Topic: Why are people still whining that there aren't enough games?

[NWR_insanolord]

The only way I'd ever forgive Nintendo for stopping production of the WaveBird is if they released the WaveBird 2.0 with the added ability to use it as a Wii Classic Controller for things like Geometry Wars that don't support Cube controllers and a switch that lets you switch the button layout to SNES positions (A=B, B=Y, etc.) so it's usable in games like Super Mario World. This is never going to happen, so this will continue to be one of the biggest mistakes Nintendo has ever made.

[that Baby guy]

That would be awesome.  I'd need at least one of those.  Besides, my wavebird receivers have gone missing, or at least, three of them have.

[EasyCure]

i envy you wavebird using bastards.. i really do

[Mashiro]

I think Nintendo's online store still sells the receivers thatguy =D get em while you can!

[animecyberrat]

The Snes controller seems to be the most copied controller of all time, but when it first came out it was a bit revolutionary, I guess. It certainly had a major edge over the Genesis contrtoller, which was shaped like the batman symbol and only had three buttons. The SNES controller was the first one to have shoulder buttons, and the positioning of the X Y A B buttons was pretty much flawless. There is really nothing about the SNES controller that can be criticized, and that's why future controllers like the dualshock and Xbox controller are really just clones of the SNES controller, but with analog sticks tacked on.

That was the point I was making, Nintendo never stick with a controller design they always try and do something new with each system. I was not bashing them because that is one of their best qualities. Sega tried to do something different with each console but it wasn't always a good thing, Dreamcast pads are the worst designed controllers ever.


To say SNES pad is most copied is a stretch though, the 3DO as well as Neo Geo both used a variation of the Genesis pad, Playstation copied SNES definitely but the Xbox pad was modeled after the DC controller and they mad improvements where they could but it looks, feels and plays nothing like a Dual Shock or a SNES pad with analog sticks. The only thing that remains the same is the button layout but even that is slightly different.

Nintendo maybe came up with the D-Pad first but Sega had a better D Pad and since SNES the Nintendo D Pads have never been that good.

It was revolutionary for being the first to have an analog stick,

Do some research pal, this always get thrown out there but the Atari 5200 had these a full decade before N64 came out. The 5200 pad had flaws but the stick they had worked a lot better than the N64 sticks and lasted a lot longer.

Hey hey hey, I'll defend digital click to my death. Plus, the Wavebird was the first decent RF wireless controller ever - I'd say it was innovative.

I'll give you the standard GC pads because they were great, but the Wavebird took a step back in removing the rumble. Also the Wavebird is an accessory like the Bongos or the Dance Pad, not the main controller. Ok it is more like the 6 Button pads of the Genesis days, an enhancement of the traditional controller but not the main controller everyone had. Still a good controller but nothing innovative.

[Ian Sane]

"The Snes controller seems to be the most copied controller of all time, but when it first came out it was a bit revolutionary, I guess."

I love the SNES controller.  It's the absolute ideal digital controller design.  Damn near any game that only requires digital input works perfectly on it.  But even then it's more of an evolutionary design than a revolutionary one.  The NES controller is largely hidden in the SNES design.  It takes the NES design and adds to it.  The SNES design is also largely hidden in the N64 design.  At this point Nintendo was always building.  It's funny that they didn't have backwards compatibility back then because their controllers always were so compatible with the last generation.

They were slipping a little with the N64 C buttons and losing the Select button.  There's an easy workaround so you could still play any NES or SNES game on the N64 controller with no real issues.  On the Cube though they stopped taking past conventions into account.  The d-pad was literally an afterthought.  The face button arrangement was different.  There was actually one less action button than the N64 and since the Z button was added at developers' request the original design included two less buttons and no d-pad at all.  The Cube controller really isn't ideally designed for any game but Gamecube exclusives.  Even ports from the other current consoles would occasionally run into issues.  The Gamecube is more revolutionary because it's clear Nintendo really didn't care about what came before.

The Wii controller obviously took that philosophy WAY further.  The remote by itself is incompatible with every Nintendo game system except the NES and Gameboy.  Games made for the Genesis in f*cking 1989 can't use the remote for a controller without some annoying workaround.  The large incompatibility with whole generations of videogames seperates it from the SNES controller.  The SNES controller was suitable for virtually every non-PC game ever made at that point with the exception of the Intellivision and paddle controlled games.  So the remote doesn't compare.  With the remote Nintendo was truly starting over and throwing years of controller conventions out the window.  They had never really done that before, though they experimented a bit with the Cube design.

"The 5200 pad had flaws but the stick they had worked a lot better than the N64 sticks and lasted a lot longer."

You are literally the ONLY person I've ever heard say anything nice about 5200 controllers.   The sticks were non-centering.  Everyone complains about that.  That little difference is probably why the N64 changed videogames forever and the 5200 was seen as a major Atari misstep.

[Nick DiMola]

Well to be fair the N64 Controller had the first analog thumbstick. Though the 5200 created the concept years earlier, the thumbstick design was clearly superior and continues to be used today. Even still around the same time Nintendo released the N64 Controller, Sega released the 3D controller with NiGHTs and Sony shortly thereafter released the dual shock.

