Author Topic: Where are the cell-shading naysayers? (Read 12023 times)

rpglover · « **Reply #25 on:** April 02, 2003, 01:21:04 PM »

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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
No chickens, but pigs, Dan!. They serve the same purpouse as well- wack them enough with your sword and you die.

yeah that is true- they after you wack them enough they chase after you- fast and they take one whole heart away when they hit you
so if you want to die fast in ww- kill a pig
although i do like the cuccoos better though

thepoga · « **Reply #26 on:** April 02, 2003, 02:01:40 PM »

yeah the chickens were pretty funny. BUT now u can chuck a pig from atop a cliff and into the ocean. lol.

Koopa Troopa · « **Reply #27 on:** April 02, 2003, 02:16:41 PM »

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EXACTLY. I've heard people say the the cartoon-look doesn't suit Zelda, but if you look at the designs of older games like Ocarina, Link to the Past, and Legend of Zelda the style was always cartoonish. Nintendo simply made the graphics match the cartoonish style.

Yes.

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(that's anime, NOT cartoons)

I didn't realize there was a distinction to be made... I guess "cartoons" are written better... and have more depth.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #28 on:** April 02, 2003, 02:35:01 PM »

"I didn't realize there was a distinction to be made... I guess "cartoons" are written better... and have more depth. "

So who's judging things NOW. Come on, man- this is not the place for bashing of anything. Supporting one plea on non-flaming only to turn around and flame something yourself is very hypocritical. Animated features can be divided into 3 loose groups to me-
cartoons, which are pretty much humorous and meant to make people laugh--Western animation, which isn't humorous and is more of a serious movie that has been animated--and anime, which is Japanese animation- they are largely serious (although include more comedy than American animation) and are in a distinc anime style.

I can understand if you're not a fan of anime- I wasn't and to a degree I'm still not (I really only enjoy things like DB/DBZ and the Gundam series), but don't bash things simply because you don't like them. That makes you just as childish as anyone saying Zelda is kiddy because it looks like a cartoon. You'd also be surprised by some anime series' depth, or movies, like Princess Monoke. Besies, saying they're poorly written is pretty ignorant of you seeing as the reason the dialouge is stiff is because all anime shown in English has to be translated from Japanese, which rarely produces a perfect English copy.

theaveng · « **Reply #29 on:** April 02, 2003, 05:34:57 PM »

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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
"EXACTLY. I've heard people say the the cartoon-look doesn't suit Zelda, but if you look at the designs of older games like Ocarina, Link to the Past, and Legend of Zelda the style was always cartoonish. Nintendo simply made the graphics match the cartoonish style."

...LoZ was a very early NES game, so I'm sure Nintendo was more focused on getting the graphics to look close to what they were, meaning they had very little room for any kind of "style". A Link to the Past had a pretty cartoony look- not full blown, but the style of the graphics were a big change. The Oracles had a more anime influenced style (that's anime, NOT cartoons), and Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask were both obviously pushing mainly for a realistic style.

I apologize mouse_clicker, but I do not understand your argument? Why make this distinction between "anime" and "cartoon"? Isn't "anime" simply a Japanese word which means cartoon? Anime, cartoon, animation... it all means the same thing: A movie made using hand-drawn frames.

Also, I have to disagree that Ocarina/Masks was realistic. The games had goofy-looking and goofy-acting characters all over the place. The *style* of the game was cartoonish (or anime-ish) even if the graphics were not. Both games had the cartoon/anime-style of humor.

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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
What I find funny is if people say a realistic Zelda would've been better, immediatly someone jumps out with the argument that they don't want Nintendo to do the same thing over and over again and wear it out. Yet those SAME people turn around and claim Zelda's ALWAYS been cartoony and so people shouldn't be mad that it's cartoony now.

Well... I'm not "other people". I have my own thoughts separate and often completely different from them. Please don't put other people's words in my mouth. Thank you.

theaveng · « **Reply #30 on:** April 02, 2003, 05:34:59 PM »

After playing Wind Waker the cartoon (or anime) (or animation)... I seriously doubt I would enjoy a realistic graphics style. No funny-looking people running around. No amusing jokes. No throwing girls against walls and seeing stars around their heads. Basically, it would be extremely boring and not suit Zelda at all.

