Author Topic: The more I think about it... (Read 43343 times)

Mikintosh · « **Reply #50 on:** October 04, 2007, 02:34:36 PM »

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Originally posted by: Mikintosh
Exactly. Also, saying that Snake is breaking someone's neck with that attack is like saying Link is literally stabbing people in the heart with his A move. If the opponent gets up after a few seconds, clearly he wasn't very injured. It's not a "realistic" reaction to if that was attempted in real life, but isn't SSB supposed to be unrealistic?

Read what I said earlier: when Link hits someone with his sword, they bounce harmlessly off. Is this realistic? No, but that's the POINT of SSB. When Snake snaps a neck, he's restraining a character and basically executing them. That's the problem. It's a moment of very realistic violence in the middle of a cavalcade of comic violence.

But how is it an execution if Mario wakes up after a few seconds? That's not realistic at all, and that's my point. I'm not saying it's an uncomfortable idea to put it into the game, but I think they made it tame enough.

Sir_Stabbalot · « **Reply #51 on:** October 04, 2007, 02:34:49 PM »

I do agree with SB here. It just doesn't really fit in well.

Adrock · « **Reply #52 on:** October 04, 2007, 04:24:58 PM »

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And for the record, I hated how Bowser was burned alive in the lava bit at the beginning of NSMB.

I was bothered more by Bowser being Bowser Jr.'s lackey. I friggin' HATE Bowser Jr.

NWR_pap64 · « **Reply #53 on:** October 04, 2007, 04:47:10 PM »

I thought that was weird as well, especially in a light and breezy game like NSMB. And yeah, why is Bowser Bowser Jr.'s lackey? It should be the other way around.

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #54 on:** October 04, 2007, 05:56:12 PM »

I knew it. This game is awful.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #55 on:** October 04, 2007, 06:22:02 PM »

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Originally posted by: Mikintosh But how is it an execution if Mario wakes up after a few seconds?

It's not the question of whether or not Mario "survives" the neck snap. It's the fact that Mario should never be in a game in which his neck is snapped. Same for any other Nintendo character who regularly appears in games which are E or T.

It's no different than the argument of Mortal Kombat's dismembering fatalities not really being fatalities because the character can be played again next round. Mario can get up right away but he was still just executed.

Sessha · « **Reply #56 on:** October 04, 2007, 08:54:15 PM »

I'm still on the fence about this. Nonetheless S_B has the right to his opinion. And I do agree something seems out of place, but I'm pretty sure there won't be an audible snap when the move is executed. If it were Snake's Final Smash and it actually took one of Mario's life I think there would be a reason to raise a bigger stink because that would actually show a reason for death not plummeting over an edge.

I am sure they wanted to keep Snake as true to himself without pushing any boundaries. Although with S_B outcry maybe they put a toe over the line. It's all a matter of opinion. And if your talking about Mario remaining true to his character I don't remember him ever whaling on Peach with a baseball bat but then again my memory's a little fuzzy.

Mikintosh · « **Reply #57 on:** October 04, 2007, 09:44:28 PM »

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
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Originally posted by: Mikintosh But how is it an execution if Mario wakes up after a few seconds?

It's not the question of whether or not Mario "survives" the neck snap. It's the fact that Mario should never be in a game in which his neck is snapped. Same for any other Nintendo character who regularly appears in games which are E or T.

It's no different than the argument of Mortal Kombat's dismembering fatalities not really being fatalities because the character can be played again next round. Mario can get up right away but he was still just executed.

But he gets up instantly. How can his neck be snapped if that's the case? You can't remove the action from its context, or there's no point to discussing it

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #58 on:** October 04, 2007, 10:13:45 PM »

Will Mario make the choking/humping/moaning sounds?

Michael8983 · « **Reply #59 on:** October 05, 2007, 01:54:12 AM »

I think context will make all the difference.

Seeing it in a quick and silent GIF image makes it seem pretty violent.

But I bet that 1) it will have a very goofy sound-effect and NOT bone snapping 2) Mario actually goes into the usual Smash Bros sleeping animation immediately after the move (No, I don't suspect he gets up immediately, I assume this is Snake's answer to Jigglypuffs's lullaby). No one dies in Smash Bros, they get thrown off the stage, and even in stamina mode, they're clearly just passed out and breathing - and fun to play soccer with.

wandering · « **Reply #60 on:** October 05, 2007, 03:54:27 AM »

You think this move is inappropriate, but I think it would be far more inappropriate for HAL to not be true to Snake's character. Snake stealthily executes people, that's what he does.

