Topic: RFN RetroActive #16 Discussion - Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lo(u)rdly Caliber(re)

[noname2200]

They're very effective in one to one combat, even when they're not being used to get behind the enemy. When retaking Leia's home her unit circumvented two legions and struck the commander directly.

Most impressive that they finished that boss off so effectively.  I sent Leia's unit in to do the job, but after getting a pair of combo spells only Leia was left to limp away in complete humiliation. 

Anyway, I finished the game for the umpteenth time.  The final fight is pretty emblematic of the game as a whole: when I didn't know what I was doing (the first time around), I got walloped, and barely managed to win.  Now that fight is kind of a joke.  Being prepared really, really helps in this game (not surprising, since the player's input is almost exclusively in the preparation).  This makes it doubly unfortunate that the game only occasionally takes the time to educate and prepare the player...

As a random aside, I finally ran into an enemy unit led by someone named Badguy.  I took hunted him down with a unit led by a Black Knight named Ma'ddog.  As an added bonus, Badguy's unit had a knight named Dude.  I love the random name generator in this game.  Although nothing will ever top the original's, which gave me an almighty and widely-feared Lich.  His name was "Pizza." 

[Crimm]

I killed a couple of "Dudes" today. Badguy is classic. I'm sure there's a list of names somewhere.

Then again, one of the units I started the game with was named Aqua. I feel like if she didn't have a completely stupid name I'd have used her more and she'd be a strong unit.

The horrible unit I've created of recruited characters I don't have a slot for is now unstoppable.

Aisha (A), Saradin (S), Vad (V), Merida (M), Debonair (D)

Front
_ V D
_ _ _
A S M

In that formation Vad and Debonair both get three attacks and Aisha gets two heal plus.

That alone would make this unit fairly powerful, however Merida has The Book of Meteor Strike equipped and Saradin has The Book of the Tempest.

At no point in the last three missions has ANY unit had even a single unit survive an encounter with them.

For those that don't know, Tempest and Meteor Strike are spells that each to between 50 to 110 damage...to all enemies in the formation. Because of their position on the field, they both get to cast their spell twice. With Vad and Debonair doing about 60 - 90 per hit, and each going three times, this unit kills EVERYTHING many times before the second round starts.

Troi's unit has The Book of Destruction. Not sure how they ended up with it, but they've had it since you could first buy it around mission 13. It basically took every cent I had. It's paid it back 10 fold.

[Crimm]

Final Stats:

Chaos Frame: 74 points
Total: 985 days

Ending: King Magnus

That's got to be the quickest (in terms of days) that I've beaten the game. I only had three birthdays!

Time (it doesn't tell you final time, so this is my time BEFORE the final battle): 40:32:41. I'd say the last battle took slightly over an hour.

So a good estimate is probably 41:45. I'm happy with that.

[noname2200]

I killed a couple of "Dudes" today. Badguy is classic. I'm sure there's a list of names somewhere.

Then again, one of the units I started the game with was named Aqua. I feel like if she didn't have a completely stupid name I'd have used her more and she'd be a strong unit.

I'd suggest just changing her name, since she's generic, but it'd be hypocritical of me since I never bothered either.  Save for one time, when I was younger, and thus named all my generic units after sex positions.  That was when I first discovered the, erm, large variety of information that the internet can put at the disposal of any teenager with a keyboard and 56k modem...

Although speaking of special characters you don't know what to do with: what use is Gilbert?  He's a Beast Master, and thus already worthless, but he doesn't seem to be much better than any other Beast Master...

[Crimm]

He's not useful at all. I think beasts might get a stat boost in a party with a beastmaster. I can't confirm that to be true, however.


I've got him doing meat sheild duty next to Destin and a knight (yes, a knight at the end of the game who despite leveling never made it to paladin). Of course, they're not protecting anything, because behind them is the fully evolved form of the wind dragon. I had it with the flying unit, only to find that despite his GIANT WINGS and his WIND ALIGNMENT he can't fly.


Once I had an angel knight and the Raven he was kicked out of the band, but it seemed a waste to leave him in the inactive roster. It's not like he was something useless like a fairy.