Troy (Sidles off)

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #31 on:** April 02, 2003, 05:36:30 PM »

"Well... I'm not "other people". I have my own thoughts separate and often completely different from them. Please don't put other people's words in my mouth. Thank you. "

And did *I* say otherpeople = theavenge? No. Don't put words in MY mouth. I was one the subject and adressed something that pissed me off- I never said you personally did that.

theaveng · « **Reply #32 on:** April 02, 2003, 05:47:10 PM »

I apologize.

Now please answer my other questions.

RahXephon · « **Reply #33 on:** April 02, 2003, 08:09:56 PM »

First of all, there is a distinction between anime and cartoon. IIf you go to buy a cartoon in a store, you go to animation. Buy anime at the ANIME section. Video stores ALWAYS keep this seperate. Also onlione. Type in cartoon under AMAZON, you will most likely get no cartoons. Now try anime..... no cartoons. There are far to many points that make an anime an anime. Character is one. Also that things usual flow on a day to day basis, where stuff is remembered. The drawing style is diffrent also, i dont meen look, but the actual techniques used to acheive it. Many things to seperate them. VERY IMPORTANT, THERE ARE MANY THINGS YOU CANT DO WITH REAL GRAPHICS AND STILL HAVE IT LOOK RIGHT. The particles on ROOST ISLAND would be 2d in a 3d real world. Watch ALL of EVANGELION, then tell me anime is just a cartoon, or even better, watch Grave of the Fireflies.

About WW, it is ANIME STYLE. Dont any of you know Hayashi Miyazaki. He won an oscar this year for spirited away. The graphic style are the same almost. And the new WW look is the best thing i have ever seen in a game. If they go back to "more" realalistic, which basically means pixelated characters that move funny and act like lifeless zombies instead of people, then i will be quite angry. Ninetndo has put a new technology to the greayest use it has ever seen. It is perfect. I cant stand to play OoT because WW is too nice looking.
"my friend says, why is the water only one color, i said becuase you are playing an animation in motion. Then he saw the snot kid on Offset and started laughing hysterically."

ThePerm · « **Reply #34 on:** April 02, 2003, 08:27:59 PM »

the only thing really real looking about ocarina was the water, castle, and grass textures. Everything else was very cartoony. The roads, the npcs, link, enemies. You cant say its that the graphics are pixalted, polygonal, and blocky because you could look at similar games at the time like metal gear(although it had some anime character icons in the select transmissions), goldeneye, and final fantasy 8(and thats a bit of a tweener...the characters ahve rerealistic lighting and texturing...proportions,...etc but the faces still have big eyes and pointy chins and colorful hair....but compare 8 to the movie and yeah.....) Anywyas Ocarina was pretty cartoony and i always realised that.

anime vs cartoons
There really is no difference between cartoons and anime. Anime follows more similar styles set by Osamu Tezuka who was actually inspired by disney and betty boop and has devloped in a way that makes for continuous storylines wheras american cartoons always seem to reset with each episode. American cartoons dont follow a similar stlye at all. They pretty mcuh all look different. Most Anime is usually based after a manga(a japanese version of the comic book most commonly in black and white) and very few mangas become cartoons. I really like anime...its a thing that entertains me. I think pretty much they have devloped to be superior to american cartoons because the way their method has allowed hem to get more done. The only series of american cartoons iv seen are disney, loony toons, and the simpsons when i talk about style. Everythign else is just way out there.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #35 on:** April 03, 2003, 02:35:16 AM »

For the distinction between anime and cartoons, just compare Dragonball Z and Loony Tunes. Yeah, they're both animated but that's what their similarities end. Their art style is vastly different, the emotion they're trying to convey is usually different (Loony Tunes is humorous and DBZ is generally serious), the dialouge is vastly different. Maybe where the misunderstanding is is in that I don't view "cartoons" as any animated feature by as cartoony exaggerated and humorous ones in particular. Anime is very different from this.

As for OoT, I guess it's all a matter of perception. I thought nearly all of the locations were realistic and only some of the characters were cartoony (King Zora, the townspeople, that guy on Lake Hylia). I'm not saying the game was ultra realistic, but in my opinion it's not cartoony, either.

theaveng · « **Reply #36 on:** April 03, 2003, 07:46:18 AM »

Okay then. I repeat my comments, but revised:

Zelda was always anime-ish. Goofy characters/ oddbal humor/ strange coloring of faces and hairstyles. Zelda was always anime-ish. Nintendo simply made the graphics match the style.

