Topic: New Glasses-Free 3D Tech From Microsoft

[MaryJane]

The new tech uses cameras built into a TV to track viewers and beam images directly into each eye allowing for stereoscopic 3D:


Article: http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/25524/?a=f


Proof of concept video: http://www.technologyreview.com/video/?vid=579

The new lens, which is thinner at the bottom than at the top, steers light to a viewer's eyes by switching light-emitting diodes along its bottom edge on and off. Combined with a backlight, this makes it possible to show different images to different viewers, or to create a stereoscopic (3-D) effect by presenting different images to a person's left and right eye.  "What's so special about this lens is that it allows us to control where the light goes," says Steven Bathiche, director of Microsoft's Applied Sciences Group.


Microsoft's prototype display can deliver 3-D video to two viewers at the same time (one video for each individual eye), regardless of where they are positioned. It can also shows ordinary 2-D video to up to four people simultaneously (one video for each person). The 3-D display uses a camera to track viewers so that it knows where to steer light toward them. The lens is also thin, which means it could be incorporated into a standard liquid crystal display, says Bathiche.


Bathiche says the 3-D lens can replace the traditional backlight in a liquid crystal display (LCD) to create a glasses-free 3-D display. Light from the lens will shine through the liquid crystals, projecting images at the viewers. The quality of the resulting picture is limited by the screen's refresh rate. A normal 240 Hertz LCD can accommodate two 3-D views, meaning that each viewer's eye receives a video that refreshes at a rate of 60 Hertz. Any slower, and the frames the video would be jerky. Alternatively, four viewers could watch their own 2-D video using the same display at a refresh rate of 60 Hertz


The technology is to some degree "at the mercy of what the LCD panel in front of the backlight can do," says Michael Bove, director of the consumer electronics laboratory at MIT. To address this, Bathiche says Microsoft is pushing display manufacturers to make faster LCDs. Bathiche's group is also exploring other ways to use the 3-D lens. If integrated into a backlight of a laptop, he says, it could provide a way to instantly toggle between a private view, in which the backlight steers the images from the screen toward a single person's eyes, and a shared view, in which the backlight shines the images out in all directions.

This sounds very cool. It almost sounds like the Kinect 2, but it is to be built within TV's and not attached to gaming console, but can easily be used for gaming.


The first thing I thought about is no longer needing split screen for multiplayer games. It would also allow battle RPG's and strategy games to be played multiplayer locally without your opponent seeing and preparing for what you're doing. MS could even design the Next360 to play two games at once... your mom plays her casual game while you play Halo X all on the same TV. With a cheap pair of noise canceling bluetooth headphones she won't even hear you cursing at your squadron.


This is also the type of thing ad companies would love to have; they could broadcast one commercial to women and another to men, even on outdoor displays, all in 3D, all on one screen. There are a lot of options for this technology and it seems like MS is pushing hard for it's introduction, and is intent on making it better, hopefully this tech doesn't end up like the Courier or Surface computers. 

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

MS has no place in the living room.

[Spak-Spang]

This tech seems dumb and flawed. 

The biggest question I have is movement while playing.  If I change direction or shift will I lose my image of the game?  Would the computer be able to adjust quick enough?

[SixthAngel]

It sounds really cool but it also sounds about 10 years off.
The elimination of splitscreen and the "cheating" that players do by looking at the other screen is awesome.
MS has a way of introducting things that seem awesome only to quietly hide them away afterwards because one reason or another.

[BlackNMild2k1]

The other main flaw with this is that you need a new display with this tech built in. 5-6 years when this maybe makes it to market, people would have been buying 3D tv's that support however may people could afford a pair of glasses, then MS drops this tech (which sounds cool when used right) that only supports 2 people for 3D and 4 People for 2D images.

What about everyone else in the room? what does everyone else see?

[MaryJane]

This tech seems dumb and flawed.  

The biggest question I have is movement while playing.  If I change direction or shift will I lose my image of the game?  Would the computer be able to adjust quick enough?

I included a link to the video, it show just how quickly it changes and this is still early in the life of the thing. Also in the quotes I included it says the cameras "track the viewers  so that it knows where to steer light toward them" so no, if you move you won't lose the image. Would the computer be able to adjust quick enough?? This is 2010!! How long has headtracking been around? Facial recognition? Does the Wii computer respond fast enough to the movement of the Wiimote??

Market analysts don't expect 3D TV's to sell well until 2013 so MS has some time to research and get this out. Again, if you read the article (impartially and not under the guise of "I hope everything Microsoft does fails") they mention how this technology has been around for awhile but MS is the first to do it in a way that is cost and size efficient. So LCD manufacturers already know about the tech, and it's pretty obvious how desperate they are to come out with glasses-free 3D televisions. Why wouldn't Visio or some other lazy company simply license MS's tech? MS isn't going to build TV's just give out the technology.

