Author Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword  (Read 623054 times)

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Offline broodwars

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2000 on: November 25, 2011, 09:53:23 PM »
Oh boy, as the saying goes "**** just got REAL."  Yes, it likely means another fetch quest (of sorts), but this one seems fairly intriguing.  And I'll give Nintendo some credit on some really well-done animation on that last cutscene, as there was some genuine emotion in that scene that's rare to see in Nintendo games.

It's amazing to think that a story this relatively solid and characters that seem this true to their iconic forms came from the same company that brought us Metroid Other M.
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Offline Caliban

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2001 on: November 25, 2011, 10:21:16 PM »
The end.

In 45 hours.
You already beat the game? When did you get it?

Sunday. Could have been done on Thursday if it weren't for work.

Offline marty

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2002 on: November 26, 2011, 12:12:31 AM »
do you ever get a minimap?  That seems like a pretty huge mistake to leave it out considering it worked so well for every other zelda game.  I guess if the people that made SS had actually PLAYED another Zelda game they would have noticed but, I guess they can't be bothered, the idiots.

Offline broodwars

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2003 on: November 26, 2011, 12:28:56 AM »
do you ever get a minimap?  That seems like a pretty huge mistake to leave it out considering it worked so well for every other zelda game.  I guess if the people that made SS had actually PLAYED another Zelda game they would have noticed but, I guess they can't be bothered, the idiots.

I really didn't mind the lack of a minimap, honestly.  The map is pretty easily accessible, and it's not like the environments are actually big and epic like they usually are in Zelda games. </backhanded compliment>

This game is rapidly dropping out of my top tier of Zelda games, though.  I really do like the story, but good God this game is so padded and re-uses so many enemies and assets that you'd think this was a Tri-Ace JRPG.  Remember the Spirited Away boss I mentioned earlier?  The one that was a big, awesome, and epic confrontation? I'm now doing that fight for the third. frickin'. TIME.  And it's gotten less awesome with each passing encounter with this thing, and it's not like this is the first time they've re-used a boss fight. 

On top of all the other obvious padding this game showcases on a by-hour basis, I just don't understand how this game took five years to make.  I really don't, especially since the game world is so small you could probably fit it all inside a handful of Xenoblade's larger maps.  If you stripped away all the re-used encounters and blatant padding with fetch quests and pointless errands, this game would be around 20 hours long.  I'm around 40 now, which I wouldn't mind if that was 40 hours of new experiences, but it's not.  And why is this game so small and the assets so few?  It's a AAA Nintendo flagship game, with presumably all the time and money in the world dumped on it.

  This is getting ridiculous, and it's a shame because when the game isn't playing "keep away" with the story it's really good.  But every time I start to get invested in this game and having a great time, the designers pull the rug out from under me.
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2004 on: November 26, 2011, 12:33:54 AM »
If a mini map is the biggest complaint that you have then I don't see it being a big deal in the scheme of things. Plus the worlds are pretty compact and you tend to play in them alot so the levels should come second nature.Plus if you can't press one single button to bring up the map then well I don't know what to say to you.

I think this game has kinda went back to the exploratory roots of the series. In some respects the game lets you figure things out for yourself like the dungeons while other times it just points you in the right direction.

Oh quick question for those having problems with Fi. Are you using the standard or light interface?
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Offline broodwars

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2005 on: November 26, 2011, 12:40:02 AM »
Oh quick question for those having problems with Fi. Are you using the standard or light interface?

I set my interface to "Pro" as soon as the game let me.

EDIT: Ugh...collecting underwater music notes to "prove my worth"? WTF is this? The crappy Little Mermaid worlds from the Kingdom Hearts games? Banjo-Kazooie?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 12:59:07 AM by broodwars »
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Offline marty

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2006 on: November 26, 2011, 12:59:46 AM »
If a mini map is the biggest complaint that you have then I don't see it being a big deal in the scheme of things. Plus the worlds are pretty compact and you tend to play in them alot so the levels should come second nature.Plus if you can't press one single button to bring up the map then well I don't know what to say to you.

