Topic: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread

[MegaByte]

Super Mario World is definitely my favorite of the 2-D Mario platformers.  The primary reason is its secrets.  No other Mario game has had to many secret exits and such a non-linear world.  Sure other games have lots of items, but it's not about items, it's about finding new places to explore and not being forced down a one-way street.  No other 2-D Mario game (except for SML2, which was somewhat based on SMW) has contained such a magnitude of these elements, and thus none have matched SMW's brilliance.  Additionally, SMW was the first to introduce elements that can actually change other levels, such as the Switch Blocks, and the only one to include an evolution of the overworld landscape itself.  SMW was a game that had a perfect balance of exploration while still retaining the classic Mario platforming feeling where you knew you were going for the goal posts at the end.  SMW was a magical introduction to the SNES just as SMB was to the NES.

The debate between SMB3 and SMW is endless, but for me SMW is the epitome of the series.  Sure, the suits were cool in SMB3, but SMW distilled Mario's powers down to the essentials while giving him new physical tricks like the upward throw, and of course, the addition of Yoshi was a game-changer.  SMW's base was SMB3, as proven by early versions of the game, but the expansive and colorful environments really made a difference.  The sheer number of ROM hacks for the game show just how great of a game engine the game had.  On the negative side, SMW did seem to lose some environment diversity, and it was the first Mario game to include several music tracks based on the same tune, though the music itself was good and the presence of Yoshi adding a drum track was genius.

I have a lot of fond memories of SMW, even before the game came out.  When I was younger, I always got consoles several years after their release.  I didn't get a Super Nintendo until about 1995; my parents bought me a TurboGrafx-16 for Christmas because it was cheaper.  But I remember seeing Super Mario World featured on GamePro back when they had a Saturday morning TV show.  They showed how to get to Special World.  In 1994, I was able to play my uncle's SNES when we were visiting my grandfather.  I remembered the steps to finding Special World, managed to complete them and spent that vacation navigating my way through its brutal courses.

Nintendo Power's SMW Player's Guide, Mario Mania, was probably their greatest effort.  Not only did it lay out all 74 levels and 96 exits in the game, it also gave a history of Mario that was relatively unknown at that time, and even included statistics like number of blocks that Mario can jump in each game, depending on whether he's running, etc.  It was that kind of detail that really showed dedication, a kind that is hard to find now.

[Dasmos]

I think SMB3 and SMW are definetly designed to fit the gaming population at the time in regards to the secrets exits and items etc. Because there wasn't any Internet or a wide variety of publications or anything exposing these secrets anything you learnt had to be discovered or learnt through word of mouth. Countless times I can remember friends pointing things out or suggesting a better way to go through the level when paying these games. And I was ecstatic when I thought I found a secret exit or a a superior tactic, because it meant I could tell my friends and get it out there.

SMB had this to a degree, but it was more glitches found than secrets.

[Nick DiMola]

The Super Mario World vs. Super Mario Bros. 3 debate in my opinion strongly parallels the Super Mario 64 vs. Super Mario Galaxy debate. Super Mario World and Super Mario 64 are strongly rooted in exploration whereas both Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario Galaxy are about the varied levels and the experience of getting from the start of the level to the end.

I stand firmly on the exploration side, as Super Mario World and Super Mario 64 (and Sunshine) are my favorites in the series. The series really hit stride for me when it started focusing on these elements. That linear style will always be great, but exploring every nook and cranny is just more satisfying for me.

[Peachylala]

I hated the goombas in SMW, they looked like walking apples. Terrible design.

HOLY ****, THAT'S A GOOMBA?!

I For the past 18 years I honestly thought they were walking (and flying) apples.

I'm sitting here, reading through the threads saying to myself "where the Hell are these Goombas people keep talking about".  I had no idea they were in front of me the whole time.

My life has been turned upside down.

I absolutely hated the Goomba design in SMW. HATED. IT.

Agreed with GP. They looked like turd apples. Seriously.

[MegaByte]

The Super Mario World vs. Super Mario Bros. 3 debate in my opinion strongly parallels the Super Mario 64 vs. Super Mario Galaxy debate. Super Mario World and Super Mario 64 are strongly rooted in exploration whereas both Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario Galaxy are about the varied levels and the experience of getting from the start of the level to the end.

I stand firmly on the exploration side, as Super Mario World and Super Mario 64 (and Sunshine) are my favorites in the series. The series really hit stride for me when it started focusing on these elements. That linear style will always be great, but exploring every nook and cranny is just more satisfying for me.