Troy
TRIVIA: I remember when "anime" was called "Japanimation".

Bloodworth · « **Reply #37 on:** April 03, 2003, 07:59:04 AM »

Heh...well Anime was only called Japanimation in America. Actually...I'm fairly sure that in Japan anything animated, including American works, is called anime. So all this silly bickering is kind of pointless then.

And also, Miyazaki/Studio Ghibli films are on a completely different level. I know people that won't even refer to it as anime.

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #38 on:** April 03, 2003, 02:52:10 PM »

People in Japan must have just called it "imation". . .

While it's a good arguement, and it does make a point, I don't think it really matter if OoT was cartoony or not. WW is cartoony no matter what, and it's still a good game regardless, whether the old ones were similar in style or not.

rpglover · « **Reply #39 on:** April 03, 2003, 03:20:57 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Bloodworth
Heh...well Anime was only called Japanimation in America. Actually...I'm fairly sure that in Japan anything animated, including American works, is called anime. So all this silly bickering is kind of pointless then.

And also, Miyazaki/Studio Ghibli films are on a completely different level. I know people that won't even refer to it as anime.

yeah its so true
and miyazaki's works are pure genius its just not right to call them a cartoon or anime
if any of you have not seen princess mononoke- do it now- you will not be dissapointed
they got many high quality actors and actresses to voice the characters
and the story and animation is so good- its god like
its one of my favorite movies in animation form
also- akira was really good but i dont think he made that one
his new one- spirited away- looks damn awesome- i cant wait to see it
animation movies are just a way to express yourself- as they did with zelda
just because its a different style doesnt mean you have to deprive yourself of it
like zelda- the style is different but the gameplay is still unmatched and almost perfect
anime movies may be drawn but they can be just as good as your regular movies with real actors

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #40 on:** April 03, 2003, 03:57:23 PM »

Princess Mononoke was cool. Cowboy Bebop is the only anime I even vaguely like, and it's rather western and more mature, relatively speaking.

theaveng · « **Reply #41 on:** April 04, 2003, 02:26:47 AM »

theaveng · « **Reply #42 on:** April 04, 2003, 02:26:49 AM »

theaveng · « **Reply #43 on:** April 04, 2003, 02:26:50 AM »

Can you guys please stick to Zelda? There's a separate "general" forum for anime discussions. I wish to discuss Zelda, not Princess Mononucleosus or whatever her name is.

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Originally posted by: theaveng

Zelda was always anime-ish. Goofy characters/ oddbal humor/ strange coloring of faces and hairstyles. Zelda was always anime-ish. Nintendo simply made the graphics match the style.

rodtod · « **Reply #44 on:** April 08, 2003, 03:13:35 PM »

This may be a late post, but just wanted to say this...

The very title of this thread is flame-bait. Don't bash ResidentEvil for thinking WW looks "above average", that's his opinion.

You know what's ironic? The fact that a good deal many of you all hated the look of this game when it was first unveiled, and yet you are now bashing people who behave similarly. I remember that PGC chat during the Spaceworld unveiling. The chat had to be put on hold because so many people were bitching about Nintendo ruining everything, that the graphics looked terrible, and that you'd never forgive Miyamoto for what he'd done.

Well guess what, you bought the game anyway, and it turned out to be possibly the best Zelda ever. Who's complaining now? Maybe people who are able to avoid being hypocritical.

Just my $0.02

GoldShadow1 · « **Reply #45 on:** April 12, 2003, 10:23:37 PM »

I like the style of Wind Waker.. at times. I'm not a huge fan of Link's character design (I'd kill for a cel-shaded version of child Link from OoT instead), and some of the environments seem rather simply colored, like a Flash animation on a web site. Some things, like water and lava and whatnot, are great, and I am a huge fan of the swirling smoke effect. I could seriously see a next-generation version of this game so complex and breathtaking that it makes this game look terrible, while still keeping the cel-shaded style. I would especially like to see more detail in the textures. Still, I can't think of anything that could beat the feeling of sailing to a mysterious destination while dawn peaks on the horizon.

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Author Topic: Where are the cell-shading naysayers? (Read 12023 times)