I think this game has kinda went back to the exploratory roots of the series.
The lack of minimap is a symptom of a larger problem that encompasses this game--nothing, NOTHING is designed well.  everything takes at least a few more button presses, a few more minutes than it should.  The game has NO flow.   Fi is part of that.  Endless, un-skipable exposition is part of that.  The disjointed world is part of that.  Yes, pausing every few minutes isn't difficult, but it would be unnecessary if things that worked well were kept in the series.

Look at the town.  How come I can't jump off wherever and call my bird... or why doesn't my bird just show up when I'm at Y coordinate under the island?  Why can't I leave at night?  Why am I wasting any time running back to my bedroom so I can select it to be daytime?  Why is the game pausing every time I pick up a scrap of whatever for the upgrade system that seems totally pointless?

Everything feels anti-intuitive and massively user unfriendly. 

Also, Zelda 1 had a minimap.  This isn't a return to it's roots (since it's roots were basically Gauntlet with a dose of RPG) this is disappearing up one's own ass.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 01:07:18 AM by marty »

Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2007 on: November 26, 2011, 01:09:13 AM »
If a mini map is the biggest complaint that you have then I don't see it being a big deal in the scheme of things. Plus the worlds are pretty compact and you tend to play in them alot so the levels should come second nature.Plus if you can't press one single button to bring up the map then well I don't know what to say to you.

I think this game has kinda went back to the exploratory roots of the series.
The lack of minimap is a symptom of a larger problem that encompasses this game--nothing, NOTHING is designed well.  everything takes at least a few more button presses, a few more minutes than it should.  The game has NO flow.   Fi is part of that.  Endless, un-skipable exposition is part of that.  The disjointed world is part of that.  Yes, pausing every few minutes isn't difficult, but it would be unnecessary if things that worked well were kept in the series.

Look at the town.  How come I can't jump off wherever and call my bird... or why doesn't my bird just show up when I'm at Y coordinate under the island?  Why can't I leave at night?  Why am I wasting any time running back to my bedroom so I can select it to be daytime?  Why is the game pausing every time I pick up a scrap of whatever for the upgrade system that seems totally pointless?

Everything feels anti-intuitive and massively user unfriendly. 
There is enough spots to jump off around the island wherever you may be. You don't have to go back to your bedroom everytime you want to make it day time. Any bed will do to change the time of day. Any of the residents beds will work to change the time of day. The only time it does that is when you power on the game after you stop playing so if you play alot and keep the game on then that isn't an issue.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2008 on: November 26, 2011, 01:09:43 AM »
Look at the town.  How come I can't jump off wherever and call my bird... or why doesn't my bird just show up when I'm at Y coordinate under the island?

You know, that bugged me as well.  An addendum to that is why you can't just land wherever you want on the island when you are clearly falling on a certain part of it.  You can everywhere else in the sky overworld, but in Skyloft you're just teleported to a particular spot on the island when it loads.  That really infuriated me early on until I got the tools to explore certain areas of the island I tried to reach by falling on them.  I don't understand why you can only call you bird when you jump (not fall.  Apparently, your telepathically-linked bird isn't interested in you if you fall from the island) from certain platforms.  It makes no sense, though it's a minor issue compared to all the other gaping flaws this game has, so I overlook it.

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Why can't I leave at night?

I think the story conceit for that is that your Loftwing doesn't have a big flashlight attached to its beak like the "Knights" do, so you can't see when flying at night.  It's silly, but once again a drop in the bucket compared to the real flaws of the game.

The real answer, of course, is that Nintendo couldn't be bothered to design either overworld so it is lit properly for play at night.  That actually bothers me more on the surface than it does Skyloft.

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Why am I wasting any time running back to my bedroom so I can select it to be daytime?

Because obviously the Wii can't handle a day/night cycle, especially if it's determined on the fly by the user. *cough*Xenoblade*cough*  ::)

Quote
Why is the game pausing every time I pick up a scrap of whatever for the upgrade system that seems totally pointless?

