Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[ShyGuy]

I need to finish this

[Shaymin]

I didn't buy Skyward Sword when I had a chance to buy it for twenty bucks brand new. Beat that.

[Wah]

Skyward sword was awesome 9/10!
What the hell are you guys talking about!

[ShyGuy]

I don't know, the ground levels feel so... lonely.

[Wah]

Not when you have a sacry ass fire demon from hell chasing you!

[NWR_insanolord]

I bought the game at launch and haven't started it. I have gotten a lot of use out of the gold Wii remote, though.

[Stratos]

What game haven't you gotten at launch but not started? It's like you are too busy managing us turkeys to actually play games

[Stogi]

There are a few parts that annoy me; mainly the moments where you have to go around the same place you were just in but search for something else. Other than that, this Zelda has some of the best bosses and easily the best ending of any Zelda.

But mainly, I was most impressed by how well you could control Link and how often the game called for the use of a few or all your items. Never did you receive an item and then use it exclusively for the rest of dungeon. And it was so easy to switch items and use each item with accuracy due to how well Link controls. It'll be a serious step back if they abandon the motionplus.

[Mannypon]

I'm glad you enjoyed it as much as me Stogi, I too thought it was one of the best Zelda's ever.  I think what really got me was how much more personal and deep the story was compared to your typical Zelda' story.  The boss battles are also memorable and totally bad ass lol.  Controls were top notch for me and I still can't stop singing the praises for the sand/ocean area and dungeon.  Amazing.   Skyward Sword was the Zelda game that rekindled my love for the series as I admitted at the time of completion that my love for the series had been suffering. 

[Caterkiller]

I loved the controls, I loved the weapons, I loved the art style, the music actually sounded happy again, and Zelda had a nice personality as well.

I just hate the way flying was implemented. When we first were given hints and actually saw flight I seriously thought the nameless Loftwing would be replacing Epona. I thought we'd be flying over landscapes, water falls and bottomless pits to reach new towns and such. That was the biggest disappointment ever. It was almost as bad as realizing there really was no other major civilizations in Wind Waker. I just want more than one major town with 2 smaller towns containing 5 people each.

But Aonuma and his team tackled a very important issue they just about everyone whined about. He made sure weapons were constantly used everywhere with multiple ways to tackle certain puzzles and I am super grateful about that.

The over world issue with nothing to do was tackled in a sense but we were given 2 over worlds and the 2nd had nothing to do in it as well.

[Stogi]

I think the inherent problem with flying is the fact that you really can't legitimately box-in in the player, and therefore the player could skip over-world puzzles by simply flying above them. I also don't think flying into arbitrary boundaries to stop this problem would have made anyone any happier.

When I first saw SS, I thought it would be more like Wind Waker with a bunch of floating islands that you fly to. I wasn't happy about it really because it seemed to sub a ship for a bird.

And honestly, there is no good way to solve the problem. Zelda needs boundaries. It's the core factor in making a Zelda game. However, adventure is also a core factor. So it's difficult to find a balance.

Unlike something like Xenoblade where it's (mostly) your inexperience that boxes you in, Zelda is all about dungeons and items. So having vistas and herds of animals, waterfalls and mountains will always feel empty after a while because you can never simply push on in a direction and find your way. There will always be a need to turn around that nags you (sometimes literally), to put you on the set path to ultimately make it to the dungeon.

Now if Zelda can go back to it's original self where you're able to beat any dungeon in any order, then you could actually have the huge Xenoblade vistas. But the story would be lacking (which is actually fine by me).

[Luigi Dude]

Now if Zelda can go back to it's original self where you're able to beat any dungeon in any order, then you could actually have the huge Xenoblade vistas. But the story would be lacking (which is actually fine by me).

Even in the original Zelda you couldn't beat any dungeon in any order.  Only the first two dungeons can be done at the start without doing anything else.  Well you can technically do the third as well but it's extremely hard since with 3 hearts and a wooden sword, the Darknuts in that dungeon take forever to kill and kill you in two hit.

Every other dungeon required some kind of item from a previous dungeon to be completed in the original.  So even the original wasn't as non-linear as people remember it to be.

[Ceric]

Now if Zelda can go back to it's original self where you're able to beat any dungeon in any order, then you could actually have the huge Xenoblade vistas. But the story would be lacking (which is actually fine by me).

