Topic: Brawl Delayed to February in N. America

[Crimm]

CHALLENGE: Name a AAA Nintendo Title that wasn't delayed.

[Mashiro]

Super Mario 64? =) Launch titles ftw!

[Michael8983]

Does that count? I mean it was an N64 launch title as promised, but the N64 itself was delayed SEVERAL times if I recall.

[Mashiro]

Sure it does, it counts based on technicalities!

[UncleBob]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: UncleBob

So, do you feel cheated when games allow you to push a button to select the same character with a different color costume?  I mean, instead of spending time picking out different colored costumes, they could have spent the time perfecting other aspects of the game, right?

That is a good question, and I'm going to have say yes if the game had other flaws that could have been fixed in the meantime. Now perhaps not a different COLOR costume because that cannot be hard to implement at all, but maybe a complete model change wearing different clothing. While the clones in Brawl were a quick way to shove in a few more characters, their models had to have taken precious time away from refining the game or maybe even adding some new items.

The only problem with this is that the individual(s) who do the character models probably aren't the same ones who would be responsible for doing other things in the game (aside from other in-game designs).  It's not like that team was going to finish up the character models, then go around and start tweaking the physics of the game or something.

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Things were getting back on track until SOMEONE decided to bring it up all over again. Personally I can't stand rapid fans no matter the series, so that is why I get involved.  Besides Pale is the one that got it off track, we were talking about the good ole days when Nintendo delayed stuff compared to the GC era, then Pale responded saying Melee was near perfect, and pap gave his reasons why it wasn't, then Pale said Pap tried to hate the game, along with other accusations that Smash_Brothers started the whole thing, and everyone was following his lead.

That's not quite how it happened and you know it.  However, instead of "recapping" it myself, I'll just let anyone who cares go back and re-read it.

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
I think it's really funny that this thread has twice as many replies as the one about Sonic being in the game.

No one likes Sonic anymore, he has been defiling himself for past several years!

We can agree on that.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: UncleBob

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: UncleBob

So, do you feel cheated when games allow you to push a button to select the same character with a different color costume?  I mean, instead of spending time picking out different colored costumes, they could have spent the time perfecting other aspects of the game, right?

That is a good question, and I'm going to have say yes if the game had other flaws that could have been fixed in the meantime. Now perhaps not a different COLOR costume because that cannot be hard to implement at all, but maybe a complete model change wearing different clothing. While the clones in Brawl were a quick way to shove in a few more characters, their models had to have taken precious time away from refining the game or maybe even adding some new items.

The only problem with this is that the individual(s) who do the character models probably aren't the same ones who would be responsible for doing other things in the game (aside from other in-game designs).  It's not like that team was going to finish up the character models, then go around and start tweaking the physics of the game or something.

Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Things were getting back on track until SOMEONE decided to bring it up all over again. Personally I can't stand rapid fans no matter the series, so that is why I get involved.  Besides Pale is the one that got it off track, we were talking about the good ole days when Nintendo delayed stuff compared to the GC era, then Pale responded saying Melee was near perfect, and pap gave his reasons why it wasn't, then Pale said Pap tried to hate the game, along with other accusations that Smash_Brothers started the whole thing, and everyone was following his lead.

That's not quite how it happened and you know it.  However, instead of "recapping" it myself, I'll just let anyone who cares go back and re-read it.

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
I think it's really funny that this thread has twice as many replies as the one about Sonic being in the game.

No one likes Sonic anymore, he has been defiling himself for past several years!

We can agree on that.

UncleBob doesn't seem to understand what getting the thread back on track means. BTW I did read back, and it was a normal discussion until Pale accused Pap of not being able to like Brawl because of the faults he found in Melee.

[UncleBob]

It's strange how conversations can flow from one topic to another.  If only this board was set up to allow conversations...

It's interesting that you leave out the fact that Pap was the first to bring up anything about Melee.  Pale simply stated "How are you complaining that Melee was rushed? The game was near perfect..." to which Pap replied with a list of complaints, half of which were pretty stupid (Oh noes, there's an uneven amount of trophies!!!1111)  Thus, it seems to me that this train wreck started with Pap making an uneducated comment that Melee was rushed.  Not that he "felt" it was rushed, but that it *was* rushed, something of which I'm sure Pap has no real knowledge of.

[NWR_pap64]

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Originally posted by: UncleBob
It's strange how conversations can flow from one topic to another.  If only this board was set up to allow conversations...

