Topic: PlayStation Vita (PS Vita) - previously known as NGP

[BlackNMild2k1]

Wait, what if this thing is a full android platform? It could have all the capabilities and software of an android phone.

but why stop there. I'm sure the PlayStation Suite will eventually make it's way onto the iPhone 5 and then it will not only have access to android apps and games, but iPhone apps and games and vice versa. At the right price, this could be HUGE for Sony assuming this thing doesn't get hacked to death in the first month or 2.

Sony said they might be taking a loss on the PSP2 NGP at first but they hope to be profitable.
So now I'm guessing that this thing will cost $399 retail while Sony eats $100 per unit at launch.

I think Ian meant you can't take a PS3 game (i.e. Blu-ray Disc) and play it on the NGP. Sony sorta had this feature on the PSP where if you had both the PS2 and PSP versions of a game, you could transfer save files and continue it on the go.

That is exactly what I mean.  If I want a console-on-the-go what I really want is a common platform where the same games work on both.  I don't mean different versions I mean the same physical copy of the game works on both. 
It's like how the Sega Nomad is literally a portable Genesis.  Without that I think a handheld needs to diversify itself from consoles or else it's just a watered-down experience.

That still doesn't change what you said.

If no one wanted a portable PS2 that doesn't play PS2 games why would they want a portable PS3 that doesn't play PS3 games?
&
Another thing about Sony's approach that I don't like is that I'm really not interested in playing the same games I have on my console on my portable.

You want them to make PS3 games work on the portable but you are not interested in the console game being playable on the portable. Make up your mind.

They are aiming to let you take your game off the TV and put it in your pocket to go(like you said they should), but actually doing that doesn't interest you. You're gonna make yourself dizzy if you keep thinking in circles  like that.

[Ian Sane]

  Am I the only one that would love to play Uncharted on a plane?

The only thing I do on a plane is listen to music or stare at the back of the seat in front of me.  I will admit this is irregular.
 

That still doesn't change what you said. You want them to make PS3 games work on the portable but you are not interested in the console game being playable on the portable. Make up your mind.

You misinterpretted what I said so I am not contradicting myself.  What Sony offers with this and the PSP is something that is more or less the same as a console but it is not the actually the same system.  They release games on both the handheld and the console and let you share a save between the two but they are not the same.  I have to buy two copies of the game to get it to work.  What anyone with any intelligence wants when they want a portable console is to have the EXACT SAME STUFF.  You play the game on the PS3, you take the disc out, put it in the PSP2 and you continue playing on the bus.  One copy of the game, one game purchase, two systems to allow people to play games in whatever method they prefer (or one system that works as both).  It has to be the same exact thing or it's just watered down and that's why this model has never really worked.
 
What has worked has been Nintendo's method where they provide some identity to the handheld where it has its own unique games that provide an experience the console does not offer.  So the system works well as its own system and even people that have no need for a portable videogame system would still buy it.
 
It should either be LITERALLY a portable PS3 or something quite different from the PS3 with its own unique games.  Something in between just doesn't fly.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Well, that would depend on what game you are buying. If you buy the game off the PSN store, there is a good chance that that is the only copy you need to play on your PS3 or NGP and you can pick up where you left off. There is no saying that Sony doesn't have a single game purchase in mind that has a NGP version you can send to the NGP (W(ho)TF wants to put a BRD in their NGP when UMD was already a failed and LOL'd at idea?)

I didn't misinterpret what you are saying, you just didn't read what has already been said.

Right now Sony is promoting the Playstation Suite with is a format that allows you to play the same games over your Android based device and NGP. The NGP is aimed at taking your entire PlayStation Experience and putting it in your "pocket" to go. They said during the conference that their goal was to let you take your PS3 game on the go and continue where you left off. They showed PS3 versions of games running directly off the NGP(and they looked exactly like the PS3 version AFAIC.). What more do I have to do? sit down and watch the video with you? I've already watched it for you and posted most of the important stuff so you didn't have to sit through it.