See my earlier rant about how Nintendo thinks the players are stupid.  I'm sorry, but there's a difference between being "accommodating to new players" and "talking down to them", and more often than not Nintendo sides with the latter.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 01:13:12 AM by broodwars »
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Offline Enner

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2009 on: November 26, 2011, 04:05:23 AM »
7 hours in. Everything is coated in a layer of bad design.  Flying is frustrating.  Everyone talks too much and says NOTHING of interest.  Every NPC is annoying and just doles out the most pointless, asinine tasks.  How come I can't fly at night?  Where is the F_ing minimap?  How come I can't access the beacon and move it whenever I need to?  WHERE IS THE F__ING MINIMAP?  How come i have to jump off a specific point to be able to call my bird? GTA 3 was more limited by the ps2's tech and it had a huge open world (which SS doesn't have) with seamless integration of MULTIPLE vehicles and on foot portions let alone how much GTA SA did on the PS2 what... 7 years ago?

There are far too many poorly done, disjointed pieces to this and none of them are interesting and none of them are fun.  Combat is waggle +.  Outside of the music, everyone that made this should be banned from ever working in the videogame industry again.  This is Nintendo's Chineese Democracy.  Bloated and masterbatorial.  Where is the fun?  7 hours in and I've yet to find it.

Flying takes some getting used to. I've played a lot of the flight mode in Wii Sports Resort so that helped in reminding me in Skyward Sword that you have to quite steady with the Wii Remote. A quick up-then-down motion is needed to flap the bird's wings so you can't be lazy about it. I've found that you don't really need to flapping all the time unless you need to gain altitude (which you need to flap for). So far, it doesn't seem significantly faster to flap the wings constantly. I'm early in the game and the flight mechanics are satisfactory.

The map beacon has the annoyance of requiring to retrieve it in order to set in a new position. Sort of like how in Smash Bros. Melee (iirc) you needed to pick up the character puck in order to select a new character. Sad thing is that Brawl let you press B to retrieve the puck.

Dialog and quests I have nothing to argue against with at this time.

Minimap? Not able to call the bird at will? Ha! You have to be more in-tune with your inner Japanese gamer and be able to memorize maps and only call the bird where the game lets you.
....
A mini-map at all times is what I expected and would've helped. Interface does look nice a clean in Pro or Light mode. It's odd that you have to jump and fall in specific places and specific manners in order to call the bird.


EDIT:

The lack of minimap is a symptom of a larger problem that encompasses this game--nothing, NOTHING is designed well.  everything takes at least a few more button presses, a few more minutes than it should.  The game has NO flow.   Fi is part of that.  Endless, un-skipable exposition is part of that.  The disjointed world is part of that.  Yes, pausing every few minutes isn't difficult, but it would be unnecessary if things that worked well were kept in the series.


Look at the town.  How come I can't jump off wherever and call my bird... or why doesn't my bird just show up when I'm at Y coordinate under the island?  Why can't I leave at night?  Why am I wasting any time running back to my bedroom so I can select it to be daytime?  Why is the game pausing every time I pick up a scrap of whatever for the upgrade system that seems totally pointless?


Everything feels anti-intuitive and massively user unfriendly. 


Also, Zelda 1 had a minimap.  This isn't a return to it's roots (since it's roots were basically Gauntlet with a dose of RPG) this is disappearing up one's own ass.


I would say the game is designed in the an odd and (old?) Japanese manner. Feel free to call such styles not well as I wouldn't blame you.


I wouldn't say the game has no flow. I think it is more apt to say that the game has a slow flow. Glacial, if your shoulder is feeling particularly icy. The slow flow exemplifies itself in how pressing A just speeds up dialog rather than displays it all at once. When I let the dialog go by itself, it can be a bit charming to see how the display speed is used to inject some personality to the text.


With some other video games being accused of appealing too much to those who can't hold their attention for long, it's interesting to see a game that goes far in the opposite direction in aspects of its presentation.


As for the hand-holding, Nintendo does lay it on in a thick and tiring manner.


On top of all the other obvious padding this game showcases on a by-hour basis, I just don't understand how this game took five years to make.  I really don't, especially since the game world is so small you could probably fit it all inside a handful of Xenoblade's larger maps.  If you stripped away all the re-used encounters and blatant padding with fetch quests and pointless errands, this game would be around 20 hours long.  I'm around 40 now, which I wouldn't mind if that was 40 hours of new experiences, but it's not.  And why is this game so small and the assets so few?  It's a AAA Nintendo flagship game, with presumably all the time and money in the world dumped on it.