>Throw a Kiss x2


...great

[Kytim89]

He's not useful at all. I think beasts might get a stat boost in a party with a beastmaster. I can't confirm that to be true, however.


I've got him doing meat sheild duty next to Destin and a knight (yes, a knight at the end of the game who despite leveling never made it to paladin). Of course, they're not protecting anything, because behind them is the fully evolved form of the wind dragon. I had it with the flying unit, only to find that despite his GIANT WINGS and his WIND ALIGNMENT he can't fly.


Once I had an angel knight and the Raven he was kicked out of the band, but it seemed a waste to leave him in the inactive roster. It's not like he was something useless like a fairy.


>Throw a Kiss x2


...great

Are you getting the new Tactics Ogre for the PSP?

[Crimm]

Don't have one. That said, I do really prefer the Ogre Battle style to the Tactics Ogre style.

[Kytim89]

Don't have one. That said, I do really prefer the Ogre Battle style to the Tactics Ogre style.

I am the opposite and prefer the Tactics Ogre style over the other.

[broodwars]

Don't have one. That said, I do really prefer the Ogre Battle style to the Tactics Ogre style.

I am the opposite and prefer the Tactics Ogre style over the other.

Hooray for you?   

Isometric, grid-based strategy games bore me.  It's just a continual dance of "send this unit behind this enemy unit and backstab until dead" or "send this unit and spam magic on this group of enemy units until dead."   Every battle involves moving the same characters to largely the same positions to execute the same moves.  I'll take macro-level military strategy where I'm directing legions of troops (or micro-level ones like Valkyria Chronicles that discard the grid for 3rd person movement and combat), thanks.

[Kytim89]

Don't have one. That said, I do really prefer the Ogre Battle style to the Tactics Ogre style.

I am the opposite and prefer the Tactics Ogre style over the other.

Hooray for you?   

Isometric, grid-based strategy games bore me.  It's just a continual dance of "send this unit behind this enemy unit and backstab until dead" or "send this unit and spam magic on this group of enemy units until dead."  I'll take macro-level military strategy where I'm directly legions of troops (or micro-level ones like Valkyria Chronicles that discard the grid for 3rd person movement and combat), thanks.

I prefer a small band of fighters out numbered by the enemy and you, the player, must rely on skill and strategy to defeat your opponents. I also love all of the different classes.

[Crimm]

Neither series is want for number of classes or opportunities to be outnumbered. I'd say that the OB series places more emphasis on the longterm decision making:

Units are slow
Fields are large
Game is realtime

then it does on shorter term tactics.

[noname2200]

I'm a fan of both styles of SRPG, but I'd be more excited about an upcoming game that's like Ogre Battle than Tactics Ogre, simply because the latter has been farmed far more than the former.  Can anyone name a game that's similar to Ogre Battle?

[broodwars]

I'm a fan of both styles of SRPG, but I'd be more excited about an upcoming game that's like Ogre Battle than Tactics Ogre, simply because the latter has been farmed far more than the former.  Can anyone name a game that's similar to Ogre Battle?

The Last Remnant on the Xbox 360/PC (and I hear the PC version is dramatically superior due to the lack of massive framerate issues that the 360 version has).

[broodwars]

Just to give my own thoughts on the game since I'm not going to have the time to play any more than the little bit I already have before the RFN crew is done with the game:
 
Ogre Battle 64 is one of my favorite games of All Time.  It's not a perfect game by a long stretch: much of the game can be beaten by just aiming for the leader, a great number of features about the game are either never explained or quickly glossed over (such as why you would ever want to use a Legion), the game's pace can be maddeningly-slow, and on occasion the lack of direct input can frustrate me.  However, it managed to do something years ago I never would have thought was possible: it took the formula of the original frustratingly-obtuse SNES Ogre Battle and made it fun.  It's stuffed with secrets and gameplay systems that rival many modern games (let alone N64 ones), the 2D visuals are gorgeous (especially on the Wii's component video), the N64's limited 3D capabilities are used well, the soundtrack is excellent (though some songs are overused), and the story is deceptively simple yet contains a surprising amount of complexity.
 