But here is the conference for you, and in much higher detail than I originally watched it.
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKsWSzAe5R4
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GLG71IouR8
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4AXgpTreEs

Here is the games trailer for everyone else: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKsWSzAe5R4#t4m33s


p.s. Nobody LITERALLY wants a portable PS3 that would play disc versions on the go. That is retarded. Nomad was a failure and so was UMD, why would we want full sized disc to carry around protruding from a portable system like a buzz saw in your pocket. Let's use some common sense please. and Battery life would be about 45minutes on something like that. Please lose the "unrealistic expectations just so that you have something to constantly bitch about" mantra. You can't be pleased. We get it, obviously no one cares. get over it.


edit: I will admit that some times you have great points, most other times though you seem to bitch just to bitch. Everything doesn't have to be so black and white, either or.

NGP actually acknowledges and fixes a lot of complaints about the PSP (UMD, Screen size/resolution, D/L games, input), yet seemingly ignores and expands on others(size battery life). It seems like a tech enthusiast wet dream come true. But even though we don't have all the details, here you are complaining about **** they haven't exactly revealed any details on yet.

[broodwars]

Hmm...I wonder what this could mean for possibly seeing a legal PSP emulator on the PS3 to go with the NGP.  It would be unlikely, but that's been my big problem with the PSP: I don't want to own one to play its games, and its games don't sell outside of Japan.  Now, if I could buy a (digital version of a) PSP/NGP game and play it on my PS3, I'd be onboard with that.

[nickmitch]

@BNM I don't think Ian LITTERALLY wanted to carry around BRDs with him. He's just saying that Sony has said, "Console games on the go," twice now. The first time, you bought 2 versions and one was watered down. That was a bummer. He's also saying that even if it worked, he wouldn't like it because he's either playing the EXACT same game or a watered down version of the what he can play at home.

[BlackNMild2k1]

"he wouldn't like it because he's either playing the EXACT same game or a watered down version of the what he can play at home."

well now that makes more sense. You want a unique experience or to carry the same game you were just playing, but on the go.
Sony has just "promised" us the same game on the go, not sure if it's from the same 1 copy you already bought or if you have to buy second version as those are not details they have shared yet. So there is no reason to bitch about it yet. We could get digital copies of games, PSN D/L codes for NGP, NGP games that are transferable to PS3 or even game double packs (PS3 game comes with NGP version in the same case). The point is we don't know that they are doing so there is no point in bitching about it yet.

[Ian Sane]

Right now Sony is promoting the Playstation Suite with is a format that allows you to play the same games over your Android based device and NGP. The NGP is aimed at taking your entire PlayStation Experience and putting it in your "pocket" to go. They said during the conference that their goal was to let you take your PS3 game on the go and continue where you left off. They showed PS3 versions of games running directly off the NGP(and they looked exactly like the PS3 version AFAIC.).

And does this work for every single game?  I highly doubt it.  That's what I'm saying.  They're offering something LIKE their console but it isn't the same thing.  And the way the portable market has worked thus far having something sorta similar has not been very successful.  I guess I just don't trust Sony here as I figure this feature will only be offered for some games.
 
Yes carrying PS3 discs would not be very convenient.  But I'm talking about at some point in the future the console and portable being the same and if that was the case you figure the media (if we're even still using physical media) would be portable-friendly.
 
The whole thing reminds me too much of the PSP where it was kind of like a PS2 but isn't a PS2 and doesn't have enough of its own identity or uniqueness to stand out on its own.  That's all I'm pointing out.  This is too much like PS3-Lite like the PSP was PS2-Lite and that approach has never worked.

[nickmitch]

I'll agree with Ian except for the fact that the "PS3 games on the go" feature is actually a minute selling point. The rear track pad and touch screen can make for some pretty unique gameplay experiences, and I can't wait to see more examples in that area.

[that Baby guy]

I'll agree with Ian except for the fact that the "PS3 games on the go" feature is actually a minute selling point. The rear track pad and touch screen can make for some pretty unique gameplay experiences, and I can't wait to see more examples in that area.

It's a minor selling point until you look at their press conference and see very little in unique IP, and instead see ports or sequels to PS3 games.  The difference between Nintendo and Sony, even though they've done the same in this instance, is that Nintendo has a track record of providing unique and different experiences to their handhelds.

[BlackNMild2k1]

The funny thing about the track pad on back is that this is another classic Sony idea theft.

DS has the touch screen and now PSP2 has 2 of them. I really like the idea of the touch on front and touch on back too though.  I would love to see what people come up with that use either the back pad exclusively or the combo of both.