That's an interesting distinction.  I actually don't like SM64 that much and like SMG because it is more directed.  But I like SMW more than SMB3.  The difference, I feel, is that SMW was able to pull off having exploration while still having an end-level goal.  It did this primarily by having multiple goals, which still made the game primarily about platforming, which SM64 wasn't.

[Stratos]

I still have that Mario Mania players guide, MegaByte. It was how I finally figured out the Cheese Bridge secret exit that had been a thorn in my back for a long while.

[Nick DiMola]

The person upthread who said that the graphics and music suffered a little in the transition to a GBA cart wasn't kidding.  I haven't noticed a huge change in the graphics, but the music that is so great on the SNES version suffers greatly.  I do like that they give the player the option to play as Mario and Luigi, though, even if Luigi has sort of wonky controls.

The GBA version is also easier. In the SNES version if you have a power-up, let's say the cape, and you get hit, you turn into small Mario, no downward progression into normal big Mario first. The GBA version brings back that more typical hit progression, as seen in most other Mario games.

I'm not certain of this, but I also think that managing your extra box is harder in the SNES version too. If you pick up a Mushroom and you have a Flower or Feather in there, it'll replace it. For some reason I don't seem to remember that happening in the GBA version. I think it gives you the points for the Mushroom and then essentially throws the power-up away.

[noname2200]

The focus on the power-ups in SMB3 vs. those in World make me want to clarify myself a bit. While the power-ups are damned cool in and of themselves, I bring them up because they're emblematic of something that the prior Mario games had in greater quantities than World does. The prior ones just generally feel more whimsical than World does, and that's something that I still look for in my Mario games.

 Again, I actually think the cape is a better power-up from a gameplay perspective than most of those that preceded it, but it doesn't feel as fresh, creative, or surprising as those which came before. That feeling stretches to the rest of the game: World is built better, but it lacks the sense of wonder that makes me prefer 3 in particular over this game.

This discussion is awesome. Yet on the subject of castles, they didn't have the danger feeling that the Airships had in SMB3, but the traps more or less made up for it.

This is true, but I think 90% of that is because the airships were (slowly) auto-scrolling, so you had to keep up a constant pace, but also one which forced you to stay in fire zones for much longer than you would want to. The fact that off-screen projectiles can come at any time only heighten this. By contrast, you get to control the pacing in World's fortresses, an added bit of control that makes the level feel less intimidating overall.

The other 10% comes from the less-dramatic music in World, and the fact that the fortresses are generally well-lit, while the airships are in a thunderstorm.

[TJ Spyke]

The Super Mario World vs. Super Mario Bros. 3 debate in my opinion strongly parallels the Super Mario 64 vs. Super Mario Galaxy debate. Super Mario World and Super Mario 64 are strongly rooted in exploration whereas both Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario Galaxy are about the varied levels and the experience of getting from the start of the level to the end.

With SMB 3 and SMW, there is a good debate. I'm not sure how anyone can claim Super Mario 64 is even close to being as good as Super Mario Galaxy is.

I didn't mind the Goomba design. Yeah it was weird, but I liked it. I would consider those to be a different variation of Goomba.

I thought the GBA version of the game was fine. Yes it was a little easier, but it was still a great game and that version was still one of the best 2D platformers. I was glad they fixed that earlier design of making you revert to small Mario no matter what. I thought it was stupid that you could have the cape but you would revert to small form if you got hit.

[Sundoulos]

I just remembered that you don't even get the feather (and cape) until after defeating Larry in the first castle.  I guess they wanted you to learn to use Yoshi in the first few sections before introducing the cape.  Or am I remembering this incorrectly? 

@noname: I love the music in SMW, but I do wish that most of the songs didn't use variations on the same melody.  I love the castle music, and the overworld music in the Forest of Illusion area. 

Since we're discussing power-ups, my biggest complaint about NSMB was the power ups they added.  As much as I liked the game, it doesn't hold a candle to the best of the Mario Series.  The Mega and mini mushroos were cool, but they both had a limited applications.  I hated the blue shell, but that may just have been because there were limited areas where you could use it without accidentally killing yourself.  It either needed a tune-up or a different trigger.

Here's what I'm worried about for NSMB Wii.  The levels in games like SMB3 and SMW have may hidden areas that could only be reached by flight or doing things like running up a wall.  The multiplayer aspect of the NSMB seems as if it would liimit the possiblity of level exploration, and thus dictate a dumbed down level design.  It would be difficult to have the wide open areas of SMW in a four player arena, at least without making your comrades drop off the screen.  It makes me sad to think that we might never again see a Mario game with the elegant level designs like in SMW.