Even in the original Zelda you couldn't beat any dungeon in any order.  Only the first two dungeons can be done at the start without doing anything else.  Well you can technically do the third as well but it's extremely hard since with 3 hearts and a wooden sword, the Darknuts in that dungeon take forever to kill and kill you in two hit.

Every other dungeon required some kind of item from a previous dungeon to be completed in the original.  So even the original wasn't as non-linear as people remember it to be.

*shrug*
I always did them out of order after the First.  Though if I might just go in and grab the item on some run threws.  One of the things I really like about the LoZ.  Most of the time you could make it threw a dungeon if you had its item.


Also I wouldn't want a game like LoZ with a Huge overworld.

[Ian Sane]

I think being less strict in regards to dungeon order would be a good thing just simply because it shakes up the Zelda formula.  Much of Zelda's charm is in exploration and discovery and if the games are too formulaic both of those no longer apply.  A lot of the gameplay is in puzzle solving and that doesn't work if it's all predictable tropes.  By its very design, the series requires novelty to provide enjoyment.  So going a little off the beaten path in the design is the way to go.

[Spak-Spang]

I think Nintendo needs to take a few lessons from the Mega Man series.  They need to have dungeons and bosses that can be beat in any order, but that have shortcuts and bosses that have weaknesses if you have the correct items.  You could even have multiple dungeon masters/monsters so if you take a different path you can still beat the game.  You could still lock a few dungeons away with story elements that would make those dungeons later levels...but there is something magical about the original Zelda's open world that you accidentally fall into a dungeon and it could be any of the dungeons. 


Zelda should be about exploration, and mystery.  Knowing you are on a quest to stop a great evil, and needing to collect relics and weapons to achieve your purpose, but not knowing exactly where to go.  Needing to gain clues to solve the mysteries of the world and creatures that inhabit the world.  Make the game epic, but not because of bloated story, but because you are in a open world filled with wonder and mystery.  I think less is more.  I would go the route of Metroid and have fewer NPCs and cities...creating a feeling of isolation...and rewarding players with clues to the story and the world when you meet NPCs. 

[Stogi]

What do you think about a Zelda where Link has all the items already?

[ShyGuy]

What do you think about a Zelda where Link has all the items already?

I think it could work, but I don't think most players would like it.

[Ceric]

Spak-Spang I already feel that Zelda games are pretty lonely as they are.  Also about twice as long as they need to be.

[Caliban]

I sure wouldn't mind to play such a game, Stogi. "*Zelda speaks to Link* Here. You have all the items you will ever need. Now go out and explore the planet... *Link gets kicked down into a valley* IKE!!! I will meet you on the other side." Thus making you explore one half of the planet with Link, and the other with Zelda.

[Ian Sane]

I think if you already had all the items a certain thrill of the series would be gone.  One thing I love in Zelda is to see things early on that I can't access but I know I need some item to get by.  Then there's that moment when I find the item and I immediately think "hey, I can now access that place and that one and that one".  There is build-up to solving a simple puzzle that probably just gives me a heart but it really adds to the excitement of the game.  The only way they could recreate that thrill while giving you all the items is with some really clever interconnected puzzle solving, kind of a Myst approach.

[NWR_insanolord]

Giving you all the stuff from the beginning would take away from the adventure of it. There's a reason every Metroid game comes up with a convoluted reason why Samus lost all her abilities. Getting stronger as you go keeps things fresh over the course of the game, and really makes you feel a sense of accomplishment as you progress.

[Mop it up]

On the other hand, what if you started with all the series conventional items, and then everything you gained in dungeons was a brand new item? Then you'd still start with a lot of tools to get around and still find new stuff too.

It would be difficult to do that of course, but not impossible. Banjo-Tooie, for example, has you start with all the moves of the first game, yet you still learn dozens more new ones throughout the game. Of course, not every game can be as amazing as that one...

[NWR_insanolord]

I could see starting with the bow, bombs and boomerang, as those have been in pretty much every game and form the basis of Link's standard move set. Maybe the hookshot. Then have him get the other things over the course of the game. To flip it around, they could pull a Mario Sunshine and have stretches of the game where you lose some or all of them and have to deal with being without items you've come to depend on.

[Stratos]

Didn't they do this in Ocarina? Take away your items when you were captured by the Gerudo and you had to find them again during your escape?

[Luigi Dude]

Didn't they do this in Ocarina? Take away your items when you were captured by the Gerudo and you had to find them again during your escape?

Also did the same thing in Oracle of Ages and Skyward Sword.