I'm also expecting Sony to have a revised model in the near future (early 2013?) that incorporates 3D cameras on the back and on the front (still not sure why Nintendo would only put 1 camera on the inside completely omitting the possibilities for 3D video chat, esoecially on a system where you don't have to hold it to use the camera - now that is a major oversight)

[GoldenPhoenix]

The funny thing about the track pad on back is that this is another classic Sony idea theft.

DS has the touch screen and now PSP2 has 2 of them. I really like the idea of the touch on front and touch on back too though.  I would love to see what people come up with that use either the back pad exclusively or the combo of both.

I'm also expecting Sony to have a revised model in the near future (early 2013?) that incorporates 3D cameras on the back and on the front (still not sure why Nintendo would only put 1 camera on the inside completely omitting the possibilities for 3D video chat - now that is a major oversight)

3D video chat makes it easier for child molesters to find kids.

Also Sony always seems to like doing "one more" then Nintendo. Hey Nintendo you have one analog stick, we'll have a controller with two! You have one touch pad? We'll have one with two!

Anyway, can't say I'm horribly excited for PS3 Mini even it has kitchen sinks.

[KnowsNothing]

The price will be as high as the battery life is low.

So in other words, you think it will actually cost less than the 3DS?   :

Haha, well if the NGP's average battery life lasts longer than the 3DS's in a real world scenario I will eat my left foot.  I simply don't believe it.  I guess that's being way too presumptuous at this point, but since this is the internet and no one cares if I'm wrong I'll say it loud and proud!

[nickmitch]

I'll agree with Ian except for the fact that the "PS3 games on the go" feature is actually a minute selling point. The rear track pad and touch screen can make for some pretty unique gameplay experiences, and I can't wait to see more examples in that area.

It's a minor selling point until you look at their press conference and see very little in unique IP, and instead see ports or sequels to PS3 games.  The difference between Nintendo and Sony, even though they've done the same in this instance, is that Nintendo has a track record of providing unique and different experiences to their handhelds.

True, but that's for now. I feel like the emphasis was to show of the graphical prowess of the system; eventhough, it does look like there will be a bunch of PS3 ports. Stil, the system has features that give it a chance to provide some really creative and unique experiences.

[BlackNMild2k1]

The funny thing about the track pad on back is that this is another classic Sony idea theft.

DS has the touch screen and now PSP2 has 2 of them. I really like the idea of the touch on front and touch on back too though.  I would love to see what people come up with that use either the back pad exclusively or the combo of both.

I'm also expecting Sony to have a revised model in the near future (early 2013?) that incorporates 3D cameras on the back and on the front (still not sure why Nintendo would only put 1 camera on the inside completely omitting the possibilities for 3D video chat - now that is a major oversight)

3D video chat makes it easier for child molesters to find kids.

The device cost $250+, I doubt many kids are buying it for themselves. It can be friend list only enabled and be tied to Parental Controls. It's just an oversight to what could've been a forward-looking and trendsetting feature to be copied by all 3D phones in the near future.

Also Sony always seems to like doing "one more" then Nintendo. Hey Nintendo you have one analog stick, we'll have a controller with two! You have one touch pad? We'll have one with two!

That's exactly what I meant by "Classic Sony Idea Theft"

SNES has an awsome controller!? PS1 has the same controller, but with double the shoulder buttons!
N64 has 1 analog stick!? PS1 now has 2.
N64 has a rumble pack!? PS1 now has dual rumble... dual shock bitches!!
Wii has motion sensors and camera tracking!? Haha!! so do we only we kinda reversed it !!!
DS has a touchscreen!? PSP2 has 2!!! Now what!
DSi has a camera!? PS2P has 2 BIATCH!!!

...3DS has 3 cameras.... Just wait for PSP2 v2. it will have 3D and 3D video chat

But honestly, I'm liking what I'm seeing of the PSP2 so far. Sony has said if we can't beat them individually on any front, lets fight them all at once on every front.
And it might just be crazy enough to work.

Can't beat the Wii? PS3 on the go!
Can't beat the DS? PSP Supercharged!!
Can't beat the iPhone? Android compatible!!!
iPad/Tablets!? 5" touch screen on the front & back!!!!
Your city don't have Wifi everywhere!? We got 3G built in!!!!!

The only thing NGP is missing is:
No Home Console!? HDMI Video Out!!!! Play it on your big screen!!!!!!