Incidentally, NMSB Wii makes me fear for my marriage.  Based on past experiences with Lego Star Wars, I can imagine my wife and I getting in arguments over accidentally killing each other.   

[vudu]

I'm not certain of this, but I also think that managing your extra box is harder in the SNES version too. If you pick up a Mushroom and you have a Flower or Feather in there, it'll replace it. For some reason I don't seem to remember that happening in the GBA version. I think it gives you the points for the Mushroom and then essentially throws the power-up away.

This is untrue.  In the SNES version, if you pick up a mushroom when you already have a better power up in the item box all you'll get is 1,000 points.

[Stratos]

The focus on the power-ups in SMB3 vs. those in World make me want to clarify myself a bit. While the power-ups are damned cool in and of themselves, I bring them up because they're emblematic of something that the prior Mario games had in greater quantities than World does. The prior ones just generally feel more whimsical than World does, and that's something that I still look for in my Mario games.

 Again, I actually think the cape is a better power-up from a gameplay perspective than most of those that preceded it, but it doesn't feel as fresh, creative, or surprising as those which came before. That feeling stretches to the rest of the game: World is built better, but it lacks the sense of wonder that makes me prefer 3 in particular over this game.

I really think this is your nostalgia for the game kicking in. One is more whimsical than the other? Carrying out a spotted egg and TNTing a castle while the egg says "Thank you" seems fairly whimsical to me.

Also, SMB3 was a break from the mold in Mario games. Including both Mario Brothers Lost Levels and Super Mario Brothers 2 USA, there are not a whole lot of powerups in any of them. SMB3 was a drastic change in that department with the adding of a dozen powerups or so. Mario World was merely going back to the norm of the series in that regard.

[noname2200]

No, I don't think nostalgia is the issue: I've played both of them recently, and I was about the same age when I played them originally (remember, they came out about a year apart). I stand by my position; World has its moments (such as the massive Bullet Bills, or Bowser riding a giant flying clown car), but they are fewer and more far between than in 3 in particular. I don't want to reiterate my first post, but that post contains many examples to support my idea that 3 threw more way-out-there things at you than World does.

Again, the power-ups (not just the number, but the sheer out-of-left-field quality they had) are just one, most tangible and visible example of what I'm getting at.

[Sundoulos]

One thing that I did miss about SMB3, was the ever-present variations of the Hammer Bros., especially the seemingly random airship encounters.  You got the Boomerang Bros., Fire Bros., and the Sledge Hammer Brothers as well.

SMW did have the large Hammer Brothers on the platforms as well as weird Sumo Guys that shoot lightning.

[Nick DiMola]

The Super Mario World vs. Super Mario Bros. 3 debate in my opinion strongly parallels the Super Mario 64 vs. Super Mario Galaxy debate. Super Mario World and Super Mario 64 are strongly rooted in exploration whereas both Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario Galaxy are about the varied levels and the experience of getting from the start of the level to the end.

With SMB 3 and SMW, there is a good debate. I'm not sure how anyone can claim Super Mario 64 is even close to being as good as Super Mario Galaxy is.

Super Mario 64 is better, by a large magnitude at that. Galaxy was ok, but by no means all that great.

[GoldenPhoenix]

The Super Mario World vs. Super Mario Bros. 3 debate in my opinion strongly parallels the Super Mario 64 vs. Super Mario Galaxy debate. Super Mario World and Super Mario 64 are strongly rooted in exploration whereas both Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario Galaxy are about the varied levels and the experience of getting from the start of the level to the end.

With SMB 3 and SMW, there is a good debate. I'm not sure how anyone can claim Super Mario 64 is even close to being as good as Super Mario Galaxy is.

Super Mario 64 is better, by a large magnitude at that. Galaxy was ok, but by no means all that great.

SMS is better then both. Also I think SMG is better then SM64. So take that Mr. Pants!

One thing that I did miss about SMB3, was the ever-present variations of the Hammer Bros., especially the seemingly random airship encounters.  You got the Boomerang Bros., Fire Bros., and the Sledge Hammer Brothers as well.

SMW did have the large Hammer Brothers on the platforms as well as weird Sumo Guys that shoot lightning.

You are right, that is one thing that SMB3 had that was extremely unique with it, dangers present on the overworld itself. You had to plot your course accordingly to avoid stuff like the hammer bros (or you could just fight them), and even the last world has a really neat segment where you could be drug down into a level. Or in world 4 where the bridge opens and closes allowing you a shortcut.

