I have to choose the lesser of two evils, and that's unfortunately Nintendo.


I like this guy..

That just highlights to me that a truly astounding amount of people bought Wiis as novelty gadgets and never used them again after they got tired of Wii Sports/Fit.

I really am unconvinced with this myth. The Wii has a tie ratio above 7 last I checked. That tells me that people are buying games beyond just Wii Sports and Wii Fit.

Remember, people who complain about these sort of things on the internet don't count Zumba Fitness and Just Dance as real games, so to them they might as well be Wii Sports and Wii Fit.

The Wii U appears to be an entertainment system, and its controller, online play and digital distribution, and social possibility are much more appealing than anything else people are selling right now, especially from a casual standpoint.


...I don't mean to sound preachy with what I think, so I apologize if I come off that way.

Another smarty, I'm digging these new users.. And you're not preachy, don't worry. Even if you were, it's better than being a condescending prick who hates on the internet as their only form of social interaction outside of hating people on an online-multiplayer game ;)


My take on the matter? It will boil down to advertising. Say what you will, but Nintendo really does try to get the word out there. First of all, they have the Nintendo World Store in NYC right in Rockefeller Plaza, a few blocks from Times Square - ie tourist overload. Now I haven't been there recently, but the giant displays they have on the corner glass-windows and the bright blue lights sure to catch your eye if you're in the area. Hell, I'm shocked how hard NBC goes to hide NWS from their shots in the Plaza during the Today show and anything else they film down there.

Besides that, they do those mall tours and music festivals. I haven't heard about any such music festival this summer but I'm pretty sure the mall tour is guaranteed. People like us probably don't care about it, unless we're desperate to try out the new hardware, but this too draws a crowd and helps spread the word.

Now you have to take into account, if Nintendo is serious about making the Wii U a more social console platform, they'd likely try a bigger on-line marketing blitz  thatn they've ever done in the past. - since I'm not really into the social networking thing (I literally just made a facebook account like a week ago..) I don't know how that would work, but they'll try to get the word out how not only you'll get to experience new games on a new console with a new controller, but oh look it can act like a tablet web browser and has tweet-like features for it's game! In fact, any word on if they'll let you do any type of facebook integration with your Wii U friend-code/acct? If not, I'm surprised considering everything is tied to that site these days.

Lastly, good ol' fashion TV marketing. Those Wii Will Play ads were all over the place back in the day. Expect something similar, geared toward showing off the Game Pad yes, but likely getting the point across that this is a new console. Even if it doesn't, it would drive up enough interest to get people out to the stores and check it out, and with the economy still being pretty bad, I'd expect even the dumbest consumers to be either a little more informed from the get go, but at least more willing to ask questions - no matter how stupid.

In the end why does this all matter to us anyway? Mom goes out and buys a wii instead of a Wii U, she'll return it and get the new one instead, if she complains and thinks Nintendo somehow deceived her, so what? It won't be the end of Nintendo and as long as the sales keep coming, retailers will just see it as an opportunity to unload old Wii game stock as long as they make sure to take the initiative and inform the consumer the system is backwards compatible. This would only help during the holiday season when all the titles we call shovelware are discounted more so than they already are, a smart retailer will be able to sell a Wii U with old Wii games and finally unload all those games while giving the customer a bargain.
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Offline Ymeegod

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2012, 11:00:44 PM »
? Your tie ratio's are a bit off, right now all three systems are avg around 10-10.5 to 1 in the states and roughly 9.5/8.5/8.25 globally.  In fact the tie ratio for US an Europe is very similar but it was the japanese market that made the biggest difference.  MS has the fewest units sold there but the attach ratio was nearly 7 to 1 vs PS3 and WII's 5 to 1 ratio.

Offline Oblivion

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2012, 01:23:42 AM »
Source? You know better than to throw stats around like that, especially after claiming that he was wrong.

Offline MagicCow64

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2012, 04:54:55 AM »
I'm just going to say this: If people just bought a Wii and nothing else, the attach ratio wouldn't have been near PS3 levels for the longest time. The revisionist history (now hardware sales don't determine first place in konsole warz?) and anger from the typical message board hardcore (who is increasingly more obnoxious with every year with their annoying entitlement and hatred of other people entering their hobby) for the Wii and now Wii U is just sad to me. I sort of hope the Wii U does extremely well, just to see the whining and excuses being made by the Western press and gamers. It will be a sight to behold just like it was this past generation with the Wii's success. Because between gamers and Nintendo, I have to choose the lesser of two evils, and that's unfortunately Nintendo.


I like this guy..

That just highlights to me that a truly astounding amount of people bought Wiis as novelty gadgets and never used them again after they got tired of Wii Sports/Fit.

I really am unconvinced with this myth. The Wii has a tie ratio above 7 last I checked. That tells me that people are buying games beyond just Wii Sports and Wii Fit.

