Author Topic: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii  (Read 33527 times)

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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #50 on: May 04, 2008, 04:19:29 PM »
I've actually been playing with the Wiimote/Nunchuk combo, and I kind of wish that had been the "standard" control, because then they could have done something awesome using the pointer for items.

Yes, that would have been very cool. This morning I was playing Online and the game is a BLAST online, so I definitely would gravitate more towards Greg's review which put more emphasis on the online mode. One thing I do agree with Johnny on is that the series needs to be, at the very least, re imagined for the next iteration.
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Offline Morari

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2008, 06:06:19 PM »
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Offline DAaaMan64

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #52 on: May 04, 2008, 07:25:00 PM »
LuigiHann, that is a very good idea.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #53 on: May 04, 2008, 07:50:25 PM »
Hai Guyz, what's going on in here?

Ah, controversial Mario Kart review. Only thing I'll say is I think the whole racing genre needs to be reinvented for consoles, lest it become the next 2D fighter or shmup.

Offline DAaaMan64

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #54 on: May 04, 2008, 08:23:22 PM »
Hai Guyz, what's going on in here?

Ah, controversial Mario Kart review. Only thing I'll say is I think the whole racing genre needs to be reinvented for consoles, lest it become the next 2D fighter or shmup.

Nah racing genre is too generic and Mario Kart actually appeals to girls.
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Offline Darkheart

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2008, 09:04:00 PM »
This isnt controversial, go see the Mario Golf GBA review or the Super Swing Golf review talkbacks, there is some nasty commentary from the peanut gallery in both of those.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #56 on: May 05, 2008, 12:11:04 AM »
Mario Kart Wii makes Brawl look like shareware.
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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #57 on: May 05, 2008, 12:58:44 AM »
Only thing I'll say is I think the whole racing genre needs to be reinvented for consoles, lest it become the next 2D fighter or shmup.

Here here.  Racing games haven't changed much since the 16-bit days.  Look at that Forza Motorsport pack-in for the Xbox 360; lots of shiny cars aside, it's not that different from Rad Racer.  One of the major problems with the last couple of console Mario Karts is that they were designed from the ground up with the expectation that everyone that plays them will be 19-year-olds named Brad that live with a cooperative of like-minded Brads in a dorm environment.

No offense to Brad, should you be reading this.
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #58 on: May 05, 2008, 03:13:42 AM »
For more fun reading about Mario Kart Wii, I recommend Chris Kohler's review:

http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/05/review-mario-ka.html

Let me say up front that I strongly disagree with Chris's review.  It focuses on the battle mode, which I don't think has been good since the first game.  But that's the part he cares about the most, so its problems hurt him more.

The comments on that page are pretty hilarious.  It didn't take long for him to give up on responding to them.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #59 on: May 05, 2008, 04:20:47 AM »
For more fun reading about Mario Kart Wii, I recommend Chris Kohler's review:

http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/05/review-mario-ka.html

Let me say up front that I strongly disagree with Chris's review.  It focuses on the battle mode, which I don't think has been good since the first game.  But that's the part he cares about the most, so its problems hurt him more.

The comments on that page are pretty hilarious.  It didn't take long for him to give up on responding to them.

Except the part where I love MK64's battle mode and cant' stand SMKs. ;)
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Offline Deguello

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #60 on: May 05, 2008, 05:43:27 AM »
Personally, adding some giant floating star bits and a minor musical reference to the long-established Rainbow Road theme does not satisfy as an homage to Galaxy, and feels rather token.

I also think James is right about the AI issue - make them capable opponents that we compete with head to head, as opposed to increasing the difficulty by simply ratcheting up the frequency with which we are struck by items activated by distant, unseen opponents. Funnily enough, I think Jonny has played a Mario Kart game before and is very familiar with how the 1player mode has worked in the past, so if he singles it out for being especially frustrating, it isn't just on a whim - it's made in the context of his experience of the series as a whole.

Ultimately, I'm glad to have GP behind me with everythng unlocked and continue to enjoy racing online, which transcends a lot of these issues from 1 player and will provide a lot of fun for a long time. 

How exactly would you ensure that the AI isn't "cheating?"  Isn't it possible that they get blue shells as frequently as I did when I played?  How could they be more "capable" opponents?  I'm not understanding.  Does he want it like the original where you could just blow out the computer by a million miles?  This is what I mean by "ontological."  You experience being  hit by several red shells and being frustrated, when the very times the player wins are usually won in the same fashion.  Should the computer just roll over and die once we pass them and never use items ever?  Can you prove that they get items with increased intensity, or is that just your experience trying to win at a higher difficulty with less room for error?

And the "homage levels" complaint is also confusing as well parsimonious and nitpicky.  This is the first time I'm ever heard people complain about specific games not being referenced in Mario Kart.  It's sort of odd and feels like complaint fishing.  There is definitely much more variety in levels than I remember in previous Mario Karts, but that's my opinion.