[Nick DiMola]

SMS is better then both. Also I think SMG is better then SM64. So take that Mr. Pants!

Sunshine is most definitely better than both. Can't agree on the other, but that's a-ok.

[GoldenPhoenix]

SMS is better then both. Also I think SMG is better then SM64. So take that Mr. Pants!

Sunshine is most definitely better than both. Can't agree on the other, but that's a-ok.

Well at least you partially made up for it!

[TheYoungerPlumber]

The person upthread who said that the graphics and music suffered a little in the transition to a GBA cart wasn't kidding.  I haven't noticed a huge change in the graphics, but the music that is so great on the SNES version suffers greatly.  I do like that they give the player the option to play as Mario and Luigi, though, even if Luigi has sort of wonky controls.

The GBA version is also easier. In the SNES version if you have a power-up, let's say the cape, and you get hit, you turn into small Mario, no downward progression into normal big Mario first. The GBA version brings back that more typical hit progression, as seen in most other Mario games.

Ah, I had forgotten about this change. This is silly, since the game throws so many lives at you, and has a save-anywhere feature. Did it need to be even easier?

[Nick DiMola]

I'm not certain of this, but I also think that managing your extra box is harder in the SNES version too. If you pick up a Mushroom and you have a Flower or Feather in there, it'll replace it. For some reason I don't seem to remember that happening in the GBA version. I think it gives you the points for the Mushroom and then essentially throws the power-up away.

This is untrue.  In the SNES version, if you pick up a mushroom when you already have a better power up in the item box all you'll get is 1,000 points.

Just checked this out and I do believe my initial assumption is correct. I tried a few different scenarios and whether it was a flower or a feather in the box, it would replace it with a mushroom if I picked it up. It seems that I was wrong in assuming that the same didn't happen in the GBA version, though. Both versions behave the same in this case, the mushroom will replace the better power-up no matter what.

[Peachylala]

SMS is better then both. Also I think SMG is better then SM64. So take that Mr. Pants!

Sunshine is most definitely better than both. Can't agree on the other, but that's a-ok.

Well at least you partially made up for it!

To me, the 3-D Mario series goes like this in terms of quality.

Super Mario Galaxy
Super Mario Sunshine
Super Mario 64

Despite it's flaws, I think SMS is still a quality title despite having been rushed.

No, I don't think nostalgia is the issue: I've played both of them recently, and I was about the same age when I played them originally (remember, they came out about a year apart). I stand by my position; World has its moments (such as the massive Bullet Bills, or Bowser riding a giant flying clown car), but they are fewer and more far between than in 3 in particular. I don't want to reiterate my first post, but that post contains many examples to support my idea that 3 threw more way-out-there things at you than World does.

Again, the power-ups (not just the number, but the sheer out-of-left-field quality they had) are just one, most tangible and visible example of what I'm getting at.

The power ups in Super Mario 3 were plentiful, but the only ones that I found useful (and new to the game era wise) were the Leaf/Tanooki Suit/P-Wing and the Hammer Bros. suit. The rest just took up space, and were not really that useful except for the rare situations that may have popped up.

Also, SMW's world map is my favorite world map. It's landscape changed if you reached certain exits. I thought that was awesome.

[vudu]

Just checked this out and I do believe my initial assumption is correct. I tried a few different scenarios and whether it was a flower or a feather in the box, it would replace it with a mushroom if I picked it up. It seems that I was wrong in assuming that the same didn't happen in the GBA version, though. Both versions behave the same in this case, the mushroom will replace the better power-up no matter what.

Really?  Color me surprised.  I was so sure of myself ....

[Jonnyboy117]

I don't see much point in ranking Mario games. They're all great and all different, so I find it more interesting (and open-ended) to look at and celebrate their differences.

[Sundoulos]

Just checked this out and I do believe my initial assumption is correct. I tried a few different scenarios and whether it was a flower or a feather in the box, it would replace it with a mushroom if I picked it up. It seems that I was wrong in assuming that the same didn't happen in the GBA version, though. Both versions behave the same in this case, the mushroom will replace the better power-up no matter what.

Really?  Color me surprised.  I was so sure of myself ....

Yeah, after Mr. Jack said that, I tried it for myself as well.  The mushroom will replace the other power-ups.

[Stratos]

I don't see much point in ranking Mario games. They're all great and all different, so I find it more interesting (and open-ended) to look at and celebrate their differences.

Celebrate Diversity FTW 

In the Mario Universe, everybody is a winner!

Nice to hear some other voices stick up for Sunshine. It was a good game.