Author Topic: Rape Games and You  (Read 30344 times)

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Offline Smash_Brother

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2009, 04:25:19 PM »
This is a thousand times worse.  Should we have the right to make this game?  Yes.  But defending it will make it look like we're all into rape sims when we're not.  Supporting it will make all of us look bad.  So **** it.  Throw these idiots to the wolves and disassociate ourselves from them because they're just going to ruin it for the rest of us.  Things are not secure enough yet for us to stand our ground on something like this.  Damning the rape game is probably going to give us more credibility than using it to stand up against censorship.  When fighting against censorship for films you don't point out porn, you point out something like Midnight Cowboy.  To get people on our side we need to point out the great videogame art that will censored not the exploitative trash.  "Fight against censorship by supporting the rape game" is going to have the opposite effect.

There have been some good arguments in this thread but I have to agree with Ian here.

Even the most heinous of American cinema has never popularized a movie that follows a protagonist who rapes children and expects the audience to not find it repulsive. Movies like that exist somewhere, I'm sure, but you don't see anyone defending them or lumping them in with mainstream cinema.

The way I see it, the reality is that public outcry is going to startle politicians and they'll immediately go looking for answers about what the hell is going on.

The message we want to send should be "99.9% of games aren't like this!", not to come across as defending rape games in any way, shape or form. You have to remember that we're not talking about rational people here. Rational people would understand the argument that free speech must be applied to all things. Irrational people, however, will not understand this argument and will interpret it as gamers saying they see nothing wrong with rape games.

The other real issue here is that we're talking about a medium that has yet to be established as artistic in the mainstream view. Most people either view videogames as an enjoyable hobby, a device for promoting social togetherness and well-being (thanks to the Wii and its blue ocean) or devices designed to turn children into serial killers.

I've yet to see a game ad posting review taglines like, "Powerful.", "An emotional thrill ride." or "Heartwarming.", probably because the mainstream just doesn't yet view the medium as something that can hit their emotions just as hard as any movie or book.

So yeah, I agree that defending this would basically be viewed as throwing our lot in with the developers of rape games when we should be doing everything we can to distance ourselves from them. Games already aren't viewed as being art or having any redeeming social value. Sending the message of support for rape games would be the last nail in the coffin for gaming's chance at rising above its current mainstream view and would bring the government down on the gaming industry like an anvil on a watermelon.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2009, 04:33:13 PM by Smash_Brother »
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Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2009, 08:57:55 PM »
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The message we want to send should be "99.9% of games aren't like this!", not to come across as defending rape games in any way, shape or form. You have to remember that we're not talking about rational people here. Rational people would understand the argument that free speech must be applied to all things. Irrational people, however, will not understand this argument and will interpret it as gamers saying they see nothing wrong with rape games.
I don't believe we should try to appeal to irrational people nor make exception for them. We should fight them, vigorously. I'm not worried about how well video games are established as art or anything else, because the business is just way too huge at this point.

Offline Stratos

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2009, 09:01:26 PM »
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The message we want to send should be "99.9% of games aren't like this!", not to come across as defending rape games in any way, shape or form. You have to remember that we're not talking about rational people here. Rational people would understand the argument that free speech must be applied to all things. Irrational people, however, will not understand this argument and will interpret it as gamers saying they see nothing wrong with rape games.
I don't believe we should try to appeal to irrational people nor make exception for them. We should fight them, vigorously. I'm not worried about how well video games are established as art or anything else, because the business is just way too huge at this point.

But didn't something like this happen to comics back in the 50's or something? They got severely crippeled by government regulation.
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Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2009, 09:12:44 PM »
Yes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comics_Code_Authority

You couldn't even have comic books with totally awesome zombies in them and a number of companies went out of business.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2009, 09:27:26 PM »
Rape games provide a non-criminal outlet for such fantasies... I don't think banning them will improve anything, and may even make things worse because that outlet is gone. People who play video games are lethargic lazy couch-potatoes who don't have the willpower to get off their ass and hurt someone, so I say let them be.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2009, 11:20:21 PM »
Rape games provide a non-criminal outlet for such fantasies... I don't think banning them will improve anything, and may even make things worse because that outlet is gone. People who play video games are lethargic lazy couch-potatoes who don't have the willpower to get off their ass and hurt someone, so I say let them be.

Have you ever seen those news headlines where someone killed someone else in the realword because of an bad deal in an MMO? There have been a number of these incidents in Asia. I think Japan and Korea for a couple of them if I recall.