I also don't think Snake snapping Mario's neck is any more disturbing, or incongruous, than Mario hitting Link over the head with a baseball bat.

Mario · « **Reply #61 on:** October 05, 2007, 04:03:26 AM »

1. Exactly, he shouldn't be in the game

2. It is, because you see things like people being hit with a baseball bat, lasers, explosions etc. all the time in every cartoon ever, so its impact has been minimalised. You don't see neck snapping anywhere, and I really dont think thats "ok" to expose children to (or anyone).

Michael has a fair point though, we'll have to see it while playing the game to judge its real impact, but I dislike the idea no matter how its 'executed' (haha get it).

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #62 on:** October 05, 2007, 06:07:21 AM »

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Originally posted by: Mikintosh
But he gets up instantly. How can his neck be snapped if that's the case? You can't remove the action from its context, or there's no point to discussing it

The entire point of SSB is removing action from context, but that doesn't mean the action still isn't what it is.

Both Yoshi and Kirby have moves which, in their respective games, are lethal but the violence is anything but realistic or gruesome. In those situations, the characters immediately get back up afterwards and they're fine, but it doesn't mean they weren't just swallowed or turned into an egg a second ago.

Mario may get up after having his neck broken, but that doesn't mean is neck wasn't just broken.

Also, yes, Snake breaks necks in his games, but he breaks the necks of NAMELESS GUARDS (or guards named Johnny). The same maneuver used to dispatch nameless guards is better not used on Nintendo's beloved mascots.

I'm also wondering how this move will look when used on actual human-sized characters like Link and Ike. It looks somewhat odd on Mario, but something tells me it'll look a lot more like a neck snap on a human sized character.

Mikintosh · « **Reply #63 on:** October 05, 2007, 09:31:27 AM »

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
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Originally posted by: Mikintosh
But he gets up instantly. How can his neck be snapped if that's the case? You can't remove the action from its context, or there's no point to discussing it

The entire point of SSB is removing action from context, but that doesn't mean the action still isn't what it is.

Both Yoshi and Kirby have moves which, in their respective games, are lethal but the violence is anything but realistic or gruesome. In those situations, the characters immediately get back up afterwards and they're fine, but it doesn't mean they weren't just swallowed or turned into an egg a second ago.

Mario may get up after having his neck broken, but that doesn't mean is neck wasn't just broken.

Also, yes, Snake breaks necks in his games, but he breaks the necks of NAMELESS GUARDS (or guards named Johnny). The same maneuver used to dispatch nameless guards is better not used on Nintendo's beloved mascots.

I'm also wondering how this move will look when used on actual human-sized characters like Link and Ike. It looks somewhat odd on Mario, but something tells me it'll look a lot more like a neck snap on a human sized character.

They have a picture of him doing it on Ike, and it looks about the same. Note with neither Mario nor Ike does Snake turn the head sideways when he does the attack, which is what they do in movies when someone actually breaks someone's neck.

And I'm failing to the see the argument at this point. If it doesn't look like a neck snap, and it doesn't have the results of a neck snap, how can you say it's objectively a neck snap? It's a disabling move, that's it. I honestly don't know how many times I can rephrase this same response, but I'll get out my thesaurus if necessary.

LuigiHann · « **Reply #64 on:** October 05, 2007, 09:59:39 AM »

You have to remember that Snake's appearance and actions in this game are basically a self-parody on both sides. They know that Snake is hilariously out-of-place in this game, so I don't blame them for giving Snake attacks that appear downright bizarre in this context.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #65 on:** October 05, 2007, 07:37:06 PM »

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Originally posted by: Mikintosh They have a picture of him doing it on Ike, and it looks about the same. Note with neither Mario nor Ike does Snake turn the head sideways when he does the attack, which is what they do in movies when someone actually breaks someone's neck.

They have Snake holding him, not breaking his neck.

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And I'm failing to the see the argument at this point. If it doesn't look like a neck snap, and it doesn't have the results of a neck snap, how can you say it's objectively a neck snap? It's a disabling move, that's it. I honestly don't know how many times I can rephrase this same response, but I'll get out my thesaurus if necessary.

That's just it: it DOES look like a neck snap, and I'm sure it'll look even more like one on more human characters.

I reiterate: it's a neck snap, and Snake lowers the body afterwards. I've seen it in MGS many, many times.