They are literally taking on all comers in one device so I expect this thing honestly cost around $499.99 for them to break even.
Will they subsidize that with mandatory 3G contracts? I hope not. But I know they are not planning a 3G-less version so you should at the very least have options of a subsidized contract or not. But Sony also said they may be taking a loss (which I believe they did with the PSP as well ~$100 at first). so maybe this thing launches with a price point of $399 retail/$249 subsidized (from $499.99) w/ 2yr contract.


edit: Looks like I've seen a contradicting report to one I read last night.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-01-27-sony-outlines-ngp-asynchronous-gaming
NGP will have a 3G-less version, but I'm sure the pricing I estimated before could still be the same.

Multiple versions of the NGP will launch from late 2011, each with Wi-Fi capability. Only one, however, will also feature 3G.

"The first thing to clarify, which I'm not sure the presentation did a perfect job of doing today, is that all of the devices will have Wi-Fi capability; a separate SKU will have 3G," House said.

[ShyGuy]

This porridge is too hot!

This porridge is too cold!

This porridge is just right, but I don't even like porridge so trying to appease my complaints before was pointless.

[BlackNMild2k1]

^I'm glad I'm not the only one that gets it :/


edit: A larger comparison chart

[Adrock]

Sony tried the "taking all comers" approach with PS3 and ended up stripping the system of features later. NGP is a technical beast, but Sony completely missed the point again. The brilliance of the DS was Nintendo really pushed the idea that there were games that couldn't be done the same way on a home console. Even with the touchscreen and touchpad, Sony is still touting NGP primarily as a portable PS3 which is discouraging and likely why they'll remain a distant second to 3DS. It may be more powerful than 3DS, but 3DS is still packing impressive specs. What's really going to hurt Sony is that 3DS is going to be the lead handheld for most 3rd party companies and no quad core processor or 5 inch screen is going to change that. It totally sucks (for Sony; not, you know, for gamers) that Nintendo has been actively courting 3rd parties for big releases. Sony hasn't really done anything here that convinces anyone that NGP is a better choice than 3DS.

Still, I will likely buy a NGP at some point, after a revision and price drop, as I'm sure there will be games I'll want on the platform though I'll always wish they'd just come out on PS3. However, I have no intention of starting a game on PS3 and taking it with me on NGP and transferring my progress over. I leave my apartment so I can do things other than play videogames. Not to mention I have a sneaking suspicion that such a feature would require buying 2 versions of the same game.

Hmmm... I don't see "jailbroken" as a feature. I guess they'll add it later.

I'm quoting you because I believe you deserve credit for these lulz.

[BlackNMild2k1]

It may be more powerful than 3DS, but 3DS is still producing impressive results.

I fixed that for you. I'm not sure how impressive the 3DS specs are, especially in comparison to the NGP, but the visual result isn't that far off.
But the whole beauty of the Sony approach is that they've done this before and it hasn't worked out. They've done the Bigger.Badder.Better. thing to death and it will keep things interesting, especially if they price it anywhere within range of the 3DS.

[Ian Sane]

Thinking about it now the DS actually seems like all the more brilliant of an idea.  With the GBA there was a clear distinction from the Gamecube.  2D games go on the GBA, 3D games go on the Cube.  2D console games were just rare so the two formats were quite distinct beyond just one being a handheld.  The DS is ready to go and it can do polygons.  So that's means it's going to get 3D games like the consoles get but they're going to be clearly inferior from a technical point of view.  But no console can have dual screens and a touchscreen.  I personally have never been impressed by those features but they do stand out.  It gave the DS a way to differentiate itself from the Cube and Wii.

Was that on purpose or is it a fluke?  I figure the DS's extra doodads were primarily put in to attract non-gamers as Nintendo figured a touchscreen would be more intuitive to those that don't regularly play videogames.  But maybe this was also taken into consideration.  And it will continue with the 3DS which has a feature no console could recreate so no matter what the Wii 2 turns out to be a 3DS would remain an essential purchase even if you just play it at home.

[Adrock]

I think all those things were taken into consideration with DS. Despite a complete lack of foresight in the console market, Nintendo saw that the handheld market was in danger of becoming obsolete so they took it upon themselves to make it more than a portable console.