Sadly, gamers have shown they'd rather experience the dull, copy-and-paste Tactics Ogre/Final Fantasy Tactics formula, while I much prefer the preparation-based strategy of the original Ogre Battle and Ogre Battle 64.  For all their flaws, at least those two games are unique, which is more than I can say for most strategy and RPG games nowadays.  The games are acquired tastes, but I highly recommend Ogre Battle 64 and for $10 on Wii I really don't see how you can go wrong picking the game up (I paid $60 for the original cartridge at launch).  The game certainly holds up better than most of the games on the Virtual Console.

[Crimm]

I'm a fan of both styles of SRPG, but I'd be more excited about an upcoming game that's like Ogre Battle than Tactics Ogre, simply because the latter has been farmed far more than the former.  Can anyone name a game that's similar to Ogre Battle?

The Last Remnant on the Xbox 360/PC (and I hear the PC version is dramatically superior due to the lack of massive framerate issues that the 360 version has).

And the screen tearing. It's so bad about that. I enjoyed it, but man that game has BUGS.


It does have the squads, and the limited control. It doesn't have the big over-land tactical stuff, but some of the battles are quite larger and the game IS absurdly obtuse. It has its own Wiki page, and it is totally necessary to extract all the gameplay from that game.


broodwars, as I've said on the show, there is no N64 game I love more than OB64. If I've beaten it as many times as I remember (four now?) that's over 160 hours. No N64 game comes close. Even after 160 hours I still learned some stuff right up to the last engagement of the last battle of this play-through.


I got really good at knowing when to end engagements early, something I had never done in the past because I was too concerned with ending the engagement as the winner.

[Razorkid]

Just got through listening to the podcast on my way driving down to DC from New England. I love this game sooooo much!

I remember preordering it back in the day when I was in highschool at Babbages.

I've beaten the game 3 times, though it has been over 10 years since my last playthrough. This is one of my top all time favorite games and a real gem on the N64. Back when I was in highschool and had all the time in the world, to have this game as part my N64 library was huge. You gotta remember that there were just about zero rpgs for the N64 at the time and it was my only current gen system. So when I heard it was coming out and saw the 2D sprite art that was so bereft on the N64 and prevelent on the psone (of which I didn't own) I pounced on it immediately.

I remember jumping in blindly on my first playthrough (though only after thoroughly reading the manual and playing the tutorial) and not really taking advantage of all the strategic placements and promotion systems till about halfway through chap 1. After that, it was a blast to play.

Favorite things for me:
-The planning screen- Oh how I would spend hours pouring over stats, quibling over unit placement and grouping, outfiting with new equipment, and deciding who's next in line for a level up. Plus that music during the planning screen is soooo serene. Easily half my playtime was devoted to planning.

-The battles - It's interesting hearing different preferences on strategy games. I really enjoyed OGB64's take on realtime/turnbased and got a real sense of accomplishment when my troops performed admirably all thanks to my planning. Plus, how satisfying is it when your troops get a critical hit and the camera zooms in for extra emphasis!

-Replayability- I've beaten the game 3 times and have gotten a different ending everytime. I've still yet to create some of the different classes (angels, princess, seraphims, some dragon evolutions, etc.) nor have I played completely chaotic before which would be fun.

As it was stated in the retrospective, I would pay a handsome sum to have this exact game portable. As a working adult and family man, I don't have as much time to sit in front of the tv like I use to to devote the time I need to enjoy this game. Nowadays, I play the majority of my srpgs on my DS and that has become my mode of choice with this genre.

Here's hoping that they release a re-make or this exact game for 3DS AND a sequel as well with the same battle system.

[gojira]

I'm getting towards the end.  I feel like I'm going to get a 'bad' end because no one has joined my party lately and a lot of characters seem to be dying. 

Despite that I got this super bad ass bow that petrifies seemingly 100% of the time.  Freaken domination with that unit.

