Topic: RetroActive Game #4 Poll

[vudu]

There's a reason I didn't include any GameCube titles this time.

So you admit the only way to keep GameCube and/or N64 games from winning the poll is to not put them in the options?

The demographics of the site are skewed towards people who first got into gaming during the N64/PSX generation (or even the GCN/PS2/Xbox gen.).  You're not going to get very much support for NES or SNES games (not to mention TG-16 or NEOGEO) unless they're huge games that the majority of us have all played before--the Marios, Metroids, Zeldas, etc.

vudu, your logic is... illogical.  Why would you want to vote for the game that's already winning, just because it's already winning?

That's not what I meant.  Perhaps my post was poorly worded.  Let's use an example to clear things up.  I'm going to simplify things to make it easier to explain.

Suppose you have 10 people who are going to vote for their choice of 3 games--Super Mario Bros 3, Super Metroid, and Ninja Spirit.  5 of those people have no interest in playing (or hearing about) SMB3 (played it to death, hate Mario, whatever reason).  The other 5 have no interest in Super Metroid.  Most of these people don't have any prior experience with Ninja Spirit--they might be open to it, but they don't know enough about it to commit.

If votes can't be changed (and can't be viewed until after voting) the first group is going to all vote for Super Metroid and the second group is all going to vote for SMB3.  No one is going to vote for Ninja Spirit.  Why?  Because group A wants to make sure that SMB3 doesn't win and group B wants to make sure Super Metroid doesn't win.  The best chance of each group getting their way is to select the game they feel has the best chance of beating the game they don't want.

The result is RetroActive will be stuck playing all the big games that have already been played numerous times in the past and discussing all the big games that have already discussed to death on the Internet.  I didn't mean you'll be playing the same game every week--I meant every week you'll play a game that you most likely played before.

The only way you'll be able to avoid this is to influence the results by selecting which games are up for vote.  Personally, I'd prefer if you just selected which game will be played every week instead of the current method.

[TJ Spyke]

Even though I would love to hear you guys talk about Secret of Mana, I think it would be interesting to hear you guys talk about Cho Aniki (even if it is not as homoerotic as the later games in the series).

[Stratos]

There's a reason I didn't include any GameCube titles this time.

So you admit the only way to keep GameCube and/or N64 games from winning the poll is to not put them in the options?

The demographics of the site are skewed towards people who first got into gaming during the N64/PSX generation (or even the GCN/PS2/Xbox gen.).  You're not going to get very much support for NES or SNES games (not to mention TG-16 or NEOGEO) unless they're huge games that the majority of us have all played before--the Marios, Metroids, Zeldas, etc.

vudu, your logic is... illogical.  Why would you want to vote for the game that's already winning, just because it's already winning?

That's not what I meant.  Perhaps my post was poorly worded.  Let's use an example to clear things up.  I'm going to simplify things to make it easier to explain.

Suppose you have 10 people who are going to vote for their choice of 3 games--Super Mario Bros 3, Super Metroid, and Ninja Spirit.  5 of those people have no interest in playing (or hearing about) SMB3 (played it to death, hate Mario, whatever reason).  The other 5 have no interest in Super Metroid.  Most of these people don't have any prior experience with Ninja Spirit--they might be open to it, but they don't know enough about it to commit.

If votes can't be changed (and can't be viewed until after voting) the first group is going to all vote for Super Metroid and the second group is all going to vote for SMB3.  No one is going to vote for Ninja Spirit.  Why?  Because group A wants to make sure that SMB3 doesn't win and group B wants to make sure Super Metroid doesn't win.  The best chance of each group getting their way is to select the game they feel has the best chance of beating the game they don't want.

The result is RetroActive will be stuck playing all the big games that have already been played numerous times in the past and discussing all the big games that have already discussed to death on the Internet.  I didn't mean you'll be playing the same game every week--I meant every week you'll play a game that you most likely played before.

The only way you'll be able to avoid this is to influence the results by selecting which games are up for vote.  Personally, I'd prefer if you just selected which game will be played every week instead of the current method.

I voted for Ninja Spirit...
Then again I don't care as much which game is picked, there has yet to be one in the polls that I am revolted by and I don't think there has yet to be one nominated that I am opposed to playing either.

