Author Topic: Project Café Game Concepts  (Read 16899 times)

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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #50 on: June 03, 2011, 04:06:11 PM »
Odds are when friends get together they will all own their own Cafe system, so they can just bring their controller which came bundled with their system along to the get together so that way there won't be much need to invest in additional controllers.
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Offline Bman87301

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #51 on: June 03, 2011, 05:04:14 PM »
It may be more economical than GBA to GCN connectivity, but not by enough to design multi-player games around. Most people don't even buy more than one or two extra Wii Remotes. Seriously, how many people do you know who have all four? Most don't own more than two, because at $40 one is extra is enough. I'm still quite confident that you're all kidding yourselves because you want to believe a local multi-player design could work, and not because you realistically think it will. At this point, I expect this touch screen controller is going to be primarily, if not exclusively, for single player experiences (not counting online), and for giving you an option of playing away from the TV. It'll likely be an auxiliary controller, not the main controller-- which will most likely be another pointer-based controller (which works well for both single player experiences and multi-player parlor games anyway). This touch screen controller will appeal mainly to gamers. I don't see the casual crowd flocking to it, and I don't see Nintendo willing to lose them. Nintendo will be trying to lure in both. That's where this secondary controller comes in... It certainly won't be designed around multi-player.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2011, 05:07:21 PM by Bman87301 »

Offline Stogi

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #52 on: June 03, 2011, 05:08:47 PM »
It all depends on how long this next generation will last and how well Nintendo markets their product. If people find it worth the price, they'll buy it.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #53 on: June 03, 2011, 05:40:10 PM »
I'm still quite confident that you're all kidding yourselves because you want to believe a local multi-player design could work, and not because you realistically think it will.

We all know that it could work, but the only way to give it a fair chance is to make it something the system is designed around doing and using.

Wiimote was originally a GC add-on, that is why we saw the Wii released the way it was. Wii was an extension of the GC designed around working with the controller.
Cafe will be designed around working with the controller in the same way.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #54 on: June 03, 2011, 05:59:44 PM »
I'm still quite confident that you're all kidding yourselves because you want to believe a local multi-player design could work,

We're not kidding ourselves. This is going to be the standard default controller of the system and for that reason anyone who develops games for it is going to be REQUIRED to develop their games with that controller in mind. Its not some derp de derp peripheral that just a few people are going to own and only 2 or 3 games are going to support. If the Cafe sells 50 million units then that means there are going to be (at a minimum) 50 million of these controllers out there, and if there are 700 games made for it than that's going to be 700 games that are designed to work with that controller. Let's say 350 of those games support local multiplayer, well there you go... so how exactly is that not working?
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #55 on: June 03, 2011, 06:12:02 PM »
Quote
  Odds are when friends get together they will all own their own Cafe system, so they can just bring their controller which came bundled with their system along to the get together so that way there won't be much need to invest in additional controllers.

We sort of do this with the Wii since I don't have four remotes.  It doesn't always work too well as people forget to bring them and many guys don't own one.  Plus it does not allow for spur of the moment gaming where people are over for some other reason.  The second you have anyone over that doesn't have one then you basically have a one player system.
 
If they have $80 controllers this is going to be land of single player and online games.  If you think offline multiplayer is dying now, this will kill it good.

Offline Stogi

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #56 on: June 03, 2011, 06:22:58 PM »
Yet another on queue overreaction.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #57 on: June 03, 2011, 07:28:06 PM »
Multiplayer games are also possible with a single controller as long as players take turns. There are some multiplayer games which require a controller to be passed around.
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Offline famicomplicated

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #58 on: June 04, 2011, 07:38:06 AM »
I too imagined people bringing their $80 controllers round to their friends house for multiplayer games, but what if you want to play with a friend who doesn't have one yet?


Also, remember the GBA->GameCube connection games, they were all based around the concept of "bring your GBA (and cable) round to someone's house and play together" - and that didn't work out too well.


It's a difficult balance to make, it shouldn't be so cheap and crappy that it only costs $50, but it shouldn't be so amazingly over featured that it costs over $100!
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #59 on: June 04, 2011, 09:02:44 AM »
I too imagined people bringing their $80 controllers round to their friends house for multiplayer games, but what if you want to play with a friend who doesn't have one yet?

Either you buy it, or he buys it, or you both pitch in $40 and then you both mutually own it.