Everyone else would see a either a normal 2D display or a 3D display that requires glasses beyond the TV's split 3D or 2D imaging. It's still a TV screen, it's the camera's that are broadcasting the display of something not on the screen. The quote about the laptop (that I included in original post) mentions this. You can make it so that only 1, or how ever many people can see, or that everyone can, it doesn't say both are possible, but they should be. As you it would only require one more stationary simple camera. 

And if MS has no place in the living room there are 25 million Xbox360 that need to be returned.

I wonder how different the reaction would be if this thread was labeled: 3DS Glasses-Free Tech Revealed I imagine there would have been a lot of pontification directed at Nintendo.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I admit that I didn't follow the link since i am currently trying to follow along with the MS conference.
I'll look more into it later.

But the problem is still that you have to buy a whole new TV to enjoy it.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

RROD made your dreams of returned boxes a reality.

[BlackNMild2k1]

People kept returning them, problem is that MS kept sending them back.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Ok, I just read the story on this and it looiks like a screen that only supports up to 2 viewers if you are going for a 3D image and 4 viewers for a 2D image.

Where this tech is cool but would require extra equipment, is if you could pair this with a set of wireless headphones for everyone (I know trading glasses for headphones) and use a 4 tuner DVR box and have 4 people in the same room sitting on the same couch watching 4 different things at the same time on the same TV.

Split screen multi player would also be a thing of the past and 2 player 3D vs/co-op could be pretty crazy.
No more seeing the play your buddy is pickin gin Football, or what password someone is typing in for their personal profile.

But Ubi Conference is starting so I'll have to finish this thought later.

[ThePerm]

can't someone program a shader that outlines objects based on their center point? that would be a fucking hell of a lot cheaper then drawing the objects twice

[BlackNMild2k1]

I don't understand what you are saying.

[Spak-Spang]

Just followed the Link, and yes it is still in testing phase so I know it will be better.  But I saw exactly what I thought would happen in the video.  Person 2 moved and got flashes of the other screen...so not perfect and potentially can have that problem...you see the problem is even with head tracking, the light has to be beamed to your view...which means as you move the light has to play catch up, and yes, light can move fast, but you can just as easily get in the view of someone else light and vision easily.  Specially if it is beaming 4 different images, close together.

I am not against Microsoft, I actually have said they have done the best this generation of making compelling hardware and software, and deserve to be in the gaming market much more than Sony.  However, I still see flaws in this technology...that could be ironed out, but may not be.

[MaryJane]

can't someone program a shader that outlines objects based on their center point? that would be a fucking hell of a lot cheaper then drawing the objects twice

I think I understand what you're saying, but wouldn't that be more akin to depth-3D rather than stereoscopic?

I overreacted... shitty day.

This tech seems really promising to me, yes there are a few issues to work out, but is there any other large-scale effort to bring glasses-free 3D into the home? As more mobile devices become more ubiquitous, wireless headphones will also be more in demand hopefully driving prices lower, or at least keeping them steady, which is still much cheaper than 3D glasses. 

[KDR_11k]

MS has a way of introducting things that seem awesome only to quietly hide them away afterwards because one reason or another.

I believe Malstrom explained that as an attempt to steal other people's hypes, MS announces unfeasible technology that is supposedly way better than what already exists and promises it "soon", then reality kicks in and they have to strip it down massively and often don't bother releasing it at all.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Ok, I just read the story on this and it looiks like a screen that only supports up to 2 viewers if you are going for a 3D image and 4 viewers for a 2D image.

Where this tech is cool but would require extra equipment, is if you could pair this with a set of wireless headphones for everyone (I know trading glasses for headphones) and use a 4 tuner DVR box and have 4 people in the same room sitting on the same couch watching 4 different things at the same time on the same TV.

Split screen multi player would also be a thing of the past and 2 player 3D vs/co-op could be pretty crazy.
No more seeing the play your buddy is pickin gin Football, or what password someone is typing in for their personal profile.

Looks like Sony just filed a patent on this very same idea only using glasses (with earphones )
http://www.brokemycontroller.com/news/881-sony-files-two-patents-related-to-stereoscopic-screen-sharing

]Two recently published patents reveal that Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (The PlaySation division of Sony)  is considering using stereoscopic screen sharing.

With Sony’s new 3DTVs viewing images in stereoscopic 3D is the most obvious trick, but this patent, if implemented, would make it possible for two players to share separate images on the same screen.

A real world example may be playing Twisted Metal or Killzone 3 with a friend. Rather than playing in split screen, you could choose to use the stereoscopic setting so that each of you only sees your own character’s point of view on the screen. Your friend will no longer be able to cheat and see where you are, or check out your plays on Madden. Also interesting is that the patent drawings show glasses with earbuds, like those old Oakleys. Imagine being able to get your own audio signal while you play.

2 player fullscreen with the glasses shuttering only one eye view for player 1 and the other eye view for player 2.
also it looks like they may even get their own audio feed to go with that separate view.
It wold be like Online gaming against each other while sitting on the same couch or the exact idea I had posted before.

MS screen would obviously be better (2 player split 3D & 4 player split 2D -vs- 1 screen 3D & 2 player split 2D), but Sony's tech should work with existing 3DHDTV's.