[NovaQ]

Even though I would love to hear you guys talk about Secret of Mana, I think it would be interesting to hear you guys talk about Cho Aniki (even if it is not as homoerotic as the later games in the series).

Haven't they done this a few times already on the RFN podcast? Well, Lindy has, at least.

[TJ Spyke]

They have touched on it briefly, but have never gotten really hands-on with this hard game that really stands up erect among Virtual Console games (yes I did try and get and get as many innuendos in that sentence).

[Jonnyboy117]

I believe in keeping this feature semi-democratic, since we are asking you listeners to play along with us.  Trust me to keep choosing interesting games among the suggestions, and I'll trust you all to vote for the game you are truly most interested in playing and hearing about.  As I've said before, games that don't win will eventually rotate around to appear in another poll, where the dynamic could be totally different.  I think our discussions so far have been really interesting, and I expect they'll continue to be so as long as we are choosing from a good set of games and people actually participate and contribute their thoughts on the games.  If things get stale, I'll consider revamping the selection process or something more drastic, but the voting process seems to be working just fine so far!

By the way, maybe Luigi's Mansion and Eternal Darkness both won because people thought they would elicit the best discussions.  It's too small a sample size to make inferences about platform bias.  I have no problem talking about GameCube titles, anyway.  The reason I avoided GC in the current poll is not because I think the platform automatically dominates, but because I wanted to enforce some variety.  I'd do the same if we had multiple NES/GEN/TG-16/etc. games in a row.

[Armak88]

hmmm, I've been meaning to pick up SoM on VC for some time now. I don't think I'm going to vote, but if SoM wins I'll buy it and play along. I've never played it before, so I'm curious, especially since I played a fair number of RPG's on the SNES.

[D_Average]

Man...Waverace isn't going to win this one, bummer.

[NWR_Neal]

Go Cho Aniki Go!
It still has a chance!!!!

[Stratos]

Go Cho Aniki Go!
It still has a chance!!!!

To what, place second? SGNG and Wave Race seem to be in hot competition for that spot. If SGNG places second again I may consider just voting for it next week. That game has been quite tenacious in the polls.

[NWR_Neal]

Go Cho Aniki Go!
It still has a chance!!!!

To what, place second? SGNG and Wave Race seem to be in hot competition for that spot. If SGNG places second again I may consider just voting for it next week. That game has been quite tenacious in the polls.

I was being a bit facetious....

[Stratos]

Go Cho Aniki Go!
It still has a chance!!!!

To what, place second? SGNG and Wave Race seem to be in hot competition for that spot. If SGNG places second again I may consider just voting for it next week. That game has been quite tenacious in the polls.

I was being a bit facetious....

oh...
I guess I'm a bit gullible because I read your post and immediately scrolled up to see what the current standings were. 
Cho Aniki would be a pretty big upset at this point.

[NWR_Neal]

Go Cho Aniki Go!
It still has a chance!!!!

To what, place second? SGNG and Wave Race seem to be in hot competition for that spot. If SGNG places second again I may consider just voting for it next week. That game has been quite tenacious in the polls.

I was being a bit facetious....

oh...
I guess I'm a bit gullible because I read your post and immediately scrolled up to see what the current standings were. 
Cho Aniki would be a pretty big upset at this point.

I still have hope...MAN-BEAM hope.

[Stratos]

Go Cho Aniki Go!
It still has a chance!!!!

To what, place second? SGNG and Wave Race seem to be in hot competition for that spot. If SGNG places second again I may consider just voting for it next week. That game has been quite tenacious in the polls.

I was being a bit facetious....

oh...
I guess I'm a bit gullible because I read your post and immediately scrolled up to see what the current standings were. 
Cho Aniki would be a pretty big upset at this point.

I still have hope...MAN-BEAM hope.

On the next poll it is on you should dispense with the title and just name it "The NAM-BEAM Game!" That would be a sure fire winner.

[NWR_Lindy]

I don't think my vote will surprise anybody.

If only there were more of the Cho-Aniki games on VC...we could do a Cho-Aniki theme week.

[Stratos]

I don't think my vote will surprise anybody.

If only there were more of the Cho-Aniki games on VC...we could do a Cho-Aniki theme week.

It makes me wonder, if enough of us D/L certain games, could it boost sales enough to encourage companies to bring over sequels? If the feature grows and we get several dozen people D/Ling a game it could help get publishers attention.