  This is getting ridiculous, and it's a shame because when the game isn't playing "keep away" with the story it's really good.  But every time I start to get invested in this game and having a great time, the designers pull the rug out from under me.


Well, I may have took 5 years but I doubt they kept even half of what they made in that time. Maybe Nintendo feels pressured with Zelda to provide a long experience no matter the cost. The worse thought is that they convinced themselves that it's okay to reuse areas and applying minor tweaks makes them interesting again. As for the time and money comment, I first and foremost trust Nintendo to be cheap on their end no matter the situation.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 04:27:03 AM by Enner »

Offline Snake-Arms

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2010 on: November 26, 2011, 10:24:25 AM »
Played this game for the first time a few nights ago.  From my limited time with the game I can already see why the controls are so praised.  They are smooth like buttah.  Too bad I dun sold my Wii.


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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2011 on: November 26, 2011, 01:28:11 PM »
Still haven't gotten much of a chance to play the game, but I am at the second temple. So far so good, I really enjoyed the first boss battle, it was challenges and unique. The sword controls are fantastic, and the game is hardly a "waggle fest" especially now. The day/night cycle in Skyloft is something I actually like, it is nice to be able to lock the day or night in until you are done.


Really I have no complaints about the controls at all, everything has worked extremely well. Funny enough my main complaint with the controls is the archaic auto-jumping system that is still in the series. I'd prefer something a bit different. The story and characters have been entertaining so far, and I can't wait to see the game evolve over time.
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Offline Enner

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2012 on: November 26, 2011, 02:14:41 PM »
The auto-jumping system being archaic? Nearly the same system is in use in Batman: Arkham Asylum and the Assassin's Creed series. Typing of Assassin's Creed, Link has learned an extra step or two from Altair and Ezio when dashing in to a wall.

Offline Adrock

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2013 on: November 26, 2011, 02:50:35 PM »
Just because it's used in other games, doesn't mean it isn't archaic or a different way couldn't be better.

Offline broodwars

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2014 on: November 26, 2011, 05:30:03 PM »
I'm fine with the auto-jump in Zelda, although I kind of wish it was tweaked a bit to be more like Enslaved's version (where the character just wouldn't even attempt a jump off a platform unless there was ground to land on).  To me, there's no point putting a jump button into Zelda (or Batman) unless you're going to make it a platformer, where you can really take advantage of that extra mobility.  But there's a minimal amount of jumping in Zelda (most of your movement is running or climbing), so it doesn't bother me that I don't control it.  I do think it is a little less forgivable in Assassin's Creed, though, since that does have a lot of platforming and jumping across rooftops and ruins.

Now, if Nintendo were to design the next Zelda with a lot of twitch platforming, I'd certainly want the freedom afforded by a jump button.  But for right now, the controller's really tapped-out on buttons as it is so there's really no place to put it and it's not really a necessary feature right now.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 05:32:30 PM by broodwars »
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Offline marty

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2015 on: November 26, 2011, 09:21:34 PM »
I'm not going to suggest not putting in a minimap or compass is somehow an eastern thing.  It's a bad design thing.  Flying around the landmark-free sky without a compass is bad design.  Having beacons that you can't readily see is bad design.  Yeah, I can get used to bad design, but that doesn't change the fact that it IS bad design.  Someone at Nintendo should have screamed in the designers ears until these sorts of things are sorted out.  There is no excuse for these things and calling it Japanese seems insulting to every Japanese person that didn't work on this game. 

anyways. past the 3rd dungeon.  Still too much padding and very little actual game.

Offline alegoicoe

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2016 on: November 26, 2011, 10:28:04 PM »
Am 25 hours deep into the game, and i like it alot, although the controls give some trouble specially with the harp, its nothing  to serious.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2017 on: November 27, 2011, 12:59:23 AM »
I'm fine with the auto-jump in Zelda, although I kind of wish it was tweaked a bit to be more like Enslaved's version (where the character just wouldn't even attempt a jump off a platform unless there was ground to land on).  To me, there's no point putting a jump button into Zelda (or Batman) unless you're going to make it a platformer, where you can really take advantage of that extra mobility.  But there's a minimal amount of jumping in Zelda (most of your movement is running or climbing), so it doesn't bother me that I don't control it.  I do think it is a little less forgivable in Assassin's Creed, though, since that does have a lot of platforming and jumping across rooftops and ruins.