That said, most people probably won't own more than two of them. One will obviously come bundled with the system, and another one might be obtained through a bundle deal with some game ala Wii Play/Wii Play Motion. I suspect there would be some "Cafe Play" collection of minigames on a disc which comes bundled with a Cafe controller, because why not? That strategy paid off for Nintendo in leaps and bounds so why wouldn't they do it again? Just like Wii Play, Cafe Play would go on to be one of if not the best selling Cafe games because people would be buying it for the bundled controller, but get a $10-$20 collection of games with that basically for free.
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Offline Bman87301

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #60 on: June 04, 2011, 01:36:08 PM »
I still say you're kidding yourselves if you think this is going to be the standard controller used for multiplayer. Wii was by far the most profitable system this generation, so they're not going to abandon the Wii remote-styled wand controls. You're looking at it from a gamer's perspective, which Nintendo already proved with the Wii's success that focusing primarily on gamers is not where the profit is. Sure, Nintendo wants to draw the gamers back as well, but there's no point in doing that if they lose the casual crowd in the process. Since non-gamers would never pay $80-100 for a controller (especially if the console itself is $300+, which it most certainly will be), you can't expect games to be designed around that model-- especially if those games are part of franchises that would appeal to that crowd (Mario Kart, Animal Crossing).

As gamers, we look down on the casual crowd and want to believe casual gaming is just a fad that Nintendo will eventually abandon, but it's not realistic. If you stop to look at it from Nintendo perspective, as I believe I have, you get a very different view. And I'm picturing a completely different strategy, and so far if this Nikkei story is to believed, I'm right on the money so far-- as my original ideas described in my entry for the check list contest matches up extremely close (and I posted my entry before the story broke). So, I'm pretty confident in my view on this.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #61 on: June 04, 2011, 01:45:11 PM »
ClubN Elite award bonus for 2012 - $25 off Café Controller
Just in time for it's release party @ E3 2012.

Actually, I've been trying to think of what a Café Play game would be like. I wasn't really able to come up with anything that would show off the controller (considering I don't know 100% what it is yet). But I imagine the collection of mini games would likely be made up of marble madness, scrambled puzzle pieces, Elite Beat Agents/Rhythm Tengoku, Face training and other games that mostly use the touch screen and motion sensing of the controller
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 01:49:00 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #62 on: June 04, 2011, 02:48:35 PM »
I still say you're kidding yourselves if you think this is going to be the standard controller used for multiplayer.

Its going to be the standard controller period. So of course its going to be the standard controller for multiplayer. I'm sure the wiimote will be compatible with the Cafe mainly for backwards compatibility purposes, but the main controller is going to be whatever comes bundled with the console.

As for non-gamers, the Cafe controller sounds like its soemthing that would be attractive to both hardcore and non-gamers alike, because its a standard controller so that's good for the hardcore crowd, but its also got a touchscreen like the DS so that's going to be a great thing for the casual market. So its going to be a controller that will appeal to everyone. So no, Nintendo is not turning their backs on non-gamers.
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Offline Bman87301

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #63 on: June 04, 2011, 07:04:32 PM »

Its going to be the standard controller period. So of course its going to be the standard controller for multiplayer. I'm sure the wiimote will be compatible with the Cafe mainly for backwards compatibility purposes, but the main controller is going to be whatever comes bundled with the console.

Who says this touch screen thing is going to be the only input device included in the box? How do you know it's not going to come bundled with a new type of remote as well as this touch screen device? You don't.

Need I remind you that the touch-screen and dual analog controls weren't the only details that initially leaked about this system. Pretty consistent reports suggesting Wii-style motion controls were out there too that would use a new tracking system? This info largely seems to have gotten glossed over by the gaming press who've instead been focusing on the touch screen idea, but it was still out there and shouldn't be ignored. Since it seems unlikely that both a 6" touch screen and a Wii-styled motion pointer (which pointer tracking pretty much guarantees) could be part of the same device, it's fairly reasonable to guess that there's more than one controller with this system.

Heck, I could easily picture two SKUs of the system-- a higher ended one meant for gamers that comes with a motion controller, the touch screen controller, and an HMDI cable. As well as a lower ended one that has the motion controller only, component cables, and bundled with a Wii Sports-type casual game. I'm fairly convinced that this touch screen "controller" will come standard with the system (at least in an SKU designed for gamers), and can be used as a controller, but that won't necessarily be its only purpose, or even its primary one.

Assuming it will be "the standard controller period" is foolhardy since we haven't gotten any real solid information to determine if this even the only controller. You ought to keep an open mind and not automatically assume you know all the answers before anything has even been revealed.

Edited--- Text wall fixed, happy now?
« Last Edit: June 06, 2011, 12:06:39 PM by Bman87301 »

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #64 on: June 04, 2011, 08:35:55 PM »
Actually there weren't any rumors about a new remote that I remember. But there was a rumor that it would have better motion sensing than Move

Dev Kits out for Months - Better Motion than Move
Quote
They have also claimed that the system retains motion control, with capabilities that are “better than Move”, meaning that they boast higher fidelity. We do not yet have word on whether or not its motion-controlled solution introduces a camera.