It's interesting that you leave out the fact that Pap was the first to bring up anything about Melee.  Pale simply stated "How are you complaining that Melee was rushed? The game was near perfect..." to which Pap replied with a list of complaints, half of which were pretty stupid (Oh noes, there's an uneven amount of trophies!!!1111)  Thus, it seems to me that this train wreck started with Pap making an uneducated comment that Melee was rushed.  Not that he "felt" it was rushed, but that it *was* rushed, something of which I'm sure Pap has no real knowledge of.

Look, its understandable if you disagree with anything I say regarding Melee. Its such a popular game that people will defend it from its flaws, whether they are apparent or made up. That doesn't bug me at all. Its human nature. However, what DOES bug me is the crap I am getting because I posted valid concerns and complains, like the ones you just mentioned.

You are being a jerk about this. It's a game. Some love it to death, others don't. Learn to deal with it.

As Golden has said already, MOVE ON. Its clear the thread is going nowhere as no one will budge from their opinion.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Stop talking about old has-been games.

[UncleBob]

An uneven number of trophies is a "Valid Concern"?

You posted what you considered to be flaws in the game - that's fine.  However, you've not posted any proof that the game was "rushed", which was your initial claim.  Then, you get all pissy because we ask you to back up your claim.

[Smash_Brother]

I'm pretty sure Sakurai SAID that the game was rushed at one point, but that it was necessary because they needed that Xmas title to push cubes.

They did a good job considering, and my primary complaint about the game wouldn't have changed (that being the speed alienating lesser gamers), but I've beat this argument to death and back.

It doesn't MATTER anymore, though. I'll eat my own legs if Brawl isn't 10X better than Melee in every way anyways. It doesn't matter anymore.

[Pale]

Alright look.  I'm going to end this right here.

Firstly, I did not say everything I got blamed for.

Secondly, i apologize, but for some reason you guys are taking all of my arguments more personally than they were meant.  With any of my posts, ALWAYS assume that I am good natured.  I make it a rule to try not to post when I'm not in a good mood.

Lastly, I wasn't saying all of Pap's concerns weren't valid.  I was saying that they aren't proof the game was rushed.  You guys are using the word rushed as an excuse when I felt I could give some insight into the development process.  All games have timelines.  If you asked any developer after their game shipped if they would like to add something if given the chance, 99% of them would say yes.

Melee was given a similar timeline.  They did what they could in that timeline and came out with an awesome game.  It's completely valid to wish they could have added even more, but trying to blame the developers is just silly.  They aren't to blame because, as some of you have said, the game was still great.

Much of this hits home more for me because I have had clients who have a similar mindset.  We tell them what can get done in a certain amount of time.  They agree.  Then they see the final product, think of things that could have been added to make it better, and get pissy, even though taken as it is, the product reached all of their original goals and came out great.  Basically people can't magically do everything.

So drop it now.  Internet arguments break down when people start getting personal.  That is why we try to heavily structure the rules here around avoiding personal attacks.  Brushing off an argument by calling someone a fanboy is a personal attack.  Apprarently you guys viewed my posts as a personal attack which I apologize for.  Let's move on and try and stay a bit more cheerful in future arguments.  

[Kairon]

Yeah, I agree with Pale. Now, let's forget all our troubles over a generous helping of third party games! MMmmmmm Ninjabread!  

[ShyGuy]

Ninjabread cuts the roof of my mouth something fierce! Godzilla meat, on the other hand, goes down smooth..

[GoldenPhoenix]

Fine I will email this to Pale.

[vudu]

Ban GP; ban her now.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Vudu you really shouldn't be throwing around ban statements, considering you can be one of the if not the most insulting people here!

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I'll ban both of you.

[NWR_pap64]

Like GP before, I decided to just drop this as we are not getting anywhere with this.

[UltimatePartyBear]

Would it stir up any more trouble if I pointed out that the proper way to drop a topic isn't to keep coming back and reminding everyone that you're dropping it?  It turns out that's actually a pretty good way of keeping it going, instead.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: PartyBear
Would it stir up any more trouble if I pointed out that the proper way to drop a topic isn't to keep coming back and reminding everyone that you're dropping it?  It turns out that's actually a pretty good way of keeping it going, instead.

I don't know what you are talking about, you must be imagining things!

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: ShyGuy
Ninjabread cuts the roof of my mouth something fierce! Godzilla meat, on the other hand, goes down smooth..

Godzilla is being put into Smash Brothers Brawl? Sweet!

[Mario]

America is now a PAL territory

[Karl Castaneda #2]

What's all this crap in this thread for? Freaking nerds.

[Mashiro]

See the Smash Bros. thread, blame pale!