Now, if Nintendo were to design the next Zelda with a lot of twitch platforming, I'd certainly want the freedom afforded by a jump button.  But for right now, the controller's really tapped-out on buttons as it is so there's really no place to put it and it's not really a necessary feature right now.

That is primarily what I mean. I'd like it to be a bit less finicky. The little platforming there is, can be aggravating if you don't have the camera lined up perfectly with the object you are jumping to. It isn't horrible, I just feel it could be implemented better.

I am interested (in a "how much do the controls suck" way) in getting the harp.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2018 on: November 27, 2011, 01:02:28 AM »
I am interested (in a "how much do the controls suck" way) in getting the harp.

The controls are fine for the harp.  The harp just completely sucks as a Zelda musical device since there is absolutely no correlation between what you do on the harp and the song you end up with at the end.  It just feels so obviously tacked-on and pointless.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 01:05:46 AM by broodwars »
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Offline Enner

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2019 on: November 27, 2011, 02:34:14 AM »
I'm not going to suggest not putting in a minimap or compass is somehow an eastern thing.  It's a bad design thing.  Flying around the landmark-free sky without a compass is bad design.  Having beacons that you can't readily see is bad design.  Yeah, I can get used to bad design, but that doesn't change the fact that it IS bad design.  Someone at Nintendo should have screamed in the designers ears until these sorts of things are sorted out.  There is no excuse for these things and calling it Japanese seems insulting to every Japanese person that didn't work on this game. 

anyways. past the 3rd dungeon.  Still too much padding and very little actual game.

Grand beams of light and the only major land mass in the sky aren't landmarks?

I'm not suggesting the lack of a mini-map or compass is an eastern design style. Actually, Japanese games has mini-maps and compasses as often as western games.

The sky is so sparsely populated and all locations of importance clearly marked or visible that not having a mini-map or compass isn't much of a detriment to navigating it. Beacon's can be a bit finicky in the sky or on the surface. I've had one occurrence where I set a beacon in the sky and not be able to see it. Other than that, I've found Pumpkin Island, Bamboo Island, and Fun Fun Island just fine. Within the relatively closed confines of the surface areas, using beacons can be difficult. Especially so when you have to remember to retrieve the beacon in order to set it someplace else. Early on, the surface and the dungeons seem to be straight-forward enough to not really require a mini-map or beacons.

I recently wrapped up the 2nd dungeon and am liking the game so far. I'm not having as much trouble with bomb rolling or throwing as I've heard other people have. I just have to remember that the game responds best to big movements and responds poorly to small ones.  I assume the rescue of three NPCs and the key separated in to five pieces is a sign of things to come.

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2020 on: November 27, 2011, 04:50:34 PM »
I haven't mentioned this but I can respect the women of Skyloft...  Though I can't add much I'm at the 4th Dungeon and haven't touched the game in two days been playing a beta and Skylanders...
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2021 on: November 27, 2011, 05:03:29 PM »
Any tips on defeating the Pyro Fiend boss in Earth temple?

Offline broodwars

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2022 on: November 27, 2011, 05:07:08 PM »
Any tips on defeating the Pyro Fiend boss in Earth temple?

Treat him like a Dodongo, only you do the chopping later in the fight after his armor is fully destroyed.
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Offline Caterkiller

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2023 on: November 27, 2011, 06:07:09 PM »
Loved the 4th boss. I remember seeing it, or something like it in trailers thinking it was terrible looking. Not only did it look cool, the way to defeat it was awesome! Glad to have a bit of WW in there. Easy boss though.

The hardest boss so far was the mini boss skeletor with 4 arms. Dude took away 2 hearts with every hit!
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
« Reply #2024 on: November 27, 2011, 07:55:18 PM »
so when enemies die do they drop weapons like in WW?  that was missed in TP
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