I think Mario Kart's real legacy is being underrated and enjoyed otherwise, to the point that the reviews saying so are meaningless.  We reference previous games with reverence and as examples of "Mario Kart done right," forgetting that those games were given mediocre scores to begin with, including the first that if I remember correctly was called "pointless" by one reviewer.  Only Mario Kart DS avoided this, mainly by being a "normal game" in the midst of the "ZOMG NINTENDOGS IS RUINING THE INDUSTRY NON-GAMES NON-GAMERS CASUALS" mania in late 2005 concerning the DS.

This is sort of reminding me of the end to Pixar's Ratatouille.  Despite being laden with unrealistic expectation and magnified scrutiny, Mario Kart fails to deliver on said unrealistic expectations, like kart skins and Galaxy references, perfect AI in which you are happy to lose to the computer because you know for certain they passed you without any cheating, Online play which was deemed critical for Double Dash, the absence of which was the basis for several editorials, and now deemed unnecessary once "done right," Mario Kart perseveres and becomes the most played game in the generation.  I'd say this one will follow suit and make the criticisms irrelevant.
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Offline Nick DiMola

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #61 on: May 05, 2008, 08:00:38 AM »
Mario Kart DS avoided criticism because the game is damn near perfect. Far and away the best Mario Kart game with the only point against it being the absence of certain tracks for online play.
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Offline Arbok

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #62 on: May 05, 2008, 11:48:46 AM »
Mario Kart DS avoided criticism because the game is damn near perfect. Far and away the best Mario Kart game with the only point against it being the absence of certain tracks for online play.

My opposition with the DS was two fold: imbalance (which is a issue with the Wii, but not to the same degree) and the ability to pick any kart... which made the different characters feel rather moot. Snaking also made online not that fun I suppose.

Plus, it's not exactly ideal for playing with your friends, which for me is what Mario Kart is all about, given the handheld nature.

In the end, I prefer the Wii version over the DS one, and feel it should be hailed as the second best since the phenomenal 64 one. However, it still makes only minor changes to the formula. I think a 7.5 is too low, but transversely feel that anything higher than a 8 range is too generous as well.
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Offline UltimatePartyBear

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #63 on: May 05, 2008, 11:58:41 AM »
Kohler's review fills me with sadness because he confirms my greatest fears.  Of course, the few times I've been able to fill four slots in Battle Mode (one of the reasons I've been looking forward to online Battle Mode), it's never lasted long before my can't-take-the-heat compatriots wanted to go back to driving in circles in random-person-wins mode, so maybe it's not as big a loss as it seems.  Still, I have one friend with the will of the warrior, and we have had some Epic matches.  Even if we can still play one-on-one, and even if the gigantic arenas aren't unplayable that way, the time limit will ruin everything.  We can go a lot longer than three minutes without either of us taking a hit, and on much smaller battlefields.  I have a feeling half of our matches would end in goose egg ties.  It would also tend to discourage combat, since someone with a lead in a timed match has more reason to hide than he does to fight.

I'll probably end up with a copy anyway, since some friends of mine have already asked me to play, assuming I'd have it day one.

There have been countless unique and interesting areas in a variety of Nintendo games that include series other than Metroid/Zelda. But if we want to look at those, how about Hyrule Field or Kakariko Village, and for the Prime games, how about a "best of" level for each Prime game where you are traveling through the various areas seen in each Prime game.

If I ever see Link driving a magically-driven kart through Kakariko, I will kill you and bury your body with the E.T. cartridges where no one will ever find you.  Fair warning.  ;)

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #64 on: May 05, 2008, 12:00:41 PM »
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #65 on: May 05, 2008, 12:19:20 PM »
Mario Kart DS avoided criticism because the game is damn near perfect. Far and away the best Mario Kart game with the only point against it being the absence of certain tracks for online play.

MKDS was a great game but the lack of Battle Mode online hurt it IMO.
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Offline Nick DiMola

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #66 on: May 05, 2008, 12:22:21 PM »
Mario Kart DS avoided criticism because the game is damn near perfect. Far and away the best Mario Kart game with the only point against it being the absence of certain tracks for online play.

MKDS was a great game but the lack of Battle Mode online hurt it IMO.

I guess I can see that hurting it a bit, personally I'm not a big battle mode fan anyway, so it had little to no impact on me.
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Offline Mario

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #67 on: May 05, 2008, 12:46:12 PM »
Mario Kart DS does only one thing better than Mario Kart Wii and that's have a map screen showing everyone's items, adding a huge layer of strategy. Then again that's not really "better", just different. Both games take advantage of their systems, but Mario Kart Wii improves the core gameplay in every single way.