Remember, people who complain about these sort of things on the internet don't count Zumba Fitness and Just Dance as real games, so to them they might as well be Wii Sports and Wii Fit.


Dear sweet Dingus, that wasn't the point.

Offline Ymeegod

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2012, 06:37:17 AM »
Vgchartz, also since some people question those numbers you can just find nintendo, microsoft, or sony annual stock reports and add up all the software totals from 2006-2012 and divide that by lifetime totals of units and you'll get the same result. 

Most of the chartz other people are stating is either out of date or just monthly which doesn't mean jack since one AAA game could case an high-spike for any said console. 

As this generation ends, less hardware is being sold monthly but software continues to sell so if anything the ratio's should be increasing with software being discounted at retailers. 
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 07:23:39 AM by Ymeegod »

Offline Ymeegod

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2012, 07:51:00 AM »
Nintendo's official numbers from their annual report 2012:Total sales of Nintendo 3DS during FY2012 were 13.53 million, with software at 36 million. LTD, 3DS sales are now at 17.13 million with software at 45.4 million units. Sales of the system had exceeded 5 million units LTD in Japan.
 
The vanilla DS line – DS, DS Lite, DSi and DSi XL – sold 5.1 million hardware units and 60.82 million software units in the FY. In its lifespan, the line has sold 151.52 million hardware units combined and 900.31 million units in software.
 
For Wii, Nintendo reported hardware sales of 9.84 million units in the FY with software at 102.37 million. Lifetime to date, Wii’s now sold 95.85 million units and 818.46 million software units.

---------------------------

You might say the numbers don't match what Vgchartz has but VGchartz counted bundled games in their ratios meaning Sports (100million) and Play (40+) were added. 


Offline ThePerm

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2012, 02:23:21 PM »
not counting costs of disc manufacturing
818,46 million x $50 = 40,923,000,000

**** it ill do the math, i think the usual estimate for disc prices is 3 cents
818.46 - 3% =793906200 * 50 = $39,695,310,000. 39.6 billion /6 = ....

6.6 billion a year off wii software sales.

The next set of math would figure out how much Nintendo makes alone per year on wii software sales. But i'm pressed for time. Heck, we could figure out how much the wii costs to manufacture if we found all the numbers. Oh algebra, why didn't i like you in high school? You're so handy. Oh, that's right you were presented in unacceptably vague terms with no real world consideration.
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2012, 10:07:15 PM »
Vgchartz

Why not just say "my numbers are pure BS"?
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Offline Louieturkey

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #46 on: June 16, 2012, 02:00:16 AM »
You know why the attach rate for the 360 is so low? It's because the amount of owners who have purchased more than 360 console because the last one red ringed is probably one in three, possibly higher. This brings down the games purchased per system average down.

The PS3 has a similar failure rate on its old PHAT model with its YLOD.
No it does not.  Small accounts on internet forums do not make up the failure rate of the 360. 

Well, according to Brandogg the failure rates are about the same, and since he fixes consoles for a living I have faith that he knows what he's talking about.
Yes, one man says it so it's obviously true.  Despite the fact that he fixes a lot of them, that doesn't change the fact that the 360s made from 2005 thru 2008 were a lot more prone to failure than PS3s made from 2006 thru 2009.   I never said they didn't fail, but every study during that time showed the 360 well above 10% failure and ps3 right around 10%. This one done by Squaretrade in 2009 shows this. There are others as well.

Offline Adrock

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #47 on: June 16, 2012, 09:43:09 PM »
So, this happened then, later on the show, this happened. For those who don't want to click the links, on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, Fallon seemed to have some trouble describing Wii U. He says, "This is the new thing. This is going to be- This is- this is the new system. You, uh, you add it to your Wii or you don't even need to use the Wii. Do you need to use the Wii?" Then, later in the show, Reggie demos the Wii U and makes it a point that say it's a new console. Yikes. I guess it's a good thing Jimmy Fallon is on so late.

Offline Kairon

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #48 on: June 16, 2012, 10:14:18 PM »
So, this happened then, later on the show, this happened. For those who don't want to click the links, on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, Fallon seemed to have some trouble describing Wii U. He says, "This is the new thing. This is going to be- This is- this is the new system. You, uh, you add it to your Wii or you don't even need to use the Wii. Do you need to use the Wii?" Then, later in the show, Reggie demos the Wii U and makes it a point that say it's a new console. Yikes. I guess it's a good thing Jimmy Fallon is on so late.

I'd like to think that such a thing happening right in front of Reggie gets NOA to realize that they have to evolve their messaging here.
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: Why did Nintendo make the Wii[U] a carbon copy of the Wii?
« Reply #49 on: June 16, 2012, 11:44:00 PM »
Fallon is just a moron anyways, I have legit never found him funny.
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