[NWR_insanolord]

I think Nintendo's online store still sells the receivers thatguy =D get em while you can!

It doesn't, I went to check when I saw his post.

[Kairon]

God I love Nintendo controllers. All of them. Especially the N64 one. But not the VB one...

[DAaaMan64]

The VB one is comfortable, just ugly as shat.

[animecyberrat]

I wasn't defending it as  superior design, but it didn't break as easily and worked far better for arcade games than the N64 stick. The thumb stick was a good idea, but every N64 pad I have ever owned is now broken. They were only good until Mario Party came out.

[Kairon]

The VB one is comfortable, just ugly as shat.

Well, I only tried it once, that's true. Also, Sony stole the prong design from it.

[DAaaMan64]

The VB one is comfortable, just ugly as shat.

Well, I only tried it once, that's true. Also, Sony stole the prong design from it.

LOL they kinda do look similar.

[EasyCure]

The VB one is comfortable, just ugly as shat.

Well, I only tried it once, that's true. Also, Sony stole the prong design from it.

LOL they kinda do look similar.

I remember telling my cousin, who owned the ps1, that the controller was just like the Virtual Boys and he looked at me with a blank stare...

This was the days before i had the interwebs to let me google a picture of what the VB was since, you know, it was SOOooo popular...

[Deguello]

I wasn't defending it as  superior design, but it didn't break as easily

They never worked right to begin with, rat.  At least the N64 pads deteriorated from working.  The Atari 5200 was an absolute disaster and it was its cellphone controller that confused the hell out of the populace and led to Atari's fall.

[KDR_11k]

The SNES controller might have had the NES controller as a subset but how exactly would you have to design a controller so that would no longer be true? The NES controller was so simple that it's almost impossible to avoid similarities.

Adding to the controller keeps backwards compatibility but think about it, how ergonomic would the Wiimote be with four face buttons (where the 1 and 2 buttons are ATM), two shoulder buttons and two analog sticks? You cannot keep adding, not for an interface! That just wrecks ergonomy. It'd also make the Wiimote fail its goal which was extending the market to people who didn't play games before the Wii. Buttons are there and people naturally assume that every button is needed, more buttons make the interface seem daunting and difficult to understand. The Wiimote has a huge number of inputs but they aren't as blunt as sticking more buttons on the top, the motion and pointer sensors are pretty much hidden while providing additional functionality. I'm pretty sure with some smart thinking you could convert most traditional game controls into controls that fit on a Wiimote plus Nunchuk, for most games only a few buttons are used often (and if you use too many often the controls are most likely confusing anyway) with others being stuff like selecting weapons or magic, displaying maps or menus, stuff that can be bound to gestures or hard to reach buttons without making it harder to control.

[animecyberrat]

Mine worked just fine. I never had any problems. SO what if they weren't self centering or whatever the complaint is, I played endless hours of Joust and Pac-Man without any complaints. I think people who complain now are doing so through hind sight, not looking at it from the eyes they had when they were younger. At the time it worked fine.

Now, over 20 years latter sure not so much anymore we have batter technology. I don't think the controller had one impact AT ALL on the system as a failure, the lack of original games played a large part in that along with being released during the great crash *and* having two hardware configurations to chose from at a time when people weren't used to that concept yet had a hand in it's demise along with the continued success and support of the 2600 even after it's release.

[Adrock]

Adding to the controller keeps backwards compatibility but think about it, how ergonomic would the Wiimote be with four face buttons (where the 1 and 2 buttons are ATM), two shoulder buttons and two analog sticks? You cannot keep adding, not for an interface! That just wrecks ergonomy. It'd also make the Wiimote fail its goal which was extending the market to people who didn't play games before the Wii.

I disagree. The Wii's appeal lies in seeing other people play and wanting to try it out. People don't see the buttons immediately. They see someone swinging a remote around. Games like Wii Sports sparingly use buttons, if at all. Instructing someone how to play is extremely simple, relying primarily on motion controls rather than button imput so I don't think extra buttons contracts Nintendo's expanded market goal.

Still, what it comes down to is Nintendo shouldn't be afraid of adding buttons to the controller, but 3rd parties shouldn't feel the need to use every button just because the buttons are there. Assassin's Creed and, to a slightly lesser degree, the Metal Gear series are notorious being button whores.

I'll leave it at that since this debate is pretty old and off topic (then again, we've been off topic for some time now).

[Bill Aurion]

If Ninty's end goal was to only to get people to buy the Wii off of Wii Sports, then yeah, they would have added more buttons...

But no, what Ninty wants to do is to introduce more people to games and then build them up to the more hardcore games (which is what they did with Mario Galaxy, a hardcore game that has a simple control scheme)...The mass number of buttons would scare potential gamers away from these types of games, even if they did purchase it based off of watching others alone...(Also, saying that 3rd parties shouldn't be encouraged to use all the buttons would make things even MORE confusing...Having to use ALL of a smaller number of buttons is far more appealing than using half of many...)

[animecyberrat]

I'll leave it at that since this debate is pretty old and off topic (then again, we've been off topic for some time now).