Sony, on the other hand, still hasn't figured that out. NGP is first a foremost a portable PS3 to them. Their best chance was to out-innovate Nintendo and the trackpad was the best they could do. While nice and all, that's not going to get it done. Additionally, they probably didn't expect 3DS hardware to be so powerful. Nintendo is in an excellent position. 3DS is getting tons of support and positive buzz despite the hefty price tag and battery concerns. On top of that, even if Sony attempts to take a huge loss and launch at or around the same price, Nintendo has the option of dropping the price AND still making a profit. Nintendo is showing how much they understand the market. The only thing Sony seems to have learned is that UMD sucks.

[BlackNMild2k1]

http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/27/engadget-interview-sceas-jack-tretton-talks-sony-ngp-announce/?utm_source=API&utm_medium=twitter

We weren't able to get him to budge on the issue of the NGP's price, but we did ask him to opine on the Nintendo 3DS's $250 tag. Instead of offering friendly competitive jabs, he said only, "I think if the quality's there, then the people will find a way to buy it, within reason... I think that if you could create content that consumers sees compelling, they'll find money that they didn't think they had." A bit too reminiscent of former boss Ken Kutaragi's old adages, but hey, it's not like we expected a sub-$300 sticker, anyway.

......$499.99?

[that Baby guy]

I laugh at the idea that some Kotaku editors were expecting a $250-$300 price tag before the console was revealed.  I swear, if I hadn't seen them in person at E3, I'd think they were from a different world.

[Ian Sane]

I think if the quality's there, then the people will find a way to buy it, within reason... I think that if you could create content that consumers sees compelling, they'll find money that they didn't think they had.

I always find it funny when people gives answers like this.  Who falls for it?  This means "it's expensive" because if the price was affordable he would just say it's affordable.  It's like how Nintendo gave us this whole runaround when we asked about the Wii specs.  That meant the specs were not impressive or else they would have openly revealed them.
 
It's like when Barbara Walters asks someone if they're gay.  If they talk about how one's private life should not be public, etc. then it means they're gay because if they weren't they would just say "no".
 
Or my favourite is "I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer" which means "I totally did exactly what you are accusing me of."

[lolmonade]

I'm going to guess that the PSP2 will be priced at $349.99 in the U.S. 

If Sony has learned ANYTHING (I know most people think they haven't), they will have realized from the PS3 that there is a point where the it becomes a barrier to entry.  If they want a chance at being competitive with the 3DS, then they will need to stay within $100 difference of the 3DS, and even my guessed list price is probably at least $50 more than the average consumer is willing to spend on this kind of device. Sony's model is to sell their consoles at a considerable loss for the sake of staying within a moderate price range for the sake of market penetration.

It's apparent from the specs and design that they're concerned about Nintendo AND Apple.  Two touch screens, 3G connectivity, 2 cameras, not to mention all the other specs.  They are trying to make it so you will be able to have the same game experience as the iPhone and DS, which is actually not a terrible idea.  It's apparent that they want you to only have their device by the way they've designed the PSP2, given the Swiss-army knife approach.  All those neat features won't mean anything though if the games aren't there, and I expect Sony to rely on their back catalog of games from prior consoles to cushion their library.

I would expect the following to happen:

• Ports of iphone games to both PSP2 and 3DS's digital distribution
• PS1, PS2, PSP1, and PS3 (Playstation 3 Retail and PSN games) games playable via PSN digital purchases (Flower on the go!)
• Cartridges with PSP2 games sold in stores to appease retailers
• you WILL have to re-purchase PS3 games as digital format to play on PSP2
• Skype integration (front-facing camera + 3G/WI-FI allows this, and is a feature on new iPhone)
• Netflix Streaming Application
• Heavy support of 1st Party developers with trickling 3rd party support

[TJ Spyke]

I don't know if they want to take a loss. based on what we know, the NGP looks like it will cost Sony way more than $350 to manufacture it. Sony is making a major mistake by trying to stick as much tech as possible into the system. Most people will not use all of the features and Sony will either have to charge and obscene amount of money for it, or price it so low that they will lose even more money than they did with the PS3. Hell, they will probably do both (charge more than most people would be willing to pay for a handheld and still take a large loss on each unit).

Also, if Sony thinks Nintendo is charging a fair amount for the 3DS, then I can only imagine what they will charge for the NGP.