Also, wow at Cho Aniki's boost in popularity. If it gets another surge like this it could pull that major upset. It may already win the return ticket.

[NovaQ]

In case anyone is still wondering which game to vote for (vote Secret of Mana), here are the possible discussion questions I came up with in my nomination for SoM:

1. What happened (has happened) to the Mana series? SoM seems to be the most celebrated entry of them all. Why haven't any of the newer games garnered as much praise? Are there any great post-SoM game that simply haven't received enough recognition?

2. Could a more straight-forward sequel to SoM be successful now? Would it be a good fit for Wii? If so, how (3D or 2D, online or offline, split-screen or single-screen, etc.)?

3. Are there any games as of late that have carried SoM's torch, so to speak (similar gameplay qualities but in 3D)?

4. SoM does a fine / functional job of handling multiplayer for an ARPG and, aside from extra controllers, doesn't require any additional hardware or peripheral purchases (anymore). SquareEnix's more recent foray into multiplayer ARPGs, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, mostly does - or at least is compromised by such needs. (Except for My Life as a King and the upcoming Crystal Bearers, all of the titles require additional hardware, like multiple DS', to be fully enjoyed. Echoes of Time for Wii has oddly cramped screens and DS graphics so... blah.) Anyway, should SquareEnix favor the SoM model of handling multiplayer ARPGs in the FFCC titles?

(5. Why did SoM's direct sequel, Seiken Densetsu 3, never come out for non-Japanese SNES'?)

I mistook the voting deadline as this past Thursday and downloaded SoM thinking it had already won. A friend and I started playing it yesterday and we're possibly having more fun than when we played it in our childhoods. If you have at least one other person to play with (and maybe even if you don't), you should vote SoM!

[vudu]

Secret of Mana has been discussed to death.  If you want to listen go a good Mana podcast, check out Episode 23 of Retronauts where they discuss the entire series.

How about picking a game we haven't all played multiple times?

[NovaQ]

Secret of Mana has been discussed to death.  If you want to listen go a good Mana podcast, check out Episode 23 of Retronauts where they discuss the entire series.

How about picking a game we haven't all played multiple times?

Well, Eternal Darkness is a title that practically begs for multiple play-throughs, and there was still enough interest in it to be RetroActive game #3. As for SoM, I may be an odd case, but I only played one previous game file before the one I started yesterday and never finished that previous game. I wasn't able to play it very regularly that time, and my childhood friend and I kept having trouble remembering what we were supposed to do. As long as I finish it this time (and I suspect I will), it will be my first time through the whole game.

And while there are other podcasts about the Mana series (and surely Mana fan forums to peruse and post in), a discussion of the game/series by the RFN crew will have its own unique spin on it that I'm looking forward to hearing.

That all said, if I had a second vote, I'd use it for Ninja Spirit. I hope it makes it to another round so we all have a chance to play it. We just played a lesser-known 2D sidescroller several weeks ago with Dynamite Heady, though, so I can wait a while longer to play NS.

[IssunZX]

My vote ended up going towards Secret of Mana. It's one of those games I downloaded but actually haven't played yet. I'd like to get into it though (since I loved Seiken Densetsu 3... which I would love to see an official English release of... wouldn't we all?).

[Jonnyboy117]

I played most of SoM back in the 90s, but I never owned it until VC, and I've never actually played it from start to finish.  If it wins the poll, I plan to try some co-op, since I played it alone the first time.

[Mop it up]

I've never played Secret of Mana. I own Secret of Evermore though, and I haven't played that either.
However, I can't bring myself to pay for a download, and the original cartridge costs too much for a game which doesn't look like something I'd enjoy. Unless I can somehow convince you to switch to Secret of Evermore instead, unfortunately I won't be able to participate in the retroactive discussion yet again. 

[BeautifulShy]

Mop_it_up couldn't someone just gift it to you?

[Jonnyboy117]

Sorry Mop, we aren't going to cater to your bizarre anti-downloadism.

[Mop it up]

Maxi: I wouldn't ask anyone to do that (here or otherwise) because I doubt I could return the favour.

Jonny: I don't see what's so strange about not liking downloads. Settling for a download over the original would be like if I had asked for a Guinness and received a Budweiser instead. Why should I pay for watered-down piss in a bottle?