There have also been rumors that the system is fully BC which means it supports Wiimotes which means there is some IR somewhere included with the system (supposedly on the controller)

Now you could assume that Nintendo would have a Wiimote2.0 packed in the box, and they might, but it would also be kinda silly to assume that the big screened controller that will definitely be the center point of the console will not be the main controller... but I still hold out hope for a Wiimote/chuck 2.0 as an alternative and cheaper control method, especially for multi-player?

Why couldn't you get a Café controller with dock and a Wiimote 2.0 in the box? It sounds like a great idea to me. We all know that there has got to be a pretty hefty mark-up on Wiimotes after 200million of them have been sold, so it would probably cost Nintendo next to nothing to throw one in the box. and if the system does cost between $350 and $400, it's perfectly possibly that Nintendo would pack the controllers in the box at cost and make up the difference at retail with $40 Wiimote 2.0's and $70 Café controllers




edit: Bman87301
can we avoid the walls of text please. It's easier to read with line breaks and parapraphs and whatnot.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 08:58:08 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline Ceric

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #65 on: June 04, 2011, 10:29:56 PM »
Personally, thinking from the Nintendo perspective, they were being stifled by their own innovation.  This happens more than you would think.  You have a good Idea with loads of potential but, when it goes to actually fulfilling the potential you find out that its really not as much as you thought.  Their is a reason why the controller paradigm hasn't really shifted.  I think the DS is probably the most successful shift we had.  Hence why you would want to replicate it.

Seriously, What was the Last Nintendo game where you said "I couldn't really imagine this without the Wiimote being good."

Wrote this real fast and didn't completely read the rest of the thread so if someone else brought this up Kuddos.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #66 on: June 04, 2011, 10:49:05 PM »
Outside of the two Wii Sports titles, and the upcoming Zelda: Skyward Sword, I can't think of another game from Nintendo that made good use of motion control.
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Offline JasonMaivia

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #67 on: June 04, 2011, 11:30:48 PM »
In my opinion, the best thing to come from the Wii Remote is the pointer.  The motion is great for some sports games, like baseball and Wiisports bowling, and a few puzzle games, like Boom Blox, but no one's actually done very much with the Wiimote's motion except having the user waggle waggle shake shake.

Tilting works fine with games like Kororinpa, but most other games that uses it, like for Driving games, fail.
I hope to God that the main controller that comes with Cafe is a traditional-styled controller and not a super gimmicky one that'll ,once again, alienate the console and its gamers from the world of popular multiplatform gaming.

Offline Bman87301

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #68 on: June 06, 2011, 01:53:43 PM »
Now you could assume that Nintendo would have a Wiimote2.0 packed in the box, and they might, but it would also be kinda silly to assume that the big screened controller that will definitely be the center point of the console will not be the main controller... but I still hold out hope for a Wiimote/chuck 2.0 as an alternative and cheaper control method, especially for multi-player?

Why couldn't you get a Café controller with dock and a Wiimote 2.0 in the box? It sounds like a great idea to me. We all know that there has got to be a pretty hefty mark-up on Wiimotes after 200million of them have been sold, so it would probably cost Nintendo next to nothing to throw one in the box. and if the system does cost between $350 and $400, it's perfectly possibly that Nintendo would pack the controllers in the box at cost and make up the difference at retail with $40 Wiimote 2.0's and $70 Café controllers

If both controllers come standard with the system, then how can only one of them be considered the 'Café controller'? This is exactly the kind of thinking I'm talking about-- You're thinking inside the box. Who says 'there can only be one real controller'? The DS uses SNES-style buttons and a touch screen, does that make the buttons any less of a DS aspect? No, SNES-styled buttons worked in the past so they reused them alongside a new touch screen, both of which make up a DS. As gamers, we're used to being in a bubble cut off from the general public, but Nintendo popped that bubble with the Wii. As a result, we need to start learning to look at gaming reports without our 'geek goggles' still on.

Looking at Wii-styled controls through our 'geek goggles', they may appear to be something obsolete that Nintendo needs to replace since Wii failed to become the console of choice for gamers. The problem with that thinking is that gamers are just a niche portion of the market as a whole. Wii was the choice console to the mass market-- therefore motion controls were a success, not a failure. So, which is the most logical move on Nintendo's part? Replace the motion controls or add something new in addition to them?

Even though Wii might not have been the most played console among gamers, most gamers still owned one. Gamers and non-gamers alike both bought Wiis. The way I see it, it wasn't that gamers weren't willing to embrace the motion controls, it's just that 3rd party developers weren't because it took too much extra work to accommodate the special controls. As a result, all the good non-Nintendo-published gamer-centric games went to the consoles that used traditional controls, and the gamers simply followed the games. So my thinking is that Nintendo's solution to the problem will be to also include something in the box that can act as more traditional controller so developers have no more excuses. Especially if it also serves another more primary purpose...