[noname2200]

Thanks to James, Jonny, Nathan, and Greg for their other recommended titles.  I've repeatedly played the SNES game (it's great, but not as good as 64), and I've tried and enjoyed the Total War series (up to Medieval II, which turned me off) and Romance of the Three Kingdoms (it gets too complicated for me after IV).  But Company of Heroes sounds like it should be up my alley, even if it's not quite the same:  I'd heard great things about it, but somehow never got around to picking it up.  I'll correct that mistake.

I'm getting towards the end.  I feel like I'm going to get a 'bad' end because no one has joined my party lately and a lot of characters seem to be dying.

That's not necessarily indicative of anything.  Special Characters stop pouring in early in Chapter 4, with the last one being available only if you're Chaotic and don't have any Zenobian.  And the plot definitely turns into a bloodbath no matter what, although it's even worse if you missed some characters, or make a few decisions differently.

I remember jumping in blindly on my first playthrough (though only after thoroughly reading the manual and playing the tutorial) and not really taking advantage of all the strategic placements and promotion systems till about halfway through chap 1. After that, it was a blast to play.

Favorite things for me:
-The planning screen- Oh how I would spend hours pouring over stats, quibling over unit placement and grouping, outfiting with new equipment, and deciding who's next in line for a level up. Plus that music during the planning screen is soooo serene. Easily half my playtime was devoted to planning.

-The battles - It's interesting hearing different preferences on strategy games. I really enjoyed OGB64's take on realtime/turnbased and got a real sense of accomplishment when my troops performed admirably all thanks to my planning. Plus, how satisfying is it when your troops get a critical hit and the camera zooms in for extra emphasis!

It's fun to compare experiences with other people about this game, since, not surprisingly, people who've played the game are pretty rare.  It's kind of heartening to know that everyone was as lost and confused as I was when I first played it.   Nowadays, the prevalence of Gamefaqs means that will never happen again, so I know I'll never get to completely repeat that feeling.  That's mostly for the better, of course, but there was something to peicing together the game's mechanics through observation, trial, and error.  Jonny kind of exemplified this when he talked about discovering how strongholds recover your HP as well as your stamina: the feeling I got from peeling away the game's layers one by one was strangely gratifying, especially since I wouldn't have this patience with most other games.  I guess I just always got the impression that there was a ton of stuff waiting beneath the surface, which encouraged me to push through the frustration.

Well that, and I was a broke teenager, so I had to milk all my games for as much as I could...

As for the battles, the criticals are satisfying, but my favorite part is the various death screams.  As simple as they are, they're strangely satisfying.

[gojira]

I finished the game.

Chaos Frame: 1 pt (and obviously the worst ending).
662 days (one birthday, should've been two but they skipped over my first one).
75+ hours (half of that was probably spent in the organization screen).

The game wasn't that difficult overall.  I'd say my experience with many other strategy games and the time spent in the organization screen played a big role in that. 

But wow those hours.  I listened to many many podcasts and an audible book or two.  I even spent some time fixing up a n64 controller I kinda broke in a fit of rage. 

Having shunned this game for so long it's funny it's now a game I really enjoy.  It's not my favorite strategy game, but it feels like the most replayable.  So I can see why it has been played multiple times by people.

[Crimm]

1 POINT!? Who are you, Benito Mussolini?

[gojira]

Apparently.  They kept telling me all I cared about was winning battles. 

[Crimm]

I think 60 is bad end.

You missed good end by like 59 points.

[noname2200]

I think 60 is bad end.

Nah, there's a Pretty Good end between 30 and 60.  Things end pretty happily for all involved, and the sequel gets set up as much as in either of the other endings.  So he's only 29 away from not completely screwing over the country.

[Crimm]

You can't get a 0 right? For all we know he may have been much worse.

[gojira]

I think 60 is bad end.

Nah, there's a Pretty Good end between 30 and 60.  Things end pretty happily for all involved, and the sequel gets set up as much as in either of the other endings.  So he's only 29 away from not completely screwing over the country.

But I did get to see the baby crawling out from under the dead woman.  Or is that in all the endings?