Topic: PUNCH OUT!!

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

k.

[Ghisy]

Just got the US version off Ebay for 29 euros, shipping included. It's new so I guess it's not a bad deal.

[Mop it up]

That's no secret, that's useless game design.  Why make some outlandish connection between the opponent character and GENERIC BACKGROUND ACTIVITY?

Because sometimes developers like to slip weird things into their games and see if anybody notices. Remember the cheese in Perfect Dark?

They're quickly becoming the new Camelot.

That comparison makes me sick. Scum like Next Level Games are nothing compared to Camelot.

[NWR_pap64]

That comparison makes me sick. Scum like Next Level Games are nothing compared to Camelot.

I know you didn't like Mario Strikers Charged AND its radical take on the Mario universe. But its unfair to call them scum, especially since they did an AMAZING job with Punch-Out and brought back to life a franchise nearly forgotten by its parent company.

Did you even play Punch-Out on Wii or are you letting your hate of the company keep you away from a solid game?

[Mop it up]

I guess I am being unfair, though I still believe that anyone who can take the Mario universe and turn it into... THAT atrocity deserves to be slapped. They shouldn't be allowed near the Mario franchise ever again.

They seem suited for Punch-Out!! though, that kind of attitude and crudeness better fits a boxing game. The game looks solid for what it is but I still don't think it's something I'd be into, so it is on my "will buy when cheap" list. And that's a long list so it could be a while...

I didn't manage to convince my brother to buy it so I haven't been able to try it.

[NWR_pap64]

OK now that's better now.

You have to agree, of course, that NLG can make games with lots of character and energy. They also know how to load a game with features and extra modes, which is why I think they would be great as Nintendo developers.

If it wasn't for these things Punch-Out Wii wouldn't have been as memorable as it is.

[GoldenPhoenix]

But, but I really enjoyed Mario Strikers!

[Smash_Brother]

I guess I am being unfair, though I still believe that anyone who can take the Mario universe and turn it into... THAT atrocity deserves to be slapped. They shouldn't be allowed near the Mario franchise ever again.

Pfft! It was the Mario universe viewed through the lens of an over-the-top sports game, and it was a LOT of fun.

As for Punch-Out!!, I'm loving the game, but there's one gripe I have with the game: you should never be able to dodge too soon, and this concept would lead into a natural game mechanic.

I don't like how, when the opponent winds up an attack and you dodge it right away, you generally wind up getting hit by it because Mac completes the dodge too soon.

Instead, I would've had it be a reactionary system where, if you dodge in a correct direction quickly (I say "correct" because certain hooks will hit you if you dodge the wrong way), the opponent would immediately unleash the attack, miss and you would be rewarded with a longer period of time during which you could punch your opponent. Take longer to dodge and your opponent will stay stunned for less time, thus rewarding players with faster reflexes with better KO times while still giving slower players a chance to play through the same game, just without breaking any records.

[Mop it up]

It's the wrong kind of energy for Mario Strikers, it makes the game feel cold and mean-spirited. They do have an attention to detail but they also overlooked what makes the Mario universe charming.

Punch-Out!! looks to be pretty feature-full (I'm especially interested in the challenges where you have to KO the opponent with certain conditions) but both of the Mario Strikers games are light on features. Just two main modes, Exhibition and a short Season mode, and few options to toy with between them.

[Mop it up]

But, but I really enjoyed Mario Strikers!

We should play sometime then, I'm sick of everyone who plays the random matches. Everyone these days use the exploits to score.

[NWR_pap64]

I guess I am being unfair, though I still believe that anyone who can take the Mario universe and turn it into... THAT atrocity deserves to be slapped. They shouldn't be allowed near the Mario franchise ever again.

Pfft! It was the Mario universe viewed through the lens of an over-the-top sports game, and it was a LOT of fun.

As for Punch-Out!!, I'm loving the game, but there's one gripe I have with the game: you should never be able to dodge too soon, and this concept would lead into a natural game mechanic.

I don't like how, when the opponent winds up an attack and you dodge it right away, you generally wind up getting hit by it because Mac completes the dodge too soon.

Instead, I would've had it be a reactionary system where, if you dodge in a correct direction quickly (I say "correct" because certain hooks will hit you if you dodge the wrong way), the opponent would immediately unleash the attack, miss and you would be rewarded with a longer period of time during which you could punch your opponent. Take longer to dodge and your opponent will stay stunned for less time, thus rewarding players with faster reflexes with better KO times while still giving slower players a chance to play through the same game, just without breaking any records.

YES! I noticed the "dodging too soon" thing as well. Its even more annoying when the opponent fakes an attack then hits extremely fast (like Mr. Sandman who goes BOO 2 or 3 times before he deals a quick blow).

But I always blamed it on the fact that I get to jittery and dodge too soon, not on the game itself. The game gets you so excited and on your feet that you risk the chance of acting "too soon.