If we had more games to play we wouldn't be in this predicament now would we

[Adrock]

But forcing 3rd parties to make compromises to their control scheme due to a lack of buttons is not appealing and many of them have made their displeasure known.

And who said anything about a mass number of buttons? Take the A button and make it 2-4 buttons. How is that any more complicated than a DS which has 4 face buttons?

Also, I don't buy the whole "build them up to be more hardcore gamers" thing. Sounds like BS to me. New players aren't "graduating" to more "hardcore" games like Super Mario Galaxy. Gamers are buy games like Super Mario Galaxy. The people who were (re)introduced to gaming through Wii Sports buy crap like Carnival Games to keep playing games that don't require much or any button imput. You want proof? I work at a videostore with a game retailer inside of it. I suggest Super Mario Galaxy to every customer who asks me what good games are on the Wii and they ALWAYS pick crap like Carnival Games. It is the most rented game at my Hollywood Video. They're not building up towards anything....

If we had more games to play we wouldn't be in this predicament now would we

Nice.

[Bill Aurion]

I'll leave it at that since this debate is pretty old and off topic (then again, we've been off topic for some time now).

If we had more games to play we wouldn't be in this predicament now would we

You goons should be out buying and playing the pants off Okami... >=|

But forcing 3rd parties to make compromises to their control scheme due to a lack of buttons is not appealing and many of them have made their displeasure known.

Yeah, well, these are the developers that need a button for every little action, which is hilarious over-kill...Okami is a recent perfect example of using every button fully and effectively EVEN THOUGH it was originally developed for the most button-hog controller of all-time...This so-called "displeasure" results from just plain LAZINESS...

(Also, I never said that Ninty's plan is working, but I don't really buy a single person's accounts of what games sell to what kind of person as evidence of anything in the first place, no insult intended...)

[Adrock]

This so-called "displeasure" results from just plain LAZINESS...

Or DISPLEASURE.....

Not every game can work out perfectly on the Wii remote and if you think so, you're living in a dream world. For example, I thought that Metroid Prime 3 did the best that it could with the Wii remote though it certainly could've been better with more buttons, namely mapping missles to the D-pad and holding the minus button to switch visors.

I don't really buy a single person's accounts of what games sell to what kind of person as evidence of anything in the first place, no insult intended

Take it or leave it. I just can't imagine it being much different elsewhere.... otherwise we wouldn't have the influx of mini-game collections we currently have. Someone has to be buying them or there wouldn't be so many on store shelves.

[animecyberrat]

I would already own it if I HAD MONEY. My problem isnot there are no games to play my problem is I CANT AFFORD them. Before I was in this slump I was doing great spending over $200 a week on video games, I had all the major releases for GC and I had a PS2 and an Xbox plus most of the classic consoles even some of the hard to find games for Saturn. I would LOVE to be out buying every single game Wii has to offer that interests me and believe me theres more than enough that I want to play I just can't.


I know my post was a joke and yours likely was too, but man it is depressing me the more people talk about all these games they're playing and the last game I bought with my own money was Resident Evil 4 Wii edition right when it came out. I was in a good mood now your post has pushed me back into my depression

In the next couple of weeks I will be back to working and I am selling a lot more stuff now than I did last year so things are looking to improve. Wii already is flooded with VC so I am doing my best with as little money as I have. I had to trade GC games in for Wii games and that was depressing in and of itself, just giving all those games to Gamestop.

I haven't played Okami yet but it is one of the games I really, really want to play.

But I promise as soon as I have money I will get Brawl first, then Okami is on the list of games to get right away.   

Take it or leave it. I just can't imagine it being much different elsewhere.... otherwise we wouldn't have the influx of mini-game collections we currently have. Someone has to be buying them or there wouldn't be so many on store shelves.

Around here it's like Wii doesn't even exist, everyone has a 360 and wants a PS3 and talks trash on Wii all day long, so going by my own experiences Wii is a worse dud than GC, and I don't buy that one bit. Not saying your wrong just saying things are different in every town I am sure.

[Ian Sane]

Adding to the controller keeps backwards compatibility but think about it, how ergonomic would the Wiimote be with four face buttons (where the 1 and 2 buttons are ATM), two shoulder buttons and two analog sticks?

Well obviously they couldn't use the current shape and keep everything.  They had to remove funcationality and risk incompatibility to get the shape.  The only way I could see it working any other way is if the remote slid into a traditional controller shell.  For games that require just the remote you remove it from the rest of the controller.  I recall that design was batted around when the Wii was first revealed.  I don't remember if it was official stuff or just speculation.

Though really the remote, nunchuk, classic controller combo is pretty close to perfect.  If they had bundled all three components together there would probably be no control issues at all.  The problem is the classic controller is considered more of a VC controller because it's sold seperately.  Had they included it with each system then it likely would have been treated as what it should be: an alternative for when motion control makes no sense.

It's like how for years it used to be that some games worked best with a keyboard and mouse and some worked best with a controller.  The remote is really just a third option.  It's too different to be an outright replacement and overall standard but is useful enough to be one of multiple standards.