There's still very much an argument, unless you can somehow convince me that Mario and other Nintendo characters having their neck snapped is fine and dandy.

It's a completely moot point, though. It's in the game so there really is no point arguing it.

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #66 on:** October 05, 2007, 11:11:07 PM »

It's all right.

Mr. Game & Watch would grab Peach's ass during holds. Quite inappropriate.

tombo125 · « **Reply #67 on:** October 06, 2007, 02:30:26 PM »

In real life, if you hit someone with a baseball bat they will not fly off the ground at all. The fact that in the games that hitting someone with a baseball bat or a sword and they fly away clearly makes the action cartoon like. If someone hits you with a sword, you will not be propelled at all. You will not go anywhere. When Snake snaps Marios neck, it is an accurated description of how it would look in real life. That is where it is crossing the line.

Mikintosh · « **Reply #68 on:** October 06, 2007, 05:54:55 PM »

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Originally posted by: tombo125
In real life, if you hit someone with a baseball bat they will not fly off the ground at all. The fact that in the games that hitting someone with a baseball bat or a sword and they fly away clearly makes the action cartoon like. If someone hits you with a sword, you will not be propelled at all. You will not go anywhere. When Snake snaps Marios neck, it is an accurated description of how it would look in real life. That is where it is crossing the line.

Well, I'd say go back and look at a Bond movie (or if you have the stomach, a Jean-Claude Van Damme flick) and see what it looks like when somebody there snaps someone's neck. Trust me, it doesn't look the same as Snake's attack (again I mention the turning of the person's neck by 90 degrees, which doesn't happen to Mario), and we're just talking about how they do it in movies. I'm sure it's even more different in real life.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #69 on:** October 06, 2007, 06:02:30 PM »

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Originally posted by: Mikintosh
Well, I'd say go back and look at a Bond movie (or if you have the stomach, a Jean-Claude Van Damme flick) and see what it looks like when somebody there snaps someone's neck. Trust me, it doesn't look the same as Snake's attack (again I mention the turning of the person's neck by 90 degrees, which doesn't happen to Mario), and we're just talking about how they do it in movies. I'm sure it's even more different in real life.

Close enough.

I don't believe for a second that Hideo Kojima actually knows how to snap a neck, but that doesn't change the fact that this is what Snake is doing to Mario, if not for the fact that Snake lays him on the ground afterwards just like he does after killing a guard in a MGS game!

I'm through arguing it. I basically wanted to see if anyone felt the same and there are a few people who share the same viewpoint, but in essence, we're all screwed anyway because it's in the game and they likely won't be changing it now.

Mikintosh · « **Reply #70 on:** October 06, 2007, 07:11:38 PM »

This is true, but I actually think stuff like this should be discussed, even if we disagree with each other. If the move does reach the final game, I'm sure the ESRB's gonna be bringing up the same points on both sides. 'Cause even though I don't think it looks too gruesome, I agree that it's very violent, and they might find fault with that in this GTA-concerned gaming world

Mashiro · « **Reply #71 on:** October 06, 2007, 08:04:53 PM »

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we're all screwed anyway

I can only pray on my next trip to a toy store some young child doesn't mimic the move and kill me . . .

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #72 on:** October 06, 2007, 08:27:22 PM »

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Originally posted by: MashiroI can only pray on my next trip to a toy store some young child doesn't mimic the move and kill me . . .

I didn't mean screwed in the sense that kids would learn the move but screwed in the sense that it's in even if we don't want it in.

And I'd be more worried that some massive, sweaty Otaku would try the move on me.

Mashiro · « **Reply #73 on:** October 06, 2007, 08:34:24 PM »

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I didn't mean screwed in the sense that kids would learn the move but screwed in the sense that it's in even if we don't want it in.

Yeah I know =)

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And I'd be more worried that some massive, sweaty Otaku would try the move on me.

That's when you yell "I need an adult . . . I NEED AN ADULT!"

Dirk Temporo · « **Reply #74 on:** October 07, 2007, 09:20:07 AM »

But... Nobody but you and Mario cares if it's in S_B. I mean seriously. It's a game. And the whole argument that "lol Nintendo characters shouldn't appear in a game where they can get their neck broken" is unfathomably retarded. They're VIDEO GAME CHARACTERS. They don't really exist. What happens to them is unimportant and means nothing.

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Author Topic: The more I think about it... (Read 43343 times)