[Smash_Brother]

I realize that this was how the original punch out was, but times have changed and having a game that's 100% reflex based is probably a bad idea.

If you look at the numbers, the game has only sold around 470,000. Compare that to the original Punch-Out that sold over 3 million copies. I wouldn't be surprised if this is Nintendo's way of testing the waters to see if truly hardcore games can still sell well or not and they're probably leaning toward "no" at this poiint. :\

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Nintendo's testing nothing.  This game is just another non-casual bone thrown out to do something about the money that leaks from the swimming vault.

It just exists.

[BwrJim!]

470k?  thats WELL...  150K is the marker for a sequel.   I agree with Ningurl69 *huggles, its a bone for fun and a throwback.

[NWR_pap64]

I realize that this was how the original punch out was, but times have changed and having a game that's 100% reflex based is probably a bad idea.

If you look at the numbers, the game has only sold around 470,000. Compare that to the original Punch-Out that sold over 3 million copies. I wouldn't be surprised if this is Nintendo's way of testing the waters to see if truly hardcore games can still sell well or not and they're probably leaning toward "no" at this poiint. :\

First of all, what numbers are you using? If you are using VGchartz numbers then your argument looses strength. Second, if you want to see if the Punch Out franchise has legs you should have checked the numbers for Super Punch-Out as well for comparison's check. Third, did you check if the Punch-Out NES sales numbers are from the year of release or overall lifetime sales? I ask because if your numbers are OVERALL LIFETIME sales numbers then its unfair to use the numbers of a title that's been out for years and is still selling thanks to digital distribution to compare the numbers of a title that's been at retail for 2-3 months.

Assuming the sales numbers for Punch-Out Wii you posted are accurate then its nearing half a mill, which is not bad at all, and its likely that it will reach a million before the year's end in the US (don't forget that the game sales in Europe and Japan as well).

So its unfair to say that the game is a "failure" and an example of why core games don't sell on Wii when its likely the numbers are not correct, one example is a game that's been selling FOR YEARS and the numbers of the Wii title that's been out in retail for two months are good.

And in fear of derailing the thread many core titles on the 360 and PS3 also don't sell as well as expected, even with full marketing behind them. Don't believe for a second that only Wii has bad luck selling certain core titles.

[EasyCure]

Pap, no one here called it a Failure. I think you're missing the point.

[NWR_pap64]

I know that by logic games that appeal to a part of the fanbase will not sell as well as games that appeal to everybody (especially if those games are hyped to no end, like the case with Wii Sports Resort in which Nintendo used a big chunk of New York to hype the game). Just saying that its a tad unfair to compare NES Punch-Out's 3 million vs. Punch Out Wii's 470 K when one titles has been out forever and the other has been at retail for around 2 to 3 months and is still selling.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

It was also a legendary Mike Tyson product.

[EasyCure]

Tyson got Punch-Out, Forman got a grill..

[Stogi]

I'd just like to state this VERY clearly:

Ahem...


THIS GAME IS ABOUT TIMING, NOT REFLEXES.


That is all. Thank you.

[NWR_pap64]

It was also a legendary Mike Tyson product.

Yeah, considering that at the time Mike Tyson was a champion and very few games featured his likeness I am sure his appearance (and his legendary difficulty) drove game sales even further.

[Luigi Dude]

Yeah, considering that at the time Mike Tyson was a champion and very few games featured his likeness I am sure his appearance (and his legendary difficulty) drove game sales even further.

Exactly, people don't seem to remember just how big Mike Tyson was at the time this game came out.  When the original Punch-Out came out back in 1987, Mike Tyson was pretty much the most popular sports star at the moment.  His fights were all major events that people would go crazy over.

This is why it was any extremely smart move for Nintendo to make a deal with him for the original Punch-Out, because without Mike Tysons name attached to it, the original wouldn't have sold half of what it did.  That is how big Mike Tyson was back then.

[NWR_pap64]

Wasn't Mike Tyson also a highly controversial figure despite his champion status? Maybe that also helped spark even more curiosity towards the game.

I would like to know the sales numbers for the Mr. Dream version (that's another thing, the original Punch Out had two versions at retail, one with Tyson and one without him).

[NWR_pap64]

BUMP!

I am loving the hell out of this game. I, however, have one issue with it. In boxing, if in the course of the rounds you knock down your opponent three times then you win. This rule is sometimes ignored in games so the game plays longer. In Punch Out, on the other hand, is messed up.

If you knock down your opponent two times in round one, and then again in round three it doesn't count as a TKO since you have to knock him out three more times in that round. Fair enough, but the issue is that this rule doesn't apply to Little Mac at all! If Little Mac is knocked out two times in round one, he gets knocked out for good in round two.

This is pretty unbalanced since in the original the rule applied to Mac as well.

[BeautifulShy]

I seem to recall that is how it was in the original.