What kind of games were most successful on the Wii? I think most would agree local multiplayer party games. Which makes sense when you consider that gathering multiple people for short play sessions is far more practical use for a big TV than a single person sitting in front of it to play an epic adventure for 20+ hours. As far as practicality goes, a long-single player game is best suited for a portable system... but most gamers prefer playing those games with the latest graphics technology which is only available in console form. But... if you had technology that could let you stream content to another device which could coincidentally function as its own controller as well, you'd be hitting two birds with one stone.

That's what I believe is the main purpose of the touchscreen controller really is. Since local multiplayer works best with Wii-type games on a single screen, why change it, let alone make each player pay $100 for a controller in order to join in? The touchscreen controller will have its own purposes, most of which will be for single player-- it makes the most sense.

You say it's kinda silly to assume what will definitely be the center point of the console won't be the main controller... That's assuming its intended purpose was to be a controller. I don't believe that to be the case. If its main intended function was for streaming and we just misinterpreted the leaked reports, then it's not silly at all. In fact, the idea that we'd be expected to have to likely pay $100 for each controller, is a lot sillier.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2011, 07:11:21 PM by Bman87301 »

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #69 on: June 06, 2011, 03:09:26 PM »
So my thinking is that Nintendo's solution to the problem will be to also include something in the box that can act as more traditional controller, so developers have no more excuses.

That would be the Café controller. you know the one with the traditional button layout and dual analogs + that screen in the middle.
an upgraded Wiimote 2.0 (which will hopefully be packed in if the Café controller doesn't already solve the problem of needing one) would be just that... an upgraded Wiimote.

But of course I have drawn out designs for the Wiimote/chuck 2.0 and a Café controller that can use it as an insert. But I honestly have no idea what Nintendo has planned and if that is the direction they would take. Luckily for us all shall be revealed in less than 21 hours and we can finally stop speculating about what they are doing and can move on to how they are gonna utilize it.

Offline Bman87301

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #70 on: June 06, 2011, 03:49:12 PM »


That would be the Café controller. you know the one with the traditional button layout and dual analogs + that screen in the middle.
an upgraded Wiimote 2.0 (which will hopefully be packed in if the Café controller doesn't already solve the problem of needing one) would be just that... an upgraded Wiimote.

Again, you miss my point... They would  both be Café controllers. Calling only one the 'Café controller' and not the other would be a misnomer, especially considering motion/pointer controls would work well with both multiplayer and single player, while the other would only best for single-player, and streaming--meaning the motion controls would most likely be best described as the 'main' controller anyway. The point of the screen device will most likely be more so for streaming than for being what most would think of as 'the controller'.


P.S. You might want to read my previous post again... I accidentally posted part of it early by mistake, and you responded before I finished it.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2011, 06:59:17 PM by Bman87301 »

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #71 on: June 06, 2011, 06:23:13 PM »
I think you're nuts if you believe the controller everyone's talking about as the central concept for the console WILL NOT be the main controller, and that the main controller will be something that we haven't heard anything about and may not even exist.
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Offline Bman87301

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #72 on: June 06, 2011, 06:54:55 PM »
I think you're nuts if you believe the controller everyone's talking about as the central concept for the console WILL NOT be the main controller, and that the main controller will be something that we haven't heard anything about and may not even exist.

Who said we heard nothing about it? We've heard plenty of information that could be describing a motion-sensing controller... you just misinterpreted it as being part the touch screen device. Since all we've had to go on up to this point have been rumors and incomplete bits of information, that could easily be the case.

In fact, I think you're nuts to expect a standard controller that would have to have a $100 price tag-- especially if the aspect making it so costly in the first place is a SCREEN  that connects to a HOME CONSOLE, that will already be connected to a TELEVISION. Yeah, I'm the one who's nuts...
« Last Edit: June 06, 2011, 06:57:13 PM by Bman87301 »

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #73 on: June 06, 2011, 07:03:29 PM »
Nintendo isn't going to develop a brand new controller from scratch and then bundle it with the system just to slam it on the ground and spit on it and then continue to use the Wiimote instead.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Project Café Game Concepts
« Reply #74 on: June 06, 2011, 07:06:17 PM »
So you've correctly interpreted it as a separate controller?

Well, I'm glad we have that all cleared up. We've all had it wrong. The rumors have been talking about 2 (TWO) separate controllers this whole time... I guess we should ignore what the orignal source had said about what the tablet controller sorta resembled.

Really we have no idea what is right or what is wrong, but it is kinda crazy to think that the big new feature of the next console, which is rumored to be a controller with a screen in the middle won't be the main controller for the new system.
Instead it will be some system accessory that you set on the side and reference from time to time instead of looking at the television. That makes perfect sense.

But we will all find out tomorrow morning, so there really is no need to argue over who interpreted it correctly and who has it all wrong.