Mario Kart 64 should be punted out of this discussion right now because the game is AWFUL. (LOL opinions suck)

Offline Yoshidious

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #68 on: May 05, 2008, 12:49:24 PM »
With regard to the level themes, I too was disappointed in how generic a significant number of the tracks felt (not that this is something entirely new to the series). MK DS had some tracks that really felt embedded in parts of actual Mario games (such as Delfino Plaza, the Tick-Tock Clock track and Airship Fortress), and satisfied both as racetracks and as creative adaptations of parts of the Mario series proper. There are a few nice moments in MK Wii (like the underwater part of Koopa cape), but too often the themes feel scarcely related to Mario at all (Maple Treeway, Grumble Volcano), or are just glib nods to the Mario franchise like a character name and a giant statue (Luigi and Daisy circuits). This isn't very important in the grand scheme of things, but it adds to the feeling of the game suffering from a lack of creative flair given its many similarities with other games in the series.

To Jeff's other point: my considerable experience with the GP mode (getting all the unlockables requires getting star ranks on almost every cup in every class) has made it very clear beyond any doubt that items are deployed against you with a far higher frequency in 150cc mode than in the lower classes, and this is the primary way in which it is has been made more difficult to succeed in that competition.

We're not talking red shells here either, but rather it's the activation of blue shells, lightning bolts and POW blocks that seems to get increased the most to impede your progress. Also, this increase in item intensity and frequency has been designed to be asymmetrical; if you are in first by a long distance then it is quite likely you will be pummelled with items until you are no longer in first, whereas if you're a few spots back of an AI player you're far less likely to benefit from them suffering the same fate.

So basically Nintendo have increased the difficulty by just changing a few statistical probabilities so that they're weighted against you, and when the consequences of this are felt, it is inevitably frustrating. This is why I desire an increase in difficulty that arises from the AI racers being superior racers rather than the arbitrary dialling-up of item activation. Also, if this were the case you would be motivated to find ways to improve your own performance. In MK Wii, success is a function of possessing sufficient perseverance to try your luck enough times that success is a statistical inevitability, and therefore does not appropriately incentivise improving your racing performance. I'm not exactly sure how this could be achieved beyond just "better AI" (having an item set designed specifically for 1player GPs could help), but that's Nintendo's job, not mine.

Online play throws the shortcomings of GP into stark relief, as the items are clearly not weighted against one player in particular. This makes even the more unpleasant ones far more tolerable, as they don't occur as frequently and you will generally benefit from them as often as you suffer. Human competitors also give an idea of how much better the game could be with smarter AI; online play is just so much more fun than grinding through the GPs.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2008, 12:53:07 PM by Yoshidious »
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #69 on: May 05, 2008, 12:54:16 PM »
Mario Kart DS avoided criticism because the game is damn near perfect. Far and away the best Mario Kart game with the only point against it being the absence of certain tracks for online play.

MKDS was a great game but the lack of Battle Mode online hurt it IMO.

I guess I can see that hurting it a bit, personally I'm not a big battle mode fan anyway, so it had little to no impact on me.

That is fair, for me I'm the opposite, Battle Mode has been my favorite mode since MK64.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #70 on: May 05, 2008, 12:56:11 PM »
The thing is that Mario Kart 64 had many tracks that were unrelated to previous Mario games, I personally think it ads to the game in that it isn't limited to "tracks from Mario games" but instead can create tracks in the spirit of Mario games.
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Offline Mario

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #71 on: May 05, 2008, 12:57:17 PM »
All Mario Karts have those tracks :D

Offline Crimm

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #72 on: May 05, 2008, 01:08:07 PM »
I haven't played MKW, but I've read enough about it to get the gist of the A.I. situation.

Speed Racer: The Videogame (in case you were confused about what it is the publisher reminds you it is a videogame) has good A.I.  If there is a leader (regardless if it is you) the #2 and sometimes the #3 will make moves on the leader.  Sometimes they will fail, because the leader will respond.  Sometimes they succeed and the leader gets: passed, pummeled, or rammed into a wall.  The A.I. reacts to pushes from behind by trying to block the path or avoiding attacks,

The cars and racers race differently, depending on their statistics.  You will usually win, but you will have to fight for it.  You lead isn't likely to be "safe" either.  The game will keep the heat on you WITHOUT using Rubber-band A.I.

Oh, and this game is for the DS.  MKW's A.I. issues are ridiculous if a DS game can have good A.I.
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Offline Mario

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #73 on: May 05, 2008, 01:13:56 PM »
Play the game

Offline Yoshidious

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Re: REVIEWS: Mario Kart Wii
« Reply #74 on: May 05, 2008, 01:19:07 PM »
With regard to the level themes, I too was disappointed in how generic a significant number of the tracks felt (not that this is something entirely new to the series).

All Mario Karts have those tracks :D

Such an astute observation, I shall have to remember that.

The point is MKDS felt like a step forward in creatively utilising the Mario heritage, while still maintaining its own identity by including tracks that were based off previous MK tracks and creating unique new ones like Waluigi Pinball. By comparison, MK Wii seems like a backward step. Also, just because something has precedent, that doesn't mean it's commendable.
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