People are people. I don't discount anyone to be unable to do anything. Call me a cynic, but when someone snaps and kills people, and the neighbors get interviewed and say "They were such a nice person, I would have never thought they could do something like this" I'm not surprised. There are so many elements and enotions involved that anyone could be pushed to the brink if the right buttons are pushed.
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Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #31 on: July 02, 2009, 11:56:03 PM »
I don't buy into the idea that entertainment media is either an outlet or an agent of influence. The evidence is zero and even the retarded anecdotes are in like the single digits. It basically exists as just entertainment and does relatively little to influence our (deviant) behavior.

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2009, 04:27:08 AM »
I think we should point at schemes like internet censorship. Germany and Australia introduced that to block child porn and pretty quickly politicians got the idea to use the censoring to block violent videogames.

Offline Stratos

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2009, 06:17:37 AM »
Is that really where the game censorship there came from? I didn't know that.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2009, 10:52:19 AM »
No, the ratings were before then but both countries are implementing internet censorship now. I don't think games have been banned yet but the politicians want to do it...

Offline Smash_Brother

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2009, 02:38:08 PM »
I don't believe we should try to appeal to irrational people nor make exception for them. We should fight them, vigorously. I'm not worried about how well video games are established as art or anything else, because the business is just way too huge at this point.

I don't believe in doing anything for them either, but sadly a lot of the people in power tend to be incredibly irrational and easily bullied into doing things for legions of other irrational people who will cry bloody murder at the idea of a rape game.

Yeah, the business is huge, but I don't want to see what would happen in a battle between the government and the gaming industry. The industry has nothing to gain and literally everything to lose.

I don't think games have been banned yet but the politicians want to do it...

This is my primary concern. Jack Thompson is a nutcase who thoroughly failed to actually persuade anyone to his side.

But there are far smarter, more determined politicians who would likewise see tougher restrictions tossed upon gaming and if they got it into their thick heads that games in general are all about enacting violent rape fantasies, we could kiss the ESRB goodbye because it'll be a foregone conclusion to these people that the ESRB wasn't doing its job, even if these games are only being sold and rated in Japan.

http://www.screwattack.com/myvidsdontsuck/Final/TheGameOverThinker

I think he sums it up pretty well. You can't argue with these people. Trying to defend rape games as a valid part of the medium due to freedom of speech, to these people, would be like trying to teach a monkey long division.

We're far better off distancing ourselves and the medium from rape games and convincing more people to buy Wiis.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2009, 07:29:05 PM by Smash_Brother »
"OK, first we need someone to complain about something trivial. Golden or S_B should do. Then we get someone to defend the game, like Bill or Mashiro. Finally add some Unclebob or Pro666 randomness and the thread should go to hell right away." -Pap64

Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2009, 03:17:39 PM »
Let's get away from the religious discussion everybody.  That's a one-way ticket to Threadlockville.
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Offline DAaaMan64

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2009, 07:57:48 PM »
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It's generally a disaster when the fed. gov starts regulating market products, prices go up. eww

Yeah just look at what deregulation did for gasoline in the past years.

ha, I'm not arguing with you on that. Beyond the scope of the rules here. Sorry ;)
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Offline Morari

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2009, 11:37:16 PM »
Let's get away from the religious discussion everybody.  That's a one-way ticket to Threadlockville.

You'd think an entire thread based around politics would already be purchasing that boarding pass...
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Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2009, 12:24:31 AM »
Let's get away from the religious discussion everybody.  That's a one-way ticket to Threadlockville.

You'd think an entire thread based around politics would already be purchasing that boarding pass...

Morari, I really like how you've gone from a terrible to good poster since you registered and wish I had expressed this earlier but right now you're 3 for 3 on awful, irrelevant posts in this thread. Can you just say what you think about my assertions in my OP?  tia~

Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #40 on: July 04, 2009, 03:10:09 AM »
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http://www.screwattack.com/myvidsdontsuck/Final/TheGameOverThinker

I think he sums it up pretty well. You can't argue with these people. Trying to defend rape games as a valid part of the medium due to freedom of speech, to these people, would be like trying to teach a monkey long division.
Pretty sure that's the exact opposite of what he said in that vid, in which he encourages us to argue a lot and not roll over like babies. Although that vid was a long and insane propaganda-like video, he is right that the freedom of game design is automatically the winning side of the argument vs censored content and the only way to lose that argument in the arena of debate is to be a fuckup. I believe that accepting a ban on a type of game (even an awful one) rather than standing firm on a no-censorship policy would be fucking up -because- things we actually do like would be censored as well. Ergo, Smash_Brother is wrong and I am right.

Quote
We're far better off distancing ourselves and the medium from rape games and convincing more people to buy Wiis.
baby joke goes here

Offline DAaaMan64

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2009, 05:24:30 AM »
Fine.

We can look to the constitution for guidance on this one.  Firstly, rape games would fall under social issue, defaulting it to 10th Amendment material, in other words, laws about rape games are state level exclusively.  SO, under the 1st Amendment the FEDERAL government cannot make them illegal, however, state level it is up to the inhabitants of that state to decide. 
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Offline Morari

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2009, 08:04:10 AM »
Let's get away from the religious discussion everybody.  That's a one-way ticket to Threadlockville.

You'd think an entire thread based around politics would already be purchasing that boarding pass...

Morari, I really like how you've gone from a terrible to good poster since you registered and wish I had expressed this earlier but right now you're 3 for 3 on awful, irrelevant posts in this thread. Can you just say what you think about my assertions in my OP?  tia~

Ah, you really mean that? I'm about to tear up over here. :)

Anyway, so as to not remain completely irrelevant. I think that rape games (much like Jerry Bruckheimer films) are tasteless and should not have any place in this world. Likewise, the people that play them are, at best, extremely insensitive. The psuedo-pedophilia that the Japanese seem to add to much of their erotic materials only furthers the general taste of disgust involved. That said, I do not believe that the games should be banned or limited in any capacity. the games do not harm anyone, nor do I truly believe that they could lead to someone's harm through persuasion. This is true for any video game, book, film, or boardgame. Inanimate objects do not hurt people. Choose-your-own-adventure-books cannot hurt people. Guns cannot hurt people. Videogames certainly cannot hurt people. Only people hurt other people. Crack down on the rapists, not the questionable products that some short-sighted developer threw out.

If we do not fight this now, it will only spread. While I do believe that Ian was correct in some regards in his post above, I think that disassociating oneself from the fold would only open the floodgate for more, even dumber legislation later down the road. The fact of the matter is that nothing should be officially prohibited by anyone unless it does actual, physical harm to someone in a non-consenting manner. Videogames do not fit that descriptor, much like several substances and activities that we do currently have limiting laws placed upon. Slippery slopes generally go downhill.
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Offline Rize

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2009, 03:06:01 PM »
The same argument can be used in support of legalizing all drugs.  Prohibit and arrest people for illegal behavior, not for taking a substance that makes them more likely to commit illegal behavior.

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #44 on: July 04, 2009, 04:17:43 PM »
Fine.

We can look to the constitution for guidance on this one.  Firstly, rape games would fall under social issue, defaulting it to 10th Amendment material, in other words, laws about rape games are state level exclusively.  SO, under the 1st Amendment the FEDERAL government cannot make them illegal, however, state level it is up to the inhabitants of that state to decide. 

Doesn't the SCOTUS interpret the first amendment to mean both federal and state levels? Many videogame restriction laws got shot down by that. However they also arbitrarily decide that porn has no value and is therefore not speech. I'd say objectivism is clearly devoid of any value but I doubt they'd let me ban Ayn Rand...

Offline Morari

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #45 on: July 04, 2009, 07:37:46 PM »
The same argument can be used in support of legalizing all drugs.  Prohibit and arrest people for illegal behavior, not for taking a substance that makes them more likely to commit illegal behavior.

It can be used for that, and should. It is again a matter of no one being harmed outside of those who consent to it (such as the users). Instead, we heighten the criminal activity surrounding said products and substances specifically because they are illegal. Besides, think of all of the tax revenue involved in legalizing everything! We could have something decent, like a working health care system. :P
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #46 on: July 05, 2009, 02:20:06 AM »
Legalized drugs should still go through FDA testing which they'll probably fail hard.

Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #47 on: July 05, 2009, 02:40:16 AM »
anybody play any sweet games about drug use lately?

Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #48 on: July 05, 2009, 02:49:04 AM »
Actually, can someone answer this question for me? Does CERO or EOCS rate PC games that aren't hentai games/visual novels? Like the PC ports of Guilty Gear or Phoenix Wright, for example.

Also, fun fact: almost-popular fighting game Melty Blood is basically a spinoff of a hentai game

Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: Rape Games and You
« Reply #49 on: July 05, 2009, 03:06:36 AM »
anybody play any sweet games about drug use lately?

Does GTA: Chinatown Wars count?  You sell drugs, and it is a sweet game.

It'd be interesting to see a game actually address drug use.  Like have the goal of the game to be to lift yourself